 Poster: A snowHead
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In short, i skied a few times when i was young and recently (last few years) got back into it with my wife (and a few "work" trips...).
I do not really ever have issues on the piste (steepness or ice) and normally go off the side of the piste as i find it more fun and adds some challenge.
The idea of doing a short heli ski weekend is very appealing, but i am not sure i am good enough for it as I have never really tested my ability to ski in very deep and steep powder. I have never gone "backcountry" skiing or touring. Physically i think i am up to it, ~30, fairly fit, lift weights etc.
Any advice?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@rg123, Welcome to SnowHeads 
The short answer is it depends. Heli-skiing is a whole spectrum of levels and snow conditions. Also the definition of heli-skiing differs in Europe and the Americas. In Europe you might get 1 or 2 uplifts followed by long descents, whereas in the America’s you are more likely to get 4-6 run packages.
The operator will offer different packages depending on the groups/client’s ability, so you might go for an experience package which is as much about the flight and scenery as the skiing, whereas an expert package will be about skiing more difficult terrain at speed.
Where are you thinking of going?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@rg123, why do you want to go from dabbling "off the side" to heli-skiing in one hit?
Have you got plenty of $$$$?
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Assuming this isn't a troll question: Probably a total waste of cash at your level. You need to be able to competently ski any snow conditions that you encounter. At least take some off-piste lessons/guiding first and get a professional to ascertain your level, which can all be done in lift served terrain. Also need to consider to ability of the others in the group. There's usually 4 in a group plus the guide so you'll ruin the day for the other two if you spend all your time on your a$$. If you know them and they're at your level as well then that's fine (providing the operator is aware of your experience and can offer suitable terrain choices) or if you have the budget to charter the chopper for just the two of you.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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all great advice - and probably what i expected. I started thinking about it as I was talking to an acquaintance who is doing a heli trip to Georgia.
I have a few friends who are great skiers, we are all a bit grown up now but as former skateboarders etc we still want to be rad-dads.
Sounds like a dudes trip to chammonix and get a guide for a few days would be the best bet then. I feel like it is something i want to ultimatley do (or achieve?), but with some perspective, i guess it does make sense to build up more and there is plently of great terrain out there to enjoy.
Thanks for putting ice on my dreams, my wife will appreciate it 
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Pretty much what they said. I have some interest in BC-based cat/heli operators.
If you're not sure about your ability, then I'd visit a North American resort in good snow. The set-up there gives easy access to unpisted "resort powder" to practice in without the hassle of guides and additional equipment.
Then I'd take a day cat skiing. Cats are cheaper than heli, slower and more flexible, meaning you're more likely to get good value irrespective of your or anyone else's ability. Plus you're riding bottomless snow, which is the key skill.
If you just want to play in a heli, resort-based daily-heli is the entry level product. You're likely to encounter short mellow runs taken slowly with people who fall over a lot. And have their best ski day ever. Group sizes depend on the machine - 4 or 12 guests typically. Experts would not want to do this unless they rent the whole machine ("a private"), and it's generally cheaper to go to more remote places to do that. The operator will try to "group" people by ability, but it's not an easy thing to do.
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@rg123, I can recommend a visit to La Rosiere, it's the only resort in France from which you can heli-ski, the lift off is from the Espace San Bernardo, the ski domain shared with La Thuile in Italy. There are a number of options with fully qualified high mountain guides from either the ESF, Evo2 or an independent guide, the Tourist Office has a listing.
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The romance of bottomless powder. Not easy to find and often expensive to boot.
I'm quite a fan of the get what you get gnarliness of the Alps. But that's probably because I don't have the time, moolah or wife support to do anything else.
Even if I did I'd probably start close to home and venture out to west coast NA, Japan, heli-skiing and so on.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My take is that you sound plenty good enough to do a day of resort-based daily-heli like @philwig, describes.
I did one of those days in the past and it was easy, open terrain, flattering boot depth powder and not a very high standard of skier. Great fun but not demanding.
But I also have done a 4 day trip at a place that does small group (A-star) heliskiing on pretty exciting terrain and I don't think you'd cope with that. The bowls would be OK (although your pace might not be) but you don't sound quite ready for steep, tight tree skiing which was the lower half of every run.
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Sound advice above. On a proper heli-trip you need strong legs and to be able to ski well in all conditions. It’s not just the hero powder at the top but also whatever you find at the bottom, and when the heli is there to pick you up and whisk you back up with 5 mins rest in between you are going to be skiing way more vertical than on a resort based off piste day
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If you have the money, spend a week at one of CMH's lodges for powder beyond your dreams. They run courses for first time heliskiers which are excellent and fine for strong intermediate skiers. Check out their website, also videos on Youtube. Groups are usually 10 plus two guides. Definitely one for the wish list.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Consider the altitude your be skiing at..
Some US, Geogian,Kazak etc region take tracks above 4000Metres....
This is a totally different fitness requirement....otherwise your be breathless and gasping for 02 ..
Consider your fellow skiers/borders...you all need to be at the same level...
Apart from that Heliskiing should be banned
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I guess airbag and shovel is compulsory?
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You know it makes sense.
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@Orange200, airbags used to be very much frowned upon (don't know current situation)... consider what happens if you "accidentally" let one off in the helo ... (a friend has done this).
In general, you should not be skiing on slopes that are likely to slide. - I know art not science, but still. An airbag shouldn't be necessary.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Orange200 wrote: |
| I guess airbag and shovel is compulsory? |
Depends on the operator. In BC at least the risk is kind of different from the Alps. Many operators (eg Northern Escape, Viking) provide airbags and may insist guests use the operator's gear. Others (eg Wiegele) do not. Some rationale.
Whatever, guests are provided with the gear and training in how to use it.
There's no altitude issue in BC.
Apart from that internet trolls should be banned.
--
oh, you have to disarm (put the handle away) the airbag when in the machine, unless (some operators) they chuck the airbags in the ski basket.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@philwig, I’m with the Bella Coola guy. Why would you not wear one if you’re regularly off piste. I’ve got a light Mammut pack for which the system, cartridge and trigger weigh 3lbs or 1.4kg. You hardly notice the weight.
According to a 2012, WorkSafe-BC-commissioned study led by Simon Fraser University researcher Pascal Haegeli, the use of airbags increased the survival rate among individuals "seriously involved" in 34 different avalanches by 27 per cent, from 54 per cent for non-users to 83 per cent for users. The report did note, however, that myriad other factors can impact survival rates, and that an airbag's effectiveness varies widely depending on the activity and circumstances surrounding the slide.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@BobinCH,
I went to one of Henry's Avalanche Talks in December. He said that he sometimes leaves his bag behind on "4" days to "force" him to stay on terrain that is safe (below 30 degrees) etc. It's an approach to fight risk compensation.
I generally don't take mine when I'm with my kids for similar reasons - think it encourages me to put a big safety margin in the terrain choice (bigger than I might regard as necessary if they weren't there).
I totally see the arguments against that (why not use something that might make you safer, better to make it an unthinking part of the way you ski, etc)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There's a couple of 'heli-ski' routes that you can do in Tignes Val D'Isere, but you ski first and get a helo trip from the bottom, so definitionally (is that a word?) you are not heli skiing but having a heli taxy ride.
The short (and therefore about €100) is from the Mickeys Ears in Tignes down to the Lac du Chevril (behind the dam!). The helo ride back is only 90secs so that's why its easily affordable. The other is to ski from the top of Pissailas (Le Fornet Glacier to most) down to Bonneval Sur Arc, its an all day job. Most of the decent ski schools can offer these after, often towards the end of the week, so book a course of instruction (you need an instructor not a guide at your stage) and ask about the heli trips at the end of the week. Our very own Steve Angus (see the Val D'Isere thread) would be a good bloke to start the discussions with or in Tignes - http://www.tignesoffpiste.com/
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Nz experience of this - the operator hits you with a big questionnaire to work out ability and will match you with a similar group. They will only put you into terrain that the group can handle and also ensure everyone is on the right gear. If they don’t know you then they assume you are overstating your abilities.
Basically anyone that can get down an easy groomer can do it if they have the cash. All safety gear and training provided. It’s like a heli powered money machine in winter here. Some areas won’t take snowboarders because the terrain is too flat.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| jedster wrote: |
@BobinCH,
I went to one of Henry's Avalanche Talks in December. He said that he sometimes leaves his bag behind on "4" days to "force" him to stay on terrain that is safe (below 30 degrees) etc. It's an approach to fight risk compensation.
I generally don't take mine when I'm with my kids for similar reasons - think it encourages me to put a big safety margin in the terrain choice (bigger than I might regard as necessary if they weren't there).
I totally see the arguments against that (why not use something that might make you safer, better to make it an unthinking part of the way you ski, etc) |
While I understand his sentiment I’m not convinced by that argument. There are too many things you can’t control. What happens if he goes to help someone in distress and someone drops a slope on him from above. I wear it almost all the time, even if on a piste day. It’s my only pack anyway and it just becomes second nature.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Take a look at the Whistler heli skiing promo video. It’s definitely not big mountain heli lines like you see on youtube! If you have the money and like the idea be honest about your ability and then don’t let anyone apart from the heli operator talk you out of it.
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@rg123, weightlifting isn’t really skiing. Heli-skiing is _generally_ a high-cardio activity - what’s your 10km run time? That, and as other say, the ability to ski anything fast, will stand you in good stead.... so that on the ‘average to good’ powder you will fly... but you might get logs, ice, bumps etc... eg I was in Revelstoke for Christmas with CMH, our runs were either ‘alpine’ wide open snow fields, but quite mixed snow (firm, soft, powder, ice etc), or ‘tree’ where it was anything goes, steeper, deeper, softer.... except the trees. Cat skiing is a good intro, and frankly ticks all the important boxes in terms of challenge, exoticism, etc...
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@hamilton, skiing isn't really a high cardio activity, whether heli or lift assisted ... IME... and the experience of my HRM
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just spent 3 days at Silverton in Colorado. It's lift access + hike or Heli ski "resort". Altitude around 12'000ft to 13'800ft (3600m plus). We did hiking groups. Ability in moderate group was easy going mid to strong intermediate type. Group fitness wasnt great and we had a few people drop out after a few runs with 10-40min hikes. The altitude killed them.
Fast group was like hiking with mountain goats, nearly killed me.
You don't need to be a very good skiier just able to handle variable snow + powder. Fitness; my suggestion would be to spend a 3-4 days at altitude first.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| ... skiing isn't really a high cardio activity, whether heli or lift assisted ... IME... and the experience of my HRM |
I'd say it's entirely dependent on skill level.
I really need to go to the gym afterwards, but that's because I've spent a lot of time practising how not to fall over.
Actually I just go to the weights-room at the end of the day to put a bit more psychological pressure on everyone else 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@BobinCH, I wonder if Henry ever drives without a seatbelt?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@philwig, hah! good point. OK, concede that. Otherwise, skiing isn't really cardio. Or, generally shouldn't be. If it is, you're doing it wrong.
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@under a new name, maybe... if you are fit, it is easier. if you are not fit, it is harder, all other things being equal. in my humble experience, the fitter I've been, the more i have got out of my skiing. on any given run, i can cruise, or nuke, it; on a piste, ramp the turns up to increase the cardio effort.
On a heli trip, given that the skiing is probably going to be tough, fitness and recovery time is important. I've seen younger and less fit people suffer. YMMV.
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You know it makes sense.
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Got mates who did it years ago in BC - Wiegele I think. They are strong intermediates but certainly not experts.
The impression I got is that it's a big operation so they can group like abilities and cater for non-expert groups. TBH it kind of seemed a bit vanity skiing rather than necessary skiing, if you see what I mean. Having said that, I'd love to give it a shot someday, been saying it for years but fitness runs every further from me.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Agree fitness requirements depends on skill level, first time boarding in very deep powder I was constantly having to dig myself out which is pretty tiring.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@LittleBullet, i used to ski there before the lift was put in....hike up everyday !!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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95% of vacation of Winter Sporters are not Ski Fit and are in no way ready for Off Piste Skiing.. let alone Heli Skiing
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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[quote="BobinCH"]
| jedster wrote: |
| @BobinCH, While I understand his sentiment I’m not convinced by that argument. There are too many things you can’t control. What happens if he goes to help someone in distress and someone drops a slope on him from above. I wear it almost all the time, even if on a piste day. It’s my only pack anyway and it just becomes second nature. |
I've only been in two avalanches - both on the front face of Mont Gele and both triggered by skiers above not waiting for us to exit a couloir - so I completely agree with this!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| jedster wrote: |
@BobinCH,
I went to one of Henry's Avalanche Talks in December. He said that he sometimes leaves his bag behind on "4" days to "force" him to stay on terrain that is safe (below 30 degrees) etc. It's an approach to fight risk compensation.
I generally don't take mine when I'm with my kids for similar reasons - think it encourages me to put a big safety margin in the terrain choice (bigger than I might regard as necessary if they weren't there).
I totally see the arguments against that (why not use something that might make you safer, better to make it an unthinking part of the way you ski, etc) |
While I understand his sentiment I’m not convinced by that argument. There are too many things you can’t control. What happens if he goes to help someone in distress and someone drops a slope on him from above. I wear it almost all the time, even if on a piste day. It’s my only pack anyway and it just becomes second nature. |
Totally get that - not saying you are wrong, just that some experts (Henry not me!) do have reasons why they take a different approach. You asked why anyone would not wear one, I gave a reason.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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[quote="oui4ski"]
| BobinCH wrote: |
| jedster wrote: |
| @BobinCH, While I understand his sentiment I’m not convinced by that argument. There are too many things you can’t control. What happens if he goes to help someone in distress and someone drops a slope on him from above. I wear it almost all the time, even if on a piste day. It’s my only pack anyway and it just becomes second nature. |
I've only been in two avalanches - both on the front face of Mont Gele and both triggered by skiers above not waiting for us to exit a couloir - so I completely agree with this! |
DO you mean that you'd skied the couloir(s) without it going but it went when the other skiers entered it?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yup - they cut under a cornice at the top which triggered it - it was many years ago now, but I'm still very wary of any skiers above me!
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@hamilton,
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if you are fit, it is easier. if you are not fit, it is harder
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OK, yes, fair point. I'm quite fit. So I don't find much skiing on piste gets my HR up much at all. Zip lining steep (slushy) bumps however... which I interpret as skiing being not very cardio.
BUt I can see if someone is not at all fit, and has eaten all the pies, and as @philwig says, is falling over all the time, it will be exhausting.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@hamilton,
| Quote: |
if you are fit, it is easier. if you are not fit, it is harder
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OK, yes, fair point. I'm quite fit. So I don't find much skiing on piste gets my HR up much at all. Zip lining steep (slushy) bumps however... which I interpret as skiing being not very cardio.
BUt I can see if someone is not at all fit, and has eaten all the pies, and as @philwig says, is falling over all the time, it will be exhausting. |
It's really fitness + skill.
If you ski well, you don't get too tired. You can get away without a very good fitness level. Still need to be reasonably fit but that's all it takes.
If you fall over a lot, you'll get more tired. Not having good fitness will really hurt in that case.
Even if you don't fall over a lot, if you have bad technique, it will still tire you out faster than someone who ski efficiently.
Like a lot of recreational sports, better skill, less fitness demand. But if you're really fit, you do get away with less skill without killing yourself.
The whole point of heli skiing is to get to ski best snow A LOT, for a lot of money. So, either you get good at technique, or at least get as fit as possible, you'll get more enjoyment out of that big chunk of cash you hand over.
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@under a new name, i dont disagree.... but my 4 days with cmh was hard work, at it was steeper and deeper than anything else ive skied... which for me was the whole point! piste skiing is generally easier, although when i had a couple of welsh race team members, even the piste skiing was a workout... to be fair, a good heli op will mix the clients so they are equally matched for fitness as well as skiing... or they offer you to it out....
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FAQ
