What are the main advantages of one vs the other? Looking to get my first pair of skins.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@bmwx54, They are self adhesive surely, well mine are anyway. Welcome to SH btw.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Glue are generally sticker, which can be advantageous if doing multiple ascents during a day or when skinning in very cold conditions (some of the pure vaccuum skins can be problematic when very cold).
Glueless make transitions much easier, no need to mess around with cheatsheets on a windswept ridge to stop them sticking together, etc. Sometimes they don't stick as well to the skis.
I've used a few different brands (currently Black Diamond on my main touring rig due to what was available in a shop I had a voucher for rather than choice particularly), and personally I find Contour's hybrid the best of both worlds.
The guide with whom I sometimes ski is not a fan of the glueless - he says they have to be kept scrupulously clean and can be problematic if doing a double skin.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I've been using Coltex Clariden and they have been faultless - and oh so easy to use They are a glue system of sorts, but not as we know it. Do not need any sheets to cheat or store. Just roll them back to back and they are good to put back in rucksack and they will stick on the skis again many times - simples.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Yup, myself and Kooky both have one set of Clariden skins and one set of traditional glued skins (BD & Atomic), they are great and quite light weight. Another advantage is that if you need to renew the acrylate tape you just stick on a new sheet and pull the backing off. I fold mine in half so tht in windy conditions you can take out one skin at a time. I've stored mine all summer stuck together and they pulled apart just as easily as after a days storage.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Glueless are perfect if used in ideal conditions. Anything else then ideal conditions and they are complete crap that will make you hate ski touring... so much you will never want to go again. If you put skins on at home on perfectly clean and dry ski, and if snow conditions are not wet or super cold, and if you never make second ascend, they will do fine. Anything out of these, you are better off staying at home Seriously.... as soon as ski is a bit wet, it will never stick good enough, as soon as snow is a bit too wet, it will "unglue" and snow will start to accumulate between skin and ski etc etc.
So personally, I would never go with glueless, even if skins with glue are a bit more hassle sometimes, but they stay on skis when you need them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I'm surprised they still sell skins with glue on them tbh. It is like something from granpa's era.
I'm on about 150,000 vertical meters on my second pair of glueless skins (Geko). The first pair (Hightrail) did 100K vertical meters but I sold the skis with the skins.
You don't have to worry about care that much, fold them together and chuck them in the rucksack, great in windy conditions. If, for some reason, they come unstuck just warm them up a bit and they'll restick. You can wash them in a machine if they are dirty on a 30 degree wash (no sping) to clean them.
[edited: typo]
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 24-02-20 14:07; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Yes you need to keep the glueless skins warm and dry the skis off - I take tissues to wipe down the skis before reaplying the glueless skin after the first descent.
Some early glueless skins had problems (e.g. contour glue sticking problem) and Colltex (low temps). Not had problems with my glueless skins yet (Contour) but haven't run them in very wet or very cold conditions (Sub -10 Deg C) yet either.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Mon 24-02-20 11:43; edited 1 time in total
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@davidof, @DB, well without sounding like a scratched record (again) in the likes of Siberia, in uber cold temps / powder and multi transitions they are not recommended by the outfits running operations there as they have seen first-hand clients having a mare with them, and as again I've said on here, in very rare conditions a la Siberia / Japan which we were fortunate to encounter a couple of seasons ago in the Queyras a member of our group had a nightmare with them on the second climb.
There again how many SH's are touring in temps below -15 ?
So if you're never going to tour in the likes of Japan / Siberia in temps well below zero then they'll be fine
For the record, I do have some Scott glueless skins but have only used them a couple of times as I lost a ski in a slide
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Weathercam,
Which glueless skins were they?
e.g. Colltex Whizz are known to have problems below -10 Deg C.
Did they keep the skins warm? (under the jacket not in the backpack)
As with most new ski touring binding technology there are sometimes teething problems with skins. Certain problems get sorted, some don't. Contour had a glue problem which they rectified approx 2 years back. Just because one pin binding doesn't work well doesn't mean they are all cr@p but yes it is unclear which touring-skin problems have been rectified so the safe bet would be to go for traditional skins esp. if going to sub 10 Deg places.
Has anyone had problems with new glueless skins (this or last season's versions) in wet or very cold conditions (sub -10 Deg C)?
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 24-02-20 14:43; edited 1 time in total
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Weathercam wrote:
@davidof, @DB, well without sounding like a scratched record (again)
No go ahead, the idea is to share experiences and one person's experiences with the same gear won't mirror another's.
Touring in -15C? Not for a few years I bet. My car thermometer was +23C earlier at 1350 meters but it had been in the sun. It will probably get to around 20C in the valleys in the shade today.
I've only used Hightrail and Gecko skins. The Hightrails had a relatively weak backing material. The Geckos are the 2nd generation I think and I know the quality varied a lot from season to season. My personal experience is they work better than glue skins in the cold we get in the Belledonne mountains (maybe it is a humidity thing?) but that is just with the few people I've been with who have had issues. I've seen people with glue skins unable to get them to restick whereas I find the Geckos will always restick, sometimes so well I couldn't get them off again ! Geckos are a suction skin.
But I don't have too many gear problems in general so maybe I'm just lucky?
Have to report that my three year old Colltex were the cause of a little swearing at -12 in Canadia. Probs time for a re-glue.
Top tips from the guide helped make them useable for the day though.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
Glue Integrity
In this category, the Vacuum Base Zero really stands out, and the silicone adhesive is truly unique within our test roster. We used one other set of silicone skins in an earlier review cycle, and liked them then too, overall. As compared to "regular" skin glue, the silicone base of these is more durable and requires less maintenance, in the long run. On any given tour, though, you are more likely to need to perform some sort of adjustment or reapplication. You can literally wash these skins in your sink at home. If your kid wraps the cat in your Kohla skins, you simply rinse off the hair with soap and water. You definitely cannot do that with traditional glued skins. On the other hand, almost regardless of temperatures and moisture content, you are more likely to experience ski/skin delamination out in the backcountry with the siliconed Kohla Vacuum. This is annoying and time consuming but is easily resolved with a ski-off, skin cleaning rest break.
The adhesive design informs the ease of use. Like we mention above, you have a choice to make. Do you want in-field fiddling in exchange for toss-it-in-the-corner at home ease? Or would you rather take some care and put in some work at home and get better field performance? With other minor usability concerns, this seems to be the question informing ones choice of the Kohla or not.
We tested long enough to discover that, if you lose a traditionally glued skin once about every five days of skinning, you will lose your Kohla Vacuum skin once about every one day of skinning. Essentially, you are going to remount your Kohla skins about five times more frequently than your regular glued skins, all else equal. Now, regular glued skins degrade with time and use, while the silicone base of the Kohla basically does not. If you are sloppy with maintenance and replacement of your regular glued skins, you will kick them off more frequently, while skin adhesion failure of the Kohla will not appreciably change with clumsy maintenance. Our test team went "'round and 'round" on the question of "well, is the silicone better than regular glue?" We didn't heartily agree, but the consensus is that regular glue is a little better. We'd rather, overall, deal with the glue maintenance at home than in the field.
It is for the truly different adhesion that the Kohla Vacuum earns our Top Pick award. For that subset of the skiing population that doesn't mind some field fiddling in exchange for worry-free long-term maintenance, the Kohla is a valuable addition to the market. The majority of users will be better served by "traditional" glue, but the silicone adhesion of these is going to appeal to some.
Choose the Kohla Vacuum Base Zero if you want skins that will last a long time with absolutely no at-home maintenance. You will pay for that ease with more frequent in-field issues, but those in-field issues are easily resolved. Traditional glued skins require some love at home but work better in the wild.
Conclusion
Every few years some new "technology" promises to disrupt the climbing skin business. We follow the trends and hold on for the ride, but these "upgrades" rarely exceed the performance of the "tried and true" formula. The silicone adhesive of the Kohla can be seen either way. For a very small subset of users, this is exactly what you've been looking for. For most, though, the regular glue technology is still preferred. In overall scoring, there is nothing special about the Kohla. By far, their most discerning characteristic is the silicone adhesive. The plush (fabric) side strikes a great balance of grip and glide, fitting right in with the best in our review. If the pros and cons of the non-traditional adhesive balance out on the plus side for you, these are excellent skins. Basically, the adhesive is indeed more durable and lower maintenance in the long run. However, while "on tour" in the field, these skins require a little more fiddling than skins with regular glue.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Mon 24-02-20 14:54; edited 1 time in total
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Mosha Marc, what were the tips ?
This year in Japan on multi transitions and with clipless tails, some 20cm short, I was not concentrating and tails ended up not sticking too well so, packing them in my skin pockets in my jacket helped warm them up, and then I used my plastic wax scraper to iron them out on each transition and had no more issues for the whole trip.
Cold light powder and cold temps can result in snow getting under any skin edge that is not firmly stuck to the ski, tips being a major culprit.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Weathercam, Get them cleaned up by sticking your ski upright in the snow, leaning against it, then pulling the glue side of the skin over a ski edge backwards and forwards. You can get much more purchase and do it much more quickly than using a scraper.
Once cleaned up, do the same thing but over your thigh really quickly to warm the skin up.
Noticeably stickier after that..
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
…....and of course, as you say, store them in your jacket pocket between transitions.
My jacket has an inside "goggle" pocket which is perfect.
I use the scraper once the skins are on to iron them out onto the ski as it were.
Not thought of that.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I used for last 4 seasons pomoca with typon "glueless".
I'm amazed how they manage all situations. Never had a problem, also doing "multilaps" touring in the BC in -10...and no problem.
A friend of mine spent 3 months in Canada...from MtBaker to rogers pass and up to Alaska..touring practically every day, so he encoutered all possible conditions, and still yet to reporte any problem.
This year I bought the pomoca free tour 2.0 (no typon option available) for my fat skis (they are available at 140mm so really good option), and the only complain I have after some days of use...is to not have typon glueless option. How easy are the transitions, specially in wind, also any care at all, less than "glue" normal ones.
When you will use it, don't want to return to "glue" option
After all it is free
After all it is free
I have a cut down dishwashing brush with a scraper edge tied to my skin bag to get ice off my bindings. It also works pretty well for brushing snow off skins.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I use an old toothbrush with a reduced length handle sharpened to a point to clean ice/snow from my bindings (also tied to the string of the skins bag).
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
A toothbrush is too hard core for me I am happy to carry the additional few grams as my skis and boots weigh about the same as a Labrador
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
and I was just thinking what a good idea a dishwashing brush scraper was! My Tecnica Zero G were a revelation compared to previous much heavier ski boots, but I suffer more on the up to enjoy the weighty M5 Mantra's on the down ...
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Although you can clean glueless skins with household detergent this doesn't always get them totally clean as residual wax can remain on the sticky surface. The skin manufacturers offer specific cleaning fluids that shift the residual wax ….
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
They are a glue system of sorts, but not as we know it. Do not need any sheets to cheat or store. Just roll them back to back and they are good to put back in rucksack and they will stick on the skis again many times - simples.
Seriously.... as soon as ski is a bit wet, it will never stick good enough, as soon as snow is a bit too wet, it will "unglue" and snow will start to accumulate between skin and ski etc etc.
