 Poster: A snowHead
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| snowdave wrote: |
| We have level 2 autonomy on our car (i.e. It steers and controls speed but driver needs to be attentive) which makes a huge difference in long journeys. In normal motorway driving I probably only have to intervene once every 5-10 minutes. It makes me a much better driver by freeing me up to concentrate on the bigger decisions and looking further ahead. I wouldn't buy a car without it now. |
I bought a new car a year ago and got the same technology - long motorway driving is much less stressful and tiring. I'm sure it's a great safety benefit and, like you, wouldn't want to be without it now.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@ousekjarr, the idea of retro fitting guide-kerbs to every road, and kerb guide technology to cars is just not going to happen.
Far too expensive.
The thing about saving lives is that lives really do have an economic value when these things are decided.
We may not like the idea (every life is priceless etc) but there is a value calculation, and it gets used.
Unless a LOT of people go off into ditches etc...not enough value in A. developing the technology, B. Mandating the technology and C. Fitting it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ahh I come on here to escape work and this whole thread is basically my day job 
Which is i suppose a good thing because it shows that people are interested. Still a lot of work to be done to convince some of you, but nice to see a few on the fence. We’re still pretty early in the adoption curve but I genuinely wouldn’t go back to a diesel car now. I’m getting to test a few EVs now so that when I extol the virtues I can’t just be accused of driving a £65k car. Having driven the new Renault Zoe and the Vauxhall corsa-e in the last couple of weeks I think they’re great cars too. However I wouldn’t want to drive either of them to the alps (or their diesel equivalent).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Lozza1uk, wait till you get your hands on a Kona or Niro 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
Wasting hours standing around in a grim carpark recharging a glorified toy car while everyone gets bored is not a vacation.
Take an airplane. |
Trying to feed the trolls or genuinely prehistoric?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Driving to Alpe d'Huez in a Tesla in April. v interesting thread and will post here after.
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If a PHEV does 30 miles before using fossil fuel, and then uses it at ten mpg more. Say 30 mpg instead of 40mpg.
Aren't you winning on any trip less than 120 miles? Which is a lot more than most round commutes.
We're thinking of one, once it can get us up the ski hill on a charge. As that is the max range for 90% of our driving. 1000m up and 20k along. Not sure any of the hybrids will do that currently?
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If you regularly plug it in and most of your journeys are less than 30 miles, or in stop start traffic then yes, it’ll do the job.
What’s happened in the UK is the company car tax advantage of a PHEV is significant so lots of people are taking a BMW 330e for example instead of the diesel one, doing motorway driving, retuning the car with the charging cable still in its wrapper 3 years later and wondering why they’ve spent a fortune on fuel.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Ozboy wrote: |
Out of curiosity does anyone drive down to the Alps on a Tesla - wondering availability of fast chargers along the route and if any queuing required?
Thinking of going electric for next car but wondering about practicalities for driving to Chatel in a day without having to overnight or make a very long stop. Also considering a plug-in hybrid as a good compromise - electric around london and petrol/diesel when driving to Alps. |
Bored in the fledgling storm so popped out to Tesla Model 3 to see what it had to say about getting to the Alps and how many charging stops would be needed.
Model 3 replied: “Starting at 16:22 from darkest Hampshire and taking the Eurotunnel with all the necessary charging stops and you will arrive into Tignes at 07:26 tomorrow morning“
My mate’s out there now, the weather is rubbish here, I’m sorely tempted...
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So 15 hours - did you go?? 
Slight thread drift - with the M3 do you still stick to the Tesla SuC network - or do you venture onto thrid party chargers (curious Model S owner)?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Grinning, thanks for that, interesting. Observations (NOT criticisms):
2h40m of stops for charging. Not v. much different to our typical drive
I wouldn’t chose to spend 25 mins stationary between home/tunnel (100 mile journey, do that in one hit).
I wouldn’t chose to stop as close to the tunnel as Baie de Somme (want 2 hours plus under my belt)
Routing via Paris not ideal.
If you could combine a charge with overnight stop (we don’t always do it in one hit) it would be fine. Likewise get a charge at Eurotunnel whilst waiting for boarding. Does ET have charge points, can’t say I’ve noticed.
Need to find a charge at destination.
How often do you need to queue to get a charge (typically 5 mins max for filthy petrol/diesel)?
Around 30 mins for a charge every 2.5 hours would probably be OK.
We’re thinking electric for my wife’s small car for round and about, we could instal a charge point on our drive and use our free solar. Not yet convinced as a replacement for our bigger car used for long journeys.
Thoughts anyone?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Duplicate deleted
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sun 16-02-20 23:31; edited 1 time in total
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| stuartrose wrote: |
So 15 hours - did you go??
Slight thread drift - with the M3 do you still stick to the Tesla SuC network - or do you venture onto thrid party chargers (curious Model S owner)? |
1) I’m going Thursday ;o)
2) Almost all my charging is done at home with Wall charger. I use Tesla Superchargers only when I travel out of home range as I get free Super-charging including across mainland Europe. Fleet Northbound works very well for M3 travels.
“Other routes are available” which omit Paris and I would never route through Paris from Calais, however pretty unavoidable from Le Havre/Caen.
At this destination free sloooow-charging available in Val Claret’s underground Golf car park and public fast-charge point available in Val, next door to Tignes.
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You know it makes sense.
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I drove to the birthday bash in an M3 using autopilot most of the way. It really was effortless compared to previous drives and I wasn’t half as tired as I have been on previous trips. The journey was actually pleasurable.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Isn't there perhaps another way of looking at this? I'm imaging a conversation in 18th Century with people arguing about taking a canal boat vs a train. People suggesting the country could be covered with railway lines between towns being laughed at, given the immense cost of leveling the tracks, the need to re-provision the 1st gen of locomotives every 20 miles etc. etc. No idea that the steam railway was going to completely change the travel equation.
In my grandparents day, everyone but the very poorest sent bulky luggage on ahead. It was collected from their door, taken to the station, put on a train as freight, transported to their destination and was there when they arrived. Perhaps in the future, there will be a standard, domestic container unit that you just fill up with stuff and it follows the same model, at a reasonable delivery cost.
Perhaps we won't use the next generations of electric transport the same way we use petrol/diesel cars? Remember just how subsidised tarmac roads are: if we put the same subsidy into alternatives and charged for roads at a true economic rate, they'd probably be uncompetitive for longer distances.
Taking your personal vehicle from your UK home to your Alpine destination for a week's holiday will probably look like a bizarre idea in 50 years time, perhaps less. So the question won't be 'Can I drive my personal electric car from Surrey to The Alps as easily as its petrol equivalent?' It'll be 'Why would I take a personal car from Surrey to The Alps at all, given the alternatives?' or even 'What's a personal car? Why would I buy something that I can hire as and when I need it?'
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Poster: A snowHead
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| LaForet wrote: |
| Isn't there perhaps another way of looking at this? I'm imaging a conversation in 18th Century with people arguing about taking a canal boat vs a train. People suggesting the country could be covered with railway lines between towns being laughed at, given the immense cost of leveling the tracks, the need to re-provision the 1st gen of locomotives every 20 miles etc. etc. No idea that the steam railway was going to completely change the travel equation. |
The railways seem to me to have been built fairly quickly.
| Quote: |
In my grandparents day, everyone but the very poorest sent bulky luggage on ahead. It was collected from their door, taken to the station, put on a train as freight, transported to their destination and was there when they arrived. Perhaps in the future, there will be a standard, domestic container unit that you just fill up with stuff and it follows the same model, at a reasonable delivery cost. |
I suggested that on page 1, along with the idea that short-range electric vehicles could be designed around the container.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Very doable. Did it in February 2018 in my Tesla Model S with the 75kWh battery. Takes 14 hours from Ipswich, including crossing and charging. Arrived with 30%, then topped up while in the resort at the chalet using an extension cable to connect to a domestic schuko socket (dialled down to 8 amps) which got the car back to 80% in 24 hours. Didn’t go higher as needed space to put the regeneration charge (motor turns into generator to slow the car during the descent to the valley). Other options available are the Tesla destination chargers in Morzine (Pleasey lift), or if really desperate, the camp site. Didn’t need either. ChargeMap app useful for finding options to charge.
Going to St Anton next week in the car. Can’t wait
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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"Does ET have charge points, can’t say I’ve noticed."
Yes I spotted them as queuing to get into the terminal yesterday and thought of this thread and how it'd be a decent use of the Eurotunnel delay time!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Zzpaulkzz, Welcome to Snowheads
That sounds pretty good. My journey to Chatel from Colchester is quite similar to the one you describe.
If doing a one hit we would take:
Colchester to tunnel 2 hours
Faffing at Eurotunnel check-in/security etc. 45 minutes
Crossing/unloading etc. 45 minutes
Drive to Chatel 9 hours (800km, 7h30m driving, 1h30m stops)
Total 12h30m (roughly)
If it’s not presumptious (and you can still remember) could you share the rough stages of your trip down?
Good luck with St Anton, may all your Superchargers be vacant!
@MHskier, we don't tend to use the terminal at all if we can avoid it but that could easily be factored into the journey
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You Tesla owners - how do you deal with the possible issue of another car using the charger when you get to it? Is there some kind of advance booking, or are Teslas not yet that popular to be flooding the limited number of chargers? (But probably an issue on peak travel days as we are discussing here...)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Orange200 wrote: |
| You Tesla owners - how do you deal with the possible issue of another car using the charger when you get to it? Is there some kind of advance booking, or are Teslas not yet that popular to be flooding the limited number of chargers? (But probably an issue on peak travel days as we are discussing here...) |
Not a Tesla owner, but I don't think I've ever seen a row of Tesla chargers all occupied. The chargers at the Eurtunnel terminals might have one or two cars occupying them whenever I've used the tunnel, but at least half a dozen have been unoccupied and often no cars using them at all.
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The more I see and read, the more I'm interested in a Model Y as my next family car.
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Me too. Probably 18 months away at least for us.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Me too - especially after seeing quite a few electric cars on this years half term trip. Eyeing the Merc E-Class estate full electric scheduled for 2022 which will evolve from the new MB EQC SUV which is getting really good reviews in real world tests.
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Lots of Teslas in Switzerland. My other observation is that over the last 2 months I've seen scores of charging points but have only seen one car plugged in. (No idea what "brand" they all were).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| BoardieK wrote: |
| Lots of Teslas in Switzerland. My other observation is that over the last 2 months I've seen scores of charging points but have only seen one car plugged in. (No idea what "brand" they all were). |
The new points could be Ionity which are fast charging points being leveraged by the German car manufacturers for their upcoming EV models.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Orange200 wrote: |
| You Tesla owners - how do you deal with the possible issue of another car using the charger when you get to it? Is there some kind of advance booking, or are Teslas not yet that popular to be flooding the limited number of chargers? (But probably an issue on peak travel days as we are discussing here...) |
Only queued once in 27 months ownership. It happens for sure, especially at certain sites with dual chargers. And M3s have added significant extra demand. Wayleaves are holding up a roll out of more sites: need a change of law there. The satnav will indicate the number of pumps and live occupancy. There have been attempts at apps to help but these died quickly: too much personal data and car access required, not enough need.
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Coming to this a bit late but thought it worth adding my two-penneth, as we're on our second Tesla, work in the ski industry, and have driven down without problems.
We made a guide for anyone worried it might be tricky - because it's not.
https://www.sno.co.uk/ski-holidays/ev-driving-to-alps/
(admin, I won't be offended if you delete this link, if you feel it's not editorially useful or is spammy - I realise I haven't been on or posted in ages, but do feel passionate about this issue)
The last time we drove down was actually to the south of France (Cannes is further than the alps), and I can honestly say we never stopped to charge - only to eat (when we would plug in too).
My advice, to minimise charging, is to "set-off" first (i.e. not "breakfast" first) so that you do two or three hours and then plug in during breakfast, then drive again until lunch plugin, then drive again until tea-time plugin, then drive again until supper plugin or arrival (depending on how fast you drive and what your range is of course).
The car does charge much faster from empty, and slowly reduces charge-rate as it gets closer to full (to safeguard the battery), so it's much faster to keep the car from zero to three-quarters full (i.e. don't waste time topping-off the last 25% of the battery, as this takes ages compared to how fast the first 75% goes in).
The 300+ mile range on a Tesla is more than enough before you need the loo and a bite to eat - who wants to drive more than 3 to 4 hours at a time without a break?
If you need to max out your range on a smaller battery car, you can drive smarter by keeping windows closed, not using a roof-rack/box, and dressing appropriately rather than keeping the heater on.
I've put all these tips and a load more are in the article e.g. did you know you waste less battery by using the heated seats, which just warm "you", instead of heating the whole interior? That kind of thing matters much more when driving in the winter.
Anyway, the upshot is that some people will always feel too nervous to do something new, until tons of people have done it and it has become "normal" - that's fine and there's nothing wrong with being cautious - it's just up to the rest of us to make it normal by showing it's easy and safe.
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You know it makes sense.
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Sno that is so helpful - thank you! We have a Tesla and will almost certainly be using it to drive down at least once this season.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Have nothing against teslas or evs, but I simply do not eat that much …. Bloody hell, food/resto bills will skyrocket when switching to an ev 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| LaForet wrote: |
| Remember just how subsidised tarmac roads are: if we put the same subsidy into alternatives and charged for roads at a true economic rate, they'd probably be uncompetitive for longer distances.' |
Massively debatable. I accept the link is 7 years old - has the overall thrust of the numbers significantly changed?
| Quote: |
Road users are now paying four times more money to Chancellor George Osborne in motoring taxes than is being spent by the Government on roads, according to research by the RAC Foundation. |
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Sno wrote: |
Coming to this a bit late but thought it worth adding my two-penneth, as we're on our second Tesla, work in the ski industry, and have driven down without problems.
We made a guide for anyone worried it might be tricky - because it's not.
https://www.sno.co.uk/ski-holidays/ev-driving-to-alps/
(admin, I won't be offended if you delete this link, if you feel it's not editorially useful or is spammy - I realise I haven't been on or posted in ages, but do feel passionate about this issue)
The last time we drove down was actually to the south of France (Cannes is further than the alps), and I can honestly say we never stopped to charge - only to eat (when we would plug in too).
My advice, to minimise charging, is to "set-off" first (i.e. not "breakfast" first) so that you do two or three hours and then plug in during breakfast, then drive again until lunch plugin, then drive again until tea-time plugin, then drive again until supper plugin or arrival (depending on how fast you drive and what your range is of course).
The 300+ mile range on a Tesla is more than enough before you need the loo and a bite to eat - who wants to drive more than 3 to 4 hours at a time without a break?
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sounds more like you planning your eating around charging, rather than planning your charging around eating!
As for driving 4+ without a break.... me! and I have done some long journeys without one! A few 8hrs ones in the US
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Mr.Egg,we drive home from Folkestone to Durham in one go . Fuelled up in Calais, and enough to get us home. Why stop on a UK motorway if you don't have to? Even the dogs don't want to get out to cock a leg.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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My car starts shouting at me after 2hours to take a break.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| @Mr.Egg,we drive home from Folkestone to Durham in one go . Fuelled up in Calais, and enough to get us home. Why stop on a UK motorway if you don't have to? Even the dogs don't want to get out to cock a leg. |
Looking at the used car market at the moment, I am tempted to look for a new car.
An electric makes perfect sense, since most of my journeys are short journeys & work related. However, there is a good chance of me being relocated to a different office, due to office space/capacity - in which case I will be getting the train as it is cheaper than driving & parking.
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@Hells Bells, A rest (mentally) is a good/safe idea. Not sure how long it takes to get to Durham, but I bet it's much longer than the recommended stint without a short break. Plenty of accidents due to tired drivers - and if you've done the stint in France in one go that's even more reason to stop part way.
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| Quote: |
The 300+ mile range on a Tesla is more than enough before you need the loo and a bite to eat - who wants to drive more than 3 to 4 hours at a time without a break?
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I hadn't realised that it only took 5 minutes, the time to have a wee wee, to recharge a Tesla. On a trip to Les Arcs one driver will do the 4 hour stint to Folkstone, the next does the 3 hours to south of Rheims when we will need to refuel and get some sandwiches. We then keep
rotating drivers every 2 to 3 hours. It only takes a few minutes to swap drivers.
Incidently what do people do while waiting for a charging point to become free? Do you wait in the car or come back say 30 minutes later?
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[@Sno, It would be interesting to hear from non Telsa owners who had to charge outside of the Tesla network and managed to get to the Alps!
This is what ABRP shows for my iPace with the outside temp set to 5, but hard to know if the stops would be busy with a queue or not in winter!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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^^^ That looks quite expensive. £60 plus 144Euros = £182 @1.18 to the GBP? Plus you're starting 'full' and arriving with 30% remaining, so there is another 70% charge required to get a true comparison. Ok you might say that's free and takes no time if your destination hotel offers it, but it should be included for completeness.
And it's not 900 miles because 37 of that is on a choo-choo under the sea. The speeds also look a bit on the slow side - 111mi in 1h35 is 70MPH, whereas the French MWay limit is 82MPH. What does travelling at 80+ MPH vs 70MPH do to the range?
I've just been costing up our normal winter trip to Tignes. I would expect to average closer to 80MPH in France as far as Lyon (traffic and weather permitting obvs), and would need one stop somewhere between Dijon and Lyon for fuel (metal chicken). Two tanks at £80 a pop would easily get me 900 miles, and traveling at close to the speed limits normally takes us 12-13 hours including a one hour lunch stop (metal chicken), and another hour shopping in Chambery.
What would be an advantage is if Eurotunnel could equip the trains to charge electric cars. That way the 30+ minutes spent "stationary" could be used for something productive.
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@Judwin, Wot's 'metal chicken'?
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FAQ
