 Poster: A snowHead
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Is it true to say that thermal fit is always better if price doesn't matter?
Or do the wax injected ones perform a role which thermal ones cannot do e.g. take up a big space? I've seen wax injection liners which have wax only around the back of the foot (actually had these for a year, Head, and got rid of them for €200 thermal ones) and then some rather more pricey ones which had wax injection all around.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Many would say Zipfits are the best option (including me, who's had OEM heat moulded liners, Foam liners also).
Heel hold as good as a perfect foam liner (if correctly sized and fitted), and will outlast your boot shells and can be used in your next boots; pretty much don't pack out at all (and can be topped up with Omfit if feet changes dramatically) while aloowing/compensating for day by day minor foot changes/swelling etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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In reality it's not as simple as saying one is best, what works for one person doesn't always work for others. Also bear in mind that all stock liners are Heat mouldable and i wouldn't call them the best.
I have no experience at all with wax injected liners, never tried them myself. The most common aftermarket liners you come across are:
Foam Injected liners, Never skied them myself, some people swear by them others don't get on with them i have had friends with both experiences.
foam Heat moulded liners, Something like Intuitions, i skied them for a couple of seasons and they were a good improvement over the stock liner i had in my boots. Intuitions in particular kept my feet very warm.
Zipfit Liners, These are heat mouldable but use a clay and cork medium. the way they are built means they shouldn't pack out like a traditional liner. I have just had a set put in my boots but i don't get to ski them until Sunday so can't comment on how they ski.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I got 450 ski days from my previous pair of zipfits. They mechanically failed in the end (vs packing out).
Based on experience with a wide variety of liners, including Strolz foam, I would pick Zipfits each time now.
The trouble with foamed liners is that once they are done then that’s it. It is pretty much like trying to uncook a soufflé if you need to fix a problem after foaming.
Have not heard of wax injected liners. Anyone have a link?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I got a pair of Head Nexo LYT boots just over a year ago (skied 2 weeks in them so far) which have this option but the boot fitter at the time (at Ski Bartlett) said the fit was fine without the liquid fit being used (the OEM liners are also thermoformed) and come back if and when you feel they have packed out to want the liquid injected. I was happy with the advice and they have skied well since.
Sorry, now having written all this I see I haven’t really contributed much of any use to the question. But if I do get them liquid filled I promise to come back to let you know how it went!
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Sidas foam injected for me, with the foaming performed by a professional. I’ve had various versions over the last 30 years, and I’m currently using the Sidas Classic PU Race it touring boots.
I have very different sized and shaped feet, so foam is the only practical option for me, and I wouldn’t be skiing otherwise.
As mentioned above foaming is a one time process, so it must be performed and guaranteed by a professional. It’s an art form to get the fit and firmness you require which is controlled by the ratio mix of the foam chemicals, how (and in what order) the pipes are pinched off to allow the foam to flow, and how your foot is pre-padded, and how you are told to move your foot while the foaming takes place.
If the foaming goes wrong (and it can), you shouldn’t have to pay to get a new pair of liners foamed, hence the guaranteed part.
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Zipfit for me. Had them for 5 years. Colin @ www.solutions4feet.com fitted them, and they have been fantastic. I recently brought a new pair of boots from Colin, and he said to just keep using my Zipfits in the new boots, so I saved £££. Just had 2 fab weeks with them on the snow.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I looked up Zipfits. Very few outlets in Europe. Pricing, as far as I can find, is in the region of 400-500 quid. Is that right?
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| Peter Stevens wrote: |
| I looked up Zipfits. Very few outlets in Europe. Pricing, as far as I can find, is in the region of 400-500 quid. Is that right? |
No, about £200 or a little bit more. Money well worth spending, in my experience.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I got zipfits two weeks ago, £220 inc consulting and fitting. Couldn't believe the difference over the stock Salomon "race" liners...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I saw some prices c. USD 450 in the US where these come from.
How would they compare with thermal fit Sidas liners?
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| Peter Stevens wrote: |
I saw some prices c. USD 450 in the US where these come from.
How would they compare with thermal fit Sidas liners? |
UK price here at Solutions4Feet. I've never skied in thermal Sidas liners, but I've previously skied in stock liners, foamed liners and Zipfits. Of these I prefer Zipfits by a big margin, and I'm now on to my third pair.
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You know it makes sense.
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Interesting that Zipfit recommend heating just the boots and then sticking your feet (in the liners) into them. No separate heating of the liners.
The other interesting thing which nobody - including any shop - ever told me before, nor did I ever see others doing it, is that according to the Zipfit website you are supposed to put the liners on your feet first, lace them up (if you use laces) and then stick them into the boots. That protects the feet from the sharp edges of the hard plastic of the boot. It might be slightly tricky to do if you used the wax injection liners, because they obviously swell up with the wax.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Never heard of wax injected. Had at least 4 attempts with foam injected, and don't get on with them all.
Stock heat mouldable liners are OK for me till they pack down, but tend always to need bits sticking on the outside to get a decent rear foot hold (very narrow).
Also just got Zipfits, but not yet tried in anger.
Fundamentally, get the shell fit as good as possible, and then liners to fit if necessary. Liners can only take up so much room, and can't solve boots which are simply too big.
Also, different replacement liners might or might not take filler, or give or adjust padding at different parts of the foot and lower leg, so this will affect a person's best choice for them. For my narrow rears and lower legs, Zipfits seem to offer the best placed filler.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Peter Stevens wrote: |
| Interesting that Zipfit recommend heating just the boots and then sticking your feet (in the liners) into them. No separate heating of the liners. |
IIRC both shells and liners were heated when I've had Zipfits fitted.
| Peter Stevens wrote: |
| The other interesting thing which nobody - including any shop - ever told me before, nor did I ever see others doing it, is that according to the Zipfit website you are supposed to put the liners on your feet first, lace them up (if you use laces) and then stick them into the boots. |
Some people do that, others don't. It's never worked for me, so I just slide my feet in to my boots in the usual way.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Peter Stevens wrote: |
| Interesting that Zipfit recommend heating just the boots and then sticking your feet (in the liners) into them. No separate heating of the liners.. |
Thats what they suggest, when i had mine fitted we heated the liners not the boots because i have had work done to my boots and we didn't want to risk undoing that work. A good boot-fitter should know his products and how best to fit them in different situations.
Putting the liner on first then putting it into you boot in my experience works better with lace up liners IMO. It is how i put my boots on with Zipfit's, I can put them on 'normally' but it's quite a struggle.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
he other interesting thing which nobody - including any shop - ever told me before, nor did I ever see others doing it, is that according to the Zipfit website you are supposed to put the liners on your feet first, lace them up (if you use laces) and then stick them into the boots.
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I've sometimes found that the best thing to with lace up liners in touring boots - seem to be able to get a better snug lacing
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I could never understand how laces can work, because you obviously can't get your feet in or out of the liner if the laces are done up, but you can't get the laces loose all the way down with the liner in the boot...
I might try doing the above method and see if I can get into the boots.
In one place I was at a year or so ago, Switzerland somewhere, every shop was selling the wax injection liners. The liners with multiple points, not just around the heel, were fairly pricey, about 400.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Peter Stevens wrote: |
I could never understand how laces can work, because you obviously can't get your feet in or out of the liner if the laces are done up, but you can't get the laces loose all the way down with the liner in the boot...
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My boots are quite snug, so the laces in the Zipfits aren't especially comfortable and I've removed them. But the laces can be tightened and loosed when the liners are in the shells.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Can you buy shell only boots and then put in zipfits to save money?
Or do any boot manufacturers ship with zipfits as standard?
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| Layne wrote: |
Can you buy shell only boots and then put in zipfits to save money?
Or do any boot manufacturers ship with zipfits as standard? |
I think the answers to that are no and no.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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MMMmmm... I'm and advocate of not skimping on boots but another £220 would take me up to something like £600 for a fitting, shell, footbed, modifications and zipfit liners.
But zipfits would lengthen the use of the boots maybe....?
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@Layne, a standard stock liner in my experience usually lasts about 90 skiing days before it starts to pack out, but the shells will have plenty of life left. There are plenty of reports of people with Zipfit's that have been in 3 or so shells with ski days well into the multiple 100's
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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For me Zipfits provide a far, far better fit than stock liners. Everything else is a distant second in terms of priorities, longevity, cost, etc. Save money elsewhere, but not on boots.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Layne wrote: |
MMMmmm... I'm and advocate of not skimping on boots but another £220 would take me up to something like £600 for a fitting, shell, footbed, modifications and zipfit liners.
But zipfits would lengthen the use of the boots maybe....? |
Apart from your budget, it also depends on how many days you ski each year. I do ~130 ski days per year, so I would total a pair of stock liners each year and, from what I understand, ditto for Intuition liners. As I said earlier, I got 450 ski days from my previous pair of Zipfits?
BTW: I understand that the foot-into-liner-then-into-shell approach protects the heel pocket. Don’t know for sure, but it works for me, so that’s what I do.
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Have to agree with the ZipFit fans here.
I first put my ZipFit liners on, and lace them up. Then I ease them in to the boot. That way you get the tightest, snuggest fit. Plus, at the end of the day, I take everything apart: boots, boot boards, ZipFit liners and footbeds. I leave them out separately to dry overnight.
And my take on ZipFit liners is what Colin told me at www.solutions4feet.com (if I recall correctly): Standard boot liners have to be a bit "soft" and "comfy" as that is what the majority of customers want. But to get a really feel of your boots and skis, and direct transmission of energy, the Zipfits are the way to go. Although initially, they will take a couple of days to break-in.
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You know it makes sense.
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I now have Sidas thermal fit liners which were €200 (in resort) so not far off the Zipfit pricing. Are they really that much worse?
I tried the alternative method of getting into the boots (with laced-up liners) and it works rather well. It does need a specific technique because, with the liner attached to your leg, you now have no handle or strap on the back of the boot to pull on. The only way to get the boots on is as suggested on (I think) the Zipfit website which is to stand the boots on a floor (which should not be slippery) and use your weight to force the liners, with your feet inside, into them. You then have both hands free to open up the boots, which is necessary.
However the laces don't seem to do very much on the Sidas liners. They enable the liner to be somewhat snug on the foot but no more.
Funny to think these boots have by now cost me about €750, including some Sidas insoles for €100.
Presumably you may as well not bother with putting the boots on a boot dryer. Just the liners need drying overnight. I have my own dryer since more than half of the places I've been to have either none or they don't work.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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After a days skiing i tend to wipe out the shell with a small microfibre towel, and then let my liners air dry. I am very careful with boot dryers because some can be too hot and undo all that hard work heat holding our liner to fit your foot perfectly!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| wardy89 wrote: |
| After a days skiing i tend to wipe out the shell with a small microfibre towel, and then let my liners air dry. I am very careful with boot dryers because some can be too hot and undo all that hard work heat holding our liner to fit your foot perfectly! |
That is actually yet another benefit of Zipfits, albeit tangentially: used as recommended, your liners are out of the boot at the end of each day, and therefore everything dries better overnight. Sure, you can do that with any liner, but how many bother doing that extra step, especially with foam liners which are that much stiffer, and therefore harder to extract/re-insert.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Can anyone offer a view of Sidas liners versus Zipfit liners?
I can't see any obvious difference on the websites, and the price is roughly similar.
Both thermal fit.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Zipfits are not thermal fit in the conventional sense. Zipfits can be warmed to speed the moulding process, but that process continues as you wear them. They do not “set” the same way as a thermal liner, like Intuition, or presumably the Sidas.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Peter Stevens wrote: |
Can anyone offer a view of Sidas liners versus Zipfit liners?
I can't see any obvious difference on the websites, and the price is roughly similar.
Both thermal fit. |
Longevity waaay better with Zipfit plus you can add filler.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I’m pretty sure when CEM put me in my zipfits they were cold, as were the shells. Just told to go ski in them.
Took them off after first day to find perfectly moulded outlines of my ankles embossed into each liner.
Very pleased.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| kerb wrote: |
I’m pretty sure when CEM put me in my zipfits they were cold, as were the shells. Just told to go ski in them.
Took them off after first day to find perfectly moulded outlines of my ankles embossed into each liner.
Very pleased. |
That's unusual as they're normally heat moulded, not only to your feet but to the inside of the boot.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| kerb wrote: |
I’m pretty sure when CEM put me in my zipfits they were cold, as were the shells. Just told to go ski in them.
Took them off after first day to find perfectly moulded outlines of my ankles embossed into each liner.
Very pleased. |
That's unusual as they're normally heat moulded, not only to your feet but to the inside of the boot. |
I’m sure you’re right then, they must have been warmed up, but it all seemed a pretty straightforward process.
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| Peter Stevens wrote: |
Can anyone offer a view of Sidas liners versus Zipfit liners?
I can't see any obvious difference on the websites, and the price is roughly similar.
Both thermal fit. |
what made you go for the sidas liners and not zipfit?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Availability. Zipfits are sold in extremely few places.
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| Peter Stevens wrote: |
| Availability. Zipfits are sold in extremely few places. |
do you like them? ill be going for some custom ones later in the season. The ones in my zero G's just dont feel like theyregona last long
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FAQ
