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Pieps Jetforce as good as Black Diamond Version?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi
Found the Pieps JF for sale at £686, which seems a good deal. Looks like a pricing error on the website but I'll give it a go. It's about 60 quid cheaper than the BD. The pieps picture doesn't show a waist belt, but the rest of it seems the same and they say that the zip on covers are interchgangable, so they must be very similar.

I've searched for pictures of the Pieps showing a belt. No success.
Searched for videos of Pieps and can't find a single one of the Pro version.


Surely it must have a decent waist belt, otherwise it wouldn't be much blummin use as an airbag

Advice needed please (quickly, before the 20% off expires)
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Doh found a vid. Should have searched for Piepes BT, not Pieps Pro
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Scott Patrol E1 AP 30 with supercapacitor technology is better in every respect with no flying restrictions: https://www.thepisteoffice.com/index.php/the-piste-office-store/backpacks-airbags/scott-patrol-e1-ap30-electric-detail.html
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@spyderjon, The Pieps and BD jet force has no flying restrictions.

I agree that the Scott is better and is the best technology now. To @TheGeneralist, £686 is expensive. I got my BD 3 years ago for < £500.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@TheGeneralist, Pieps and Black Diamond are the same company, so the internal battery/electronics of the packs are the same, it’s only the packs that differ.

The packs clearly have waist straps, it’s something so basic that they haven’t mentioned it.

https://www.pieps.com/en/cat/pieps-jetforce
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Hi again.
Many thanks for the input. I thought the JF was a collaboration between Pieps and BD. Didn't realise they are the same company.
In terms of price, there were old versions cheaper than 686, but I've never seen the pro for that price before, or interchangeable packs...



Could you elaborate on what makes the Scott better. Keen to learmore.

Ta
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@TheGeneralist, click on @spyderjon's link and read the description.

If you thought £686 was good then £699 is an extra £13 very well spent.
It is far better.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@TheGeneralist, I didn't realise that BD now have a lighter version of the Pro at 3kg and also a "tour" with the app-ride version at 2.5- 2.7kg. I have an original at 3.4kg.. see it being deployed at the beginning of the SH video


http://youtube.com/v/XrSjIFY7P_U

So I guess there is nothing in it these days. I would see which one feels the best on.
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I’ve got the Scott Alpride E1 22 and 30L versions.

The 22 is better in a few ways – all minor stuff, but minor stuff that matters in use.
1) Helmet carrier (maybe the 30 has it this year, but last year’s didn’t)
2) Compression straps go across the zip, rather than stressing the zip (BIG improvement IMO)
3) Pack is noticeably slimmer
4) Furry goggle pocket dropped – I viewed this as excess weight.
5) Overall a few hundred g lighter (tho' obviously it's also smaller)
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snowdave wrote:
I’ve got the Scott Alpride E1 22 and 30L versions.

The 22 is better in a few ways – all minor stuff, but minor stuff that matters in use.
1) Helmet carrier (maybe the 30 has it this year, but last year’s didn’t)
2) Compression straps go across the zip, rather than stressing the zip (BIG improvement IMO)
3) Pack is noticeably slimmer
4) Furry goggle pocket dropped – I viewed this as excess weight.
5) Overall a few hundred g lighter (tho' obviously it's also smaller)


Very few people will buy a 22L and a 30L. Most people will be choosing between the 22L & the 30L. Between the two I can't understand why anyone would want the 22L version unless they are 160cm or less in height - just not enough net space after allowing for the E1 unit and the shorter length restricts the shovel/probe size that can be carried. The 220g weight saving isn't worth it IMO as the 30L is so much more versatile at the same price. The compression straps are the same as all of Scotts other packs over the years (RAS/Alpride gas) and there's absolutely no issue with them &/or the zips etc. Yes, the 30L has the helmet carrier. 22L is 54 x 26 x 19cm versus the 30L at 60 x 28 x 19cm - so how can that be "noticeably slimmer"?

For a two pack solution most people go 22L & 40L or 30L & 40L which is a lot more practical.
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GlasgowCyclops wrote:
@spyderjon, The Pieps and BD jet force has no flying restrictions........

The BD Jetforce Pro hasn't but I thought the OP was asking about the BD Jetforce which has the Alpride gas cylinder system.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@TheGeneralist, if it's a BD pack you're after then get the BD Jetforce Tour as that has the same E1 supercapacitor system as the Scott Patrol AP30, except that it's only 26L v 30L and the pack spec is inferior.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
spyderjon wrote:
snowdave wrote:
I’ve got the Scott Alpride E1 22 and 30L versions.

The 22 is better in a few ways – all minor stuff, but minor stuff that matters in use.
1) Helmet carrier (maybe the 30 has it this year, but last year’s didn’t)
2) Compression straps go across the zip, rather than stressing the zip (BIG improvement IMO)
3) Pack is noticeably slimmer
4) Furry goggle pocket dropped – I viewed this as excess weight.
5) Overall a few hundred g lighter (tho' obviously it's also smaller)


Very few people will buy a 22L and a 30L. Most people will be choosing between the 22L & the 30L. Between the two I can't understand why anyone would want the 22L version unless they are 160cm or less in height - just not enough net space after allowing for the E1 unit and the shorter length restricts the shovel/probe size that can be carried. The 220g weight saving isn't worth it IMO as the 30L is so much more versatile at the same price. The compression straps are the same as all of Scotts other packs over the years (RAS/Alpride gas) and there's absolutely no issue with them &/or the zips etc. Yes, the 30L has the helmet carrier. 22L is 54 x 26 x 19cm versus the 30L at 60 x 28 x 19cm - so how can that be "noticeably slimmer"?

For a two pack solution most people go 22L & 40L or 30L & 40L which is a lot more practical.


I realise very few will buy both, which is why I thought a view from someone who had both (and thus didn't have a dog in the fight, so to speak), might help! I have both because I have the 22l for my son and the 30L for me.

The compression straps differ between my 30 and my 22. On the 22 they don't load the zip since they are mounted on either side of it so when you cinch them down, they pull across the zip. On the 30 they stress the zip since they are both mounted on one side of it and when you cinch them they load the zip. Strap-side panel-strap-zip-back panel on the 30, strap- side panel - zip - strap on the 22L. Have they changed this for 2020 on the 30L?

Also to add - it may be a sewing error on my 30L vs a design error, but the bottom velcro for the tools pocket is in the wrong place (and thus redundant) which slightly limits tool pocket length. On the 22L this is correct, such that you can poke tools through the pocket and actually fit the same size tools as the 30L takes. All my shovels fit both.

A couple of friends who've looked at both of my packs both opted for the 22L.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
With the 30L pack with a longer shovel/probe you undo the velcro so that the tools slide right through - and as the 30L is a longer/wider pack it'll then take longer/wider tools.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
.
Quote:

@TheGeneralist, click on @spyderjon's link and read the description.

Yes. I did that. Obviously. It would have been rude not to. But I'm still non the wiser which specific ones of that spec are better than the BD JFP.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@TheGeneralist, I saw both the Pieps and BD bags in the shop when I got my boots fitted. The guy there reckoned they were pretty much the same, just rebadged, which makes sense if you know they’re the same company.

I tried one on and I know I’m little, but it was about 15cm too long for my back, so look elsewhere if you’re short (prob Scott 22L).
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Scarlet. Very useful thanks. The large ones are sixty quid cheaper and I was going to get them, but rest of the family are short arsed so maybe I need to get them small one.

Cheers
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@TheGeneralist, without going in to mega detail the E1 supercap system and the BD battery system are very similar but even though the new/latest BD battery system is a lot lighter than the original it's still heavier than the E1 system and has no risk of being effected by temperature (there have been some temperature related issues with the BD batteries reported). I've supplied a number of full time Piste Patrol/Avi blasters who have free BD battery systems for work with the Scott E1's for their personal use.

However, when the E1 supercap system (made by Alpride in Switzerland) came out last season Scott only had exclusive use of it for a year so for this 19/20 season you can also get the E1 system in a BD pack and it's called the BD Jetforce Tour. BD also do another pack call the Jetforce UL which uses Alpride's twin gas cylinder system. So for 19/20 BD offer three Jetforce packs, all with different internal systems:

Jetforce Pro - with their battery system. Available in 35L, 25L & 10L versions.
Jetforce Tour - with the E1 supercap system. Available 26L only but they do slightly shorter version which is 24L. I'd expected other sizes will come next season.
Jetforce UL - with the Alpride twin cylinder gas system

Clear as mud isn't it! You can now see why the main criteria to get a job in a ski industry marketing dept is to be a moron!

To add to the confusion Alpride themselves are also making a pack containing their E1 system call the Alpride Supercap 30 but it's a lot more expensive than the Scott & BD Tour packs and I believe they're only available in Switzerland.

In addition to lightening their Jetforce Pro battery pack for this season, BD have also brought down the price to try to compete with the E1 system but they're still dearer at list price. If you see some heavily discounted Jetforce Pro's then do you research as they're likely to be the original heavy weight version that weight a ton in comparison.

IMO you want a pack that has the E1 system which means that you're buying decision boils down to a between the actual packs, either the Scotts or the BD's. For a durability/longevity there's nothing in it and both brands have a proven track record and their current pack designs have been around for a good few years now with no issues. Scott's customer service is second to none. BD's customer service in the UK used to be poor but from last season their winter sports UK distributor changed to Bradshaw Taylor (who had previously only handled BD's climbing gear) and they're excellent too.

The biggest differences are in the design of the packs, and the Scott's win hands down IMO. Apart from the number of nifty little features there's a few major ones that set them apart:

- the BD packs are waaaay bulkier (in the front to back dim) and they don't have compression straps. BD know this which is why they don't publish the dimensions of their packs. I've been repeatedly asking them for the dimensions and they've never got back to me.
- the BD packs only have a diagonal ski carry feature whereas with the Scott's you can either A frame/parallel carry or carry diagonally. Yes, the Scott bag will deploy when carrying skis using the A frame/parallel feature.
- The Scott packs contain a TUV certified had back protector.

The biggest problem with the Scott packs is availability. Scott's production is made to dealer orders and pretty much everyone is already sold out. I've only got one 30L full system pack left and have completely sold out of the 22L & 40L sizes in both the full systems and the packs only and I'm also out of the 30L packs only. I posted in the Equipment Section early season that this would be the case and if anyone wanted one they'd need to be quick.
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Spjon. Yours reply made me smile then proper laugh. Absolutely excellent. Many, many thanks for going to the trouble of writing all that. Much appreciated.

Lots of good info in there. Especially the difference between the cycinder, capacitor and battery BDs. clarified it beauitifuly. I will have a rethink.

If you were to get two more Scott 22l in then PM me the price for them. I presume you run a shop? Or a URL

Many thanks again. Legend.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Scratch that last bit. Found it. I was indeed on your website yesterday.


/Goes off on search of s 22l Scott backpack to put spjons available airbag kit into
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Presumably your comments about the BD being to bulky don't relate to the 10 JF Pro?
It's emaciated.
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@TheGeneralist, I have the Scott 30L and reckon the 22L would be too small based on why I can fit in mine. The capacitor / fan compartment takes space in the pack and I think would make the 22L only suitable for a minimalist day once you have included a shovel, probe, spare goggles and leaving room for skins and crampons if touring. The 30L does not feel bulky at all and no need to remove when riding a chair lift which is why they are so popular and the no-brainier of the range. You can also buy the packs without the airbag and mechanisms and swap over if sizing needs change but I suspect swapping from a 30L to a 22L is not worth the time / hassle.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Unfortunately backpack manufacturers seem to think that we all want to carry pea sized balls, which are what they use to measure the interior volume of packs. They fill the pack to the brim with little balls, then tip them out and measure the volume from that. A much better test would be to use tennis ball sized balls, or litre bottles of water, which would give a better representation of the odd shaped objects we carry.

I’ve had the ABS Vario with ABS and Dakine zip-off packs between 10-40ltr, Pieps Jetforce 24ltr and 34ltr, and now the Scott E1 Patrol 40ltr. The Scott is by far the best designed out of these packs, with the only thing that needs improvement is the helmet carry.

For some reason on the helmet carry Scott used sturdy adjustable plastic clips for the top clips, then used very short pieces of Velcro for the bottom ones, which can pulled apart relatively easily causing your helmet to fall out. I’ll be replacing the Velcro with mini-carabineers or similar.
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@PowderAdict, I agree about the helmet carrier... I just use a mini carabiner to secure the helmet strap to one of the loops on the bag, while in helmet carrier, to avoid a situation helmet falls off rolls down the mountain!
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@Ozboy, I think I've just found the original G clips that Scott used for the helmet carry. I've just ordered some and also what looks like a stronger metal version to replace the Velcro.

https://www.adventurexpert.com/product/adjustable-webbing-hook-15mm/

https://www.adventurexpert.com/product/aluminium-acetal-adjustable-webbing-g-hook-buckle/
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@PowderAdict, Thanks- I am struggling to picture how these G clips will replace the velcro as I am not currently with my bag. Could you please post a pic once you have fitted them?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Will do. I’m going to unstitch the Velcro completely, and then stitch in a short length of 15mm webbing so they will be similar to the top clips.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@PowderAdict, That's way too crafty for my lack of sewing experience - do you know if there are some 'loops' present near the velcro where I can attach mini carabiners? Otherwise I may be able to fuse the velcro into a permanent loop around your suggested G clips using some superglue or similar.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
You should be able to loop the Velcro through the new clip, as you currently do to attach to the current loops on the daisy-chain, and then superglue it closed together. All the adjustments are then at the other end as before, and you can unclip at both ends when not needed.

It will be a week before I get home and make the modification.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@PowderAdict, I will be with the bag this weekend and will measure the width of the velcro hopefully find a clip locally in resort.
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