There seems to be one most years. Youngsters leave Avalanche night club in the early hours and instead of turning left into town turn right and head up where there is a dangerous drop to Venosc. A french lad this time but there have been Brits too. Police have been everywhere here since yesterday lunchtime but they found his body this afternoon. Tragic RIP.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hmm only referenced it the other week. Seems to happen regularly - does it look like a short cut?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Claude B, very sad; is it impracticable to put a barrier up?
Not really. Heading away from town although there are some apartments etc up there. It is fenced off but it still happens. People just get so pissed they have no idea where they are. A friend lives on the edge further down and had a pissed Eastern European turn up one night, no idea where he was staying or anything. He locked him in his living room and gave him a bed as he feared the same could happen.
I've marked a red blob on this photo where this normally happens, where the photo in the news article is taken. Nothing below until Venosc 800m or so lower. Further round it isn't quite as sheer. In fact there is a footpath down and a mountain bike path too.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@achilles, Crikey 11 years ago Several more since too
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@PeakyB, in the article it says they have put up a barrier and signage. Clearly not working
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@Nadenoodlee, yes but sadly not a very effective barrier it seems.
From the photo, some of those buildings look dangerously close to the edge of the drop. I wonder if they’ll still be standing in 25 years time?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I remember this happening in 1990.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@PeakyB, it's a bit deceptive. My building looks quite close but it's about 50m. Even friends who are on the edge (middle of the photo) have a small garden in front. It doesn't appear to be collapsing (unlike other areas nearby), the lift station is right on the edge and has been there for 50 years.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
It's a huge natural feature. A barricade sufficient to prevent people who are blind drunk falling would be costly and intrusive. It's sad but protecting people from themselves isn't always possible and it's unreasonable to imply that the resort is at fault.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
pam w wrote:
It's a huge natural feature. A barricade sufficient to prevent people who are blind drunk falling would be costly and intrusive. It's sad but protecting people from themselves isn't always possible and it's unreasonable to imply that the resort is at fault.
Though you could say that it should have a. bye-laws in place to reduce alcohol consumption, and b. more policing of the streets. Trouble is a. would reduce resort income, and b. would be a cost on the resort.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@pam w, Its a common occurrence here in Kent where people go missing after a nights drinking to be found a few days later face down in the Medway. Apparently the solution to this for a number of people is to fence to the river off rather than the obvious alternative.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
BergenBergen wrote:
@pam w, Its a common occurrence here in Kent where people go missing after a nights drinking to be found a few days later face down in the Medway. Apparently the solution to this for a number of people is to fence to the river off rather than the obvious alternative.
redirect the river?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
Though you could say that it should have a. bye-laws in place to reduce alcohol consumption, and b. more policing of the streets. Trouble is a. would reduce resort income, and b. would be a cost on the resort.
It's an old-fashioned view, I know, but I think there's a point where people must be deemed to be responsible for their own safety. I also think they should be at liberty to get as drunk as they wish, provided they don't harm anyone else in the process and that adults should be at liberty to smoke themselves to death, leap off high cliffs in wing-suits or ski off piste without a transceiver. Unwise as all those activities are.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@pam w, I don't have a firm view on this. I sympathise with your outlook, but also think that perhaps the resort should have a duty of care. Maybe I am a little biased, I have cut down my skiing to just one week a year, and Les Deux Alpes is where I go. The noise from the drunks coming out of the Avalanche, drove me away from booking at one hotel again, excellent though it otherwise was. Thanks to easiski I found a delightful alternative, but it is a little less convenient.
Les Deux Alpes is a bit of a party resort though, not somewhere you'd want to go for a quiet holiday. The police are already pretty occupied with fights and stuff after hours let alone patrolling the cliffs. Still if there are more lessons to learn, already the fencing was a change for the good.
Drunks have a habit of climbing, and being quite good at it, for some reason. In the UK they generally head for scaffolding.
A Brit fell to his death over cliffs/steep terrain last night in Meribel. No idea if he had been drinking but he was reportedly walking back to Brides, which seems quite a way at night on slippery ground.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@pam w, maybe an old-fashioned view but IMHO entirely correct. Once you start clamping down on one activity, where do you stop?
@davidof, as someone who has in the past thirty years or so regularly researched alternative resorts, Les Deux Alpes was never really an attractive option for groups I have organised but I never realised it was a bit of a party resort.
Sad to hear about the death in Meribel which I would have thought was a party resort (having stayed there just the once).
... It's an old-fashioned view, I know, but I think there's a point where people must be deemed to be responsible for their own safety. ..
I don't think it's old fashioned.
In any case alcohol kills huge numbers in ways which don't involve drunks jumping off cliffs in the Alps.
In 2017, there were 7,697 alcohol-specific deaths in the UK, 12.2 deaths per 100,000 population.
It's probably easier to start with those huge numbers of people, most of whom are probably not stupid enough to fall off things whilst blind drunk.
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@pam w, I totally agree with you. As long as I don’t have to suffer the smoke.
After all it is free
After all it is free
I used to think Patrick Bel the Police Municipale at the start of this had an easy job. He does during the day and early evening, I'm tucked up in bed when it gets busy.
I've never been to Avalanche although Boris the owner has tried to entice me a few times. I've been in Bresilian twice, the 2nd time until 5am It was my girlfriend's fault.
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The french are very respectful of others grief. There is an outdoor service atm opposite my balcony, where there is a small hill with a cross looking over the ravine. Not a local, a youngster here on holiday from the other side of France. Quite moving.
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@Claude B, nice touch and not surprising from the French.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Perhaps an iluminated sign on the path with "Are you drunk? X Deaths in Y years on this path!"
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Seems to be someone else this week as well, walking home back to Brides Les Bains in the early morning
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
How far would you have to go out of your way to fall off this cliff? Or the Les Allues spot? Is there no way the access can be fenced off? We all make bad decisions when drunk and sometimes it ends in tragedy. If there's a way to reduce the chances of people wandering that way then it can only be a good thing.
I used to walk home between resorts; from La Tania to Le Praz, ,Courch 1650 to 1850 and la Daille to Val D'Isere. I suspect the main things which protected me were there being no obviously advantageous shortcuts or cliffs to fall off, and luck.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Apparently he fell from even further up past where the road finishes. Ended up in the trees up there and messaged his mates to that effect about 3am. They did nothing until the next day. He must have fallen off the edge in the dark soon after messaging them
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Claude B, OMG, that is just awful. They must deeply regret not contacting the gendarmes.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Or his mates were equally drunk as he was?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The 3Vs guy was Corey Watson, 24, a saisonaire, working in Brides-les-Bains, from Northern England.
Given the crowdfunding for repatriation, what is the insurance position of saisonaires? Do they become part of the French system or rely on the European Health Insurance card?
Very sad. These guys should be having the time of their lives
@muddewater, depends if they are working for a UK TO or local employer (like a bar) I guess. UK TO's should (or normally do) provide an insurance policy, but this may or may not only apply during work time (or exclude offpiste and so on), so most do (/should) have extra personal insurance for rescue and repatriation/etc.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@muddewater, when I worked for a T/O in the alps, many years ago, we had an insurance policy supplied from the T/O. I remember having to take my wife, then girlfriend, to the doctors down in moutiers, we had to pay for the treatment which was reimbursed by one of the resort managers.
with regards to the EHIC, this does not cover repatriation.
as others have said, all these recent events are very tragic.
"there for the grace of god", i was once at a seasonaires sports themed party in resort, it was in the rond point bar, and my chalet was in the centre of Meribel, for some reason i was wearing football shorts and top, in a ski resort in feb!!!!!!!!. at the end of the night i decided (very drunk, and stupidly) to walk back to my chalet cross country, downhill through the trees and chalet gardens, the snow must have been at least 2 feet deep.
by the time i arrived home i had basically sobered up, and could not believe how stupid i had been, i could have easily come a cropper and froze to death.
needless to say i didn't try to attempt that ever again.
After all it is free
After all it is free
clarky999 wrote:
Very sad. These guys should be having the time of their lives
I’m not a very good drinker. When I drank more than I should (which is not much), I pass out and totally missed the party. Even not counting the hangover, I often couldn’t remember WHETHER I had a good time or not!
I was smart enough to stop drinking early in order to enjoy the party AND STILL REMEMBER what a good time I had.
So I’m at a lost of the drinking “culture”.
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The young lad who died here was french. They dont really have the same drinking culture as Brits.
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muddewater wrote:
Given the crowdfunding for repatriation, what is the insurance position of saisonaires?
From what I know it varies from relying on EHIC to full cover provided by employer. I know a few workers who have to get their own insurance because employers no longer do it - so, guess what, their parents weighed in and bought some. Young bar workers aged 24 probably don't think for one second about repatriation (especially for their own mortal remains!) and just rely on EHIC and luck.
All that said, if alcohol was deemed to be the main contributory factor (and I don't think anyone can say that for sure despite what gets reported), no insurance company is going to pay out in a hurry.
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