 Poster: A snowHead
|
Oh no, another knee thread 
A week or so before Christmas my knee basically gave way or "buckled" on me, there was sharp pain for a few seconds, I had to stop mid-step for the pain to subside, but afterwards it was fine even though I was somewhat lacking in confidence in it. The same thing happened again, helping a friend move house on Dec 23rd, I was carrying a box up some steps and really thought I was going to go over. I rested it over Christmas, thinking I'd probably over-done something at the gym (I'll expand on that shortly), but had a few twinges even so, so managed to get into see a physio on 3rd Jan.
1st appointment was for the assessment and some treatment, he was amazed at my lack of flexibility (very tight hamstrings and calves), felt the main issue is the patella tendon (there's a definite painful spot that he managed to find there) so worked on that, also my hamstring (definitely a sore point in there even though I wasn't getting any pain) and lower back (he seemed surprised I didn't have any back pain). My lack of flexibility is known to me, it's caused me problems in the past, ranging from extremely painful feet when trying to ski with custom footbeds, to knee problems (and 4 months of physio) when I was doing a lot of running. However, I started going to the gym nearly every day a couple of months before Christmas, have dropped a couple of stones in weight and stretch religiously at the end of every session and am actually much more flexible now than I've been in years.
I generally do an hour of cardio on the cross-trainer as it's low impact, although I did introduce some resistance work 3 times a week a month or so before Christmas, gradually upping the weights, as well as doing a circuits class once a week for a bit of variety (again starting about a month before Christmas). At no point in any of this exercise did I experience pain in the knee, but my gut feeling was that I'd probably either overdone it on the resistance work, or when doing one of the exercises in the circuits class, so, although I started back in the gym on Monday, it has strictly been cross-trainer, a few core exercises designed to improve my flexibility (such as scorpion kicks on front and back) as well as core strength (planks, leg lifts), and then lots of stretching at the end of the session.
The second physio appointment the treatment was fairly similar (ultrasound particularly below the knee and a bit to the outside of it, work on the quads and hamstring, and then quite a lot on the back as I'm apparently very lopsided - sounds like a miracle I can walk if you listen to him  ). Likewise 3rd session (yesterday), and since the first appointment I'd only had the odd twinge which I put down to possibly being more in my head than my knee. Unfortunately yesterday afternoon, carrying something downstairs, it went again, and it's knocked my confidence in the knee again (going skiing on the 29th).
The physio tested the knee for any abnormal range of movement (during his initial assessment) and said that the ligaments are fine and basically it's just that I'm lopsided and not very flexible and there's not a major problem. He said I'm fine doing the cardio and the exercises I'd been doing, and he's given me some additional stretches to do, but I'm wondering if there's anything different I should be doing? There's no residual pain or swelling after each "buckling", but obviously I'm concerned at the thought of it giving way when skiing, both in that I could have an unexpected tumble at speed, and that I might make an already present knee issue worse. Most times I've had it happen have been going up or down stairs, another occasion was after being sat at a table with limited leg room (theatre knee?). The latest episode was after my appointment yesterday, so haven't had a chance to talk to him about it yet. Although there's lots of knee related stuff here, I've not seen anything that isn't a known ligament issue that is consistent with my symptoms, so thought I'd ask if anyone has suffered anything similar, and what the outcome was. Many thanks in advance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Not buckling of the knee but knee pains. I had spent all summer cycling and hiking and all winter skiing. Same thing, tight calves, hamstrings, quads, etc. Lots of massage initially and stretching exercises before and after exercising. Foam roller also helps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
IME. Stretching alone is not enough to free you up.
I suggest that you also see a good "Physical" therapist (different to a Physio), who will really dig in and deal with the scar tissue that will have built up over the years in your muscles. It is painful, but necessary.
Along with that:
1. Use a Trigger Point roller (properly - see online)
2. Use a Tennis Ball, as described here: https://www.diyjointpainrelief.com/
A tight muscle is a weak muscle......and the more you train, the more you have to keep your muscles loose - especially if you have a lack of flexibility (as I do).
Also, use Roller on IT Band....see Videos on this thread: https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=150630
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
It goes without saying it's a proper sports massage. My UK physio is a former Peterborough United and England Hockey team physio. Hurt like hell.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
IME. Stretching alone is not enough to free you up.
I suggest that you also see a good "Physical" therapist (different to a Physio), who will really dig in and deal with the scar tissue that will have built up over the years in your muscles. It is painful, but necessary.
|
That!! In my case an osteopath. Scar tissue was broken down with laser treatments and hot/cold therapy. The mechanics of my body were gradually realigned to work properly (I had exercises to do as well the work done on me at clinic) and I know when the mechanics have gone askew again, as apart from increased pain in my hips and thighs, my knee gives way! Going up, or down, steps or a steep slope is putting a lot of strain on the lower body.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| CaravanSkier wrote: |
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
IME. Stretching alone is not enough to free you up.
I suggest that you also see a good "Physical" therapist (different to a Physio), who will really dig in and deal with the scar tissue that will have built up over the years in your muscles. It is painful, but necessary.
|
That!! In my case an osteopath. Scar tissue was broken down with laser treatments and hot/cold therapy. The mechanics of my body were gradually realigned to work properly (I had exercises to do as well the work done on me at clinic) and I know when the mechanics have gone askew again, as apart from increased pain in my hips and thighs, my knee gives way! Going up, or down, steps or a steep slope is putting a lot of strain on the lower body. |
My scar tissue was so ingrained after a lifetime of sport/exercise, that laser was not that successful. It required Ultrasound to soften the tissue, followed by elbows digging in - then more Ultrasound and more digging in. I had 2 hour sessions of alternating Ultrasound and digging in.
Once freed out, I found somebody less brutal, who does 45 minute sessions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Old Fartbag, Strangely enough the ultrasound did not work on me, so they 'progressed' to the laser treatment, the hot/cold carried on throughout. I think we are all different so what works for one, may not for another. But it is important for optimum recovery to find a health professional that 'knows their stuff', who you can trust, and who has the expertise to find as good a solution as is possible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| CaravanSkier wrote: |
| @Old Fartbag, Strangely enough the ultrasound did not work on me, so they 'progressed' to the laser treatment, the hot/cold carried on throughout. I think we are all different so what works for one, may not for another. But it is important for optimum recovery to find a health professional that 'knows their stuff', who you can trust, and who has the expertise to find as good a solution as is possible. |
The Ultrasound only allowed the therapist to dig deeper than I could have tolerated without it......the scar tissue was removed by brute force, rather than the Ultrasound.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@Old Fartbag, Sounds horrid! Still if the end result was good I`m sure it was worth it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'd go and see a doctor. The treatment hasn't stopped it, and it could be something more serious than a flexibility problem. My mother had sudden buckling in her knee which was caused by a cartilage tear.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
buckling knee is a classic symptom for a meniscus tear.
Make an appointment to see your GP, who should refer you to a specialist or for an MRI
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@pieman666, @Mr.Egg, I'll ask the physio specifically about a torn meniscus and whether he's certain it's not that, if he isn't I'll see my GP, but my experience of getting treatment for anything non-urgent is that it's a long winded and frustrating process which is why I went straight to a physio initially.
@Claude B, @Old Fartbag, @CaravanSkier, I must admit I'm pretty ignorant as to rollers, their uses and benefits, although one of the trainers at the gym offered to show me how to use them and I've not taken her up on it. With a bit of guidance from her and with reference to the video links here I'll give them a try.
One more question, is kinesiology tape something that might be worth considering?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| johnnyboy wrote: |
One more question, is kinesiology tape something that might be worth considering? |
Unlikely to help that much.....and if you're like me, if it's left on for more than a couple of days, it starts to itch.
IME. It's a supplement to the main treatment, rather than an effective remedy.
As for various treatments, there is a lot of good info on "The Google" regarding Foam Rolling, Trigger Point Therapy and Myofascial Release.
Becoming familiar with these techniques, gets you familiar with where your tight spots are and thus where to concentrate your efforts. A muscle in good condition shouldn't hurt when you roll or press it....if it does, then it needs worked on until it doesn't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Sounds like patella femoral symptoms to me.
Typically gives a catching pain that can , at times, make the knee give. Whilst it could be a patella tendon problem the intermittent giving would be unusual. Ultrasound a waste of time for either diagnosis. If not getting better try another physio opinion of get a specialist to see you.
Jonathan Bell
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Personally, I think the post by @Jonathan Bell is by far the most relevant and should be the advice you follow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
+1 for @Jonathan Bell
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@johnnyboy, honest advice, listen to the specialists, ignore internet advice (apart form @Jonathan Bell, )
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@Jonathan Bell, Many thanks. What treatment would you advise for patella femoral? Apart from the ultrasound, the physio is massaging my quads and hamstring (sometimes after attaching a little sucker at various places on the muscles) and twisting and stretching my back to try to correct my lopsideness. He has also given me some exercises to increase my flexibility, over and above the ones I've already been doing for hamstrings, calves and quads. Does this at least sound appropriate?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| johnnyboy wrote: |
| @Jonathan Bell, Many thanks. What treatment would you advise for patella femoral? Apart from the ultrasound, the physio is massaging my quads and hamstring (sometimes after attaching a little sucker at various places on the muscles) and twisting and stretching my back to try to correct my lopsideness. He has also given me some exercises to increase my flexibility, over and above the ones I've already been doing for hamstrings, calves and quads. Does this at least sound appropriate? |
I certainly can't speak for, or with the authority of Jonathon Bell - but you need to know if the Physio has considered/ruled out the issues mentioned by JB. If you don't get a feeling of confidence, look for a different Physio or Specialist.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| johnnyboy wrote: |
| @Jonathan Bell, Many thanks. What treatment would you advise for patella femoral? Apart from the ultrasound, the physio is massaging my quads and hamstring (sometimes after attaching a little sucker at various places on the muscles) and twisting and stretching my back to try to correct my lopsideness. He has also given me some exercises to increase my flexibility, over and above the ones I've already been doing for hamstrings, calves and quads. Does this at least sound appropriate? |
I certainly can't speak for, or with the authority of Jonathon Bell - but you need to know if the Physio has considered/ruled out the issues mentioned by JB. If you don't get a feeling of confidence, look for a different Physio or Specialist. |
Ditto
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| kitenski wrote: |
| @johnnyboy, honest advice, listen to the specialists, ignore internet advice (apart form @Jonathan Bell, ) |
I would still see a GP for a referral
no harm in attacking it from 2x angles
If it can be fixed by physio, then he can cancel any specialist appointment.
If it cant be, then at least he is already in the queue.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| johnnyboy wrote: |
| @Jonathan Bell, Many thanks. What treatment would you advise for patella femoral? Apart from the ultrasound, the physio is massaging my quads and hamstring (sometimes after attaching a little sucker at various places on the muscles) and twisting and stretching my back to try to correct my lopsideness. He has also given me some exercises to increase my flexibility, over and above the ones I've already been doing for hamstrings, calves and quads. Does this at least sound appropriate? |
The treatment of patella femoral pain is to address the risk factors like tight muscles. Strengthen those muscles that are weaker. Consider if your foot position needs improving. Improving posture and movement amoungst others. Some cases are simple, other more complex - surgery is rare.
Massage/ suckers/ manipulations would not usually be what I would expect a physio treating patella pain to be doing.
It may be worth a second opinion from a different physio.
Jonathan Bell
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Jonathan Bell, Many thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
