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A couple of intermediatey questions...

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
...if i may, please..?

The first one I’m not sure if its best here or in the fitness forum, but here goes…

I’m approaching my 5th week of skiing shortly. The last couple of years I’ve suffered with serious ITB pain (outsides of thighs) for the first 3 days, partly ameliorated every night with a foam roller (and of course medicinal single malt). Generally by the 4th day it suddenly goes away.

I’m guessing I’m overcontrolling/trying too hard? It doesn’t help I’m a bit of a headbanger – queuing up for the first lift and then, bar food stops, will keep on smashing out the runs until they shut again.
I’m generally in pretty good shape – serious mountainbiker, same weight as I was 25 years ago (mid 40s now) and I work pretty hard on core and flexibility. I can generally make a decent fits of anything pisted, like challenging myself on the un-bashed “Natur” runs and the odd bit of cheeky off piste.

Any pointers for relaxing, avoiding or minimizing the pain…?

The second one is definitely a technique thing – powder for numpties. Had my first experiences of it last year. The on piste stuff was generally OK, albeit a bit slow and disconcerting when coupled with average visibility, but then it was only 9” or so deep, but as someone who’s cocky/committed/stupid enough to be constantly trying new stuff, I’ve been trying to link bits between pistes, cut corners or try some easy tree runs (which is where my MTBers heart lies) and a couple of times I hit deep patches of (not very steep) snow where trying to carry speed and straightline with the ski tips submerged in the snow, one would suddenly grab and shoot off sideways, so quickly I couldn’t counteract it, resulting in a lost ski, a snow angel and a lot of swimming and faffing to get going again.

It all happens rather quick, so I’ve not really got a feel for what I’m actually doing wrong. Its entirely possible I’m being too tentative and not driving the skis hard enough. I think I’m staying fairly neutral position wise – certainly not trying to lean back to keep the tips up out of the snow, as I’m of the understanding this is considered bad form now?

I’m usually trying to follow close to a set of existing tracks as I’m not sufficiently knowledgeable to be going “properly” offpiste, so there’s definitely a line to be had…

Advice gratefully received!

Cheers,

Jon
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Almost certainly technique, unlikely to have anything to do with your fitness (I'm fat and lazy but don't generally suffer from thigh burn). I'd guess that you're too back seat but easiest thing is to get some decent lessons.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Do you regularly use something like the Trigger Point Roller for the IT Band?

See this Video - Note the flexing of the lower leg, as the ITB is rolled out. Warning - it hurts like hell.


http://youtube.com/v/PY9L1_oUJM4

Another take:


http://youtube.com/v/aHkEmhyAGgY


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 8-01-20 18:38; edited 1 time in total
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Stretching before and after skiing. Quads, calves, etc. Itb stretching is possible too.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Yup - as mentioned in the original post, i take a foam roller with me - takes up remarkably little volume in your luggage if you fill it with socks!.

...and yes, it hurts like hell...!

So I'd rather avoid the need for it if possible. Its the way the pain suddenly vanishes on the 4th day that gets me.

Thigh burn (quads) isn't an issue. I'm not aware of being backseaty and have no issue turning - one of the crossover benefits from MTBs is being happy diving into a steep corner with your weight on the front wheel for grip
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You'll need to Register first of course.
CoticJon wrote:
Yup - as mentioned in the original post, i take a foam roller with me - takes up remarkably little volume in your luggage if you fill it with socks!.

...and yes, it hurts like hell...!

So I'd rather avoid the need for it if possible. Its the way the pain suddenly vanishes on the 4th day that gets me.

Thigh burn (quads) isn't an issue. I'm not aware of being backseaty and have no issue turning - one of the crossover benefits from MTBs is being happy diving into a steep corner with your weight on the front wheel for grip

Sorry, I missed the Foam Roller bit. Embarassed

The Roller needs to be pretty firm....and the rolling technique needs to be correct ie. Not just rolling up and down the outside of the leg.

I don't have a specific ITB problem - but still regularly use a Trigger Point Roller - which is very firm.

The best leg strengthening exercise for skiing that I've come across, are Leg Blasters: https://sawback.com/articles/leg-blasters/
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
From your description it does sound like you are "unloading" the front of the ski. If you sit on the tails then the front being light will very easily steer itself on whichever edge becomes loaded laterally and use the anchored tail as a pivot point.

The unpredictability of one ski heading off without the other would seem to confirm this.

As you say about sticking an mtb in with the front loaded, try really emphasising that to get both the tips skiing as one ski effectively. If you go over the handlebars, then you probably need more front on the ski's to support you. Very Happy
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I had IT band issues for a while due to running and reaching the age of 40. It had something to do with repetition and age in my view. What removed the issue is what you are doing, using a foam roller, stretching your IT band, and GOING IN A SAUNA.

A sauna after skiing will relax the band extra. It will stop it tightening up which causes the pain at the adhesion points where the IT band attaches.

Getting experienced with the foam roller, and not just running it up and down the it band. Find the point where the pain is greatest by slowly rolling up and down, then hold it there for 30 seconds. Then release and let the blood flow. Do this again, and then have a SAUNA.

The points at which muscles join to bones is much more fibrous than meaty muscle parts. As you age you lose collagen and these become stiffer and less flexible. Heat helps, bone broth might give you the nuitrients you need to improve these adhesion points.

Also consider the muscles and tendons which attach to the ITB. These can be tight too, and release them and the IT band will relax. The Gluteus maximus needs a good rolling too, using the technique I described earlier.

I just watched the first video, the TFL is definitely where I spend some time too. I move around and bend joints to get right into the muscle too. Sometimes I use a tennis ball, or tennis balls in a sock. I have these pointy balls, but mine keep bursting.


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Wed 8-01-20 19:50; edited 1 time in total
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
What skis are you using in what length (what is your weight and height)?

Re Technique - This Video about Thigh Steering might help, as it works the uphill Ski:


http://youtube.com/v/3gUAq3k3wvE
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Thanks for the replies so far - those leg blasters look fun...!

Ski length - generally seem to end up in the 165-170 range. I'm 178 tall, 64kgish (subject to Raclette proximity - weight tends to increase when its close)
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
CoticJon wrote:
... I’m approaching my 5th week of skiing shortly. The last couple of years I’ve suffered with serious ITB pain (outsides of thighs) for the first 3 days, partly ameliorated every night with a foam roller (and of course medicinal single malt). Generally by the 4th day it suddenly goes away. ... Any pointers for relaxing, avoiding or minimizing the pain…?
Sounds like DOMS. I always get that at the start of the season. I used to suck it up but these days I just take prophylactic Ibuprofen for the first 3 days.
Alternatively massage and beer can relieve symptoms for an evening, but drugs are cheaper.
This isn't about fitness or technique.

Quote:
... powder for numpties. ... only 9” or so deep .... I hit deep patches of (not very steep) snow where trying to carry speed and straightline with the ski tips submerged in the snow, one would suddenly grab and shoot off sideways, so quickly I couldn’t counteract it, resulting in a lost ski, a snow angel and a lot of swimming and faffing to get going again. ... Advice gratefully received!
Tough to say without seeing it. That's not a lot of experience, so you're probably doing fine and just require more practice.

Actually if you are going to fall, then doing it on a steep section is the best approach, because it's much easier to get up, and you don't have to paddle/ pole out of it afterwards.

If your skis are shooting off in weird directions that suggests to me (a snowboarder) that the ski which is wandering off is taking less of your weight than the one which isn't.
Ya want to have your weight distributed across both skis, so they both behave themselves and track as you'd expect.
Your weight should also be centred and you should not be looking at your tips (where they are is a design feature of the ski: they don't need to breathe air in order to turn).
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
CoticJon wrote:
Thanks for the replies so far - those leg blasters look fun...!

Ski length - generally seem to end up in the 165-170 range. I'm 178 tall, 64kgish (subject to Raclette proximity - weight tends to increase when its close)

If you get a snowfall while there - try hiring something wider (88 - 92 underfoot) and a little longer (175 - 180) for a day, as this will make life easier......I'm assuming you are on a Piste Ski
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Old Fartbag,

thanks for that ITB/TFL vid - very educational! I have a few issues and this looks like it will help
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
jedster wrote:
@Old Fartbag,

thanks for that ITB/TFL vid - very educational! I have a few issues and this looks like it will help


No problem.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Some links I have in my favourites regarding it band and associated muscles

https://www.massagetherapyreference.com/it-band-massage/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_fasciae_latae_muscle
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