 Poster: A snowHead
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As someone who has never raced or owned race skis I thought some people might be interested in my reflections of spending a couple of days on my "new" toys.
I bought these:
2009/10 Salomon 3V SL LAB Slalom 165cm FIS Ski
from fellow snowhead quadwould for 100 quid (and Davide was kind enough to drop them off at my office - thanks very much!).
I was genuinely a bit nervous before I skied on them - as you'd expect, they are heavy and stiff.
They were a real pleasure and the most fun skis I've used on piste.
I've never skied anything as short or with as tight a radius (although the running length is not that short vs a lot of rockered recreational skis).
I was worried about a couple of things - excessive rebound making them very tiring to handle and sidecut making them awkward to pivot and slide when necessary.
In practice neither were a problem at all. The tight natural radius means that you don't need to set a high edge angle and apply a lot of pressure to carve a manageable turn. If you don't tip them over a long way then you don't have a dramatic rebound to handle but the riser and narrow waist means they are really quick edge to edge. Of course if you DO tip them to a high angle you carve a REALLY tight turn with G forces that put a grin on your face and then you do get a "virtual mogul" rebound to play with but you don't have to ski them like that. They are also super smooth - just carve through the ripples and clumps without any vibration or chatter.
In combination I found that this gave me the confidence to ski faster. Generally what limits my speed is my desire to leave big safety margins to other skiers - not just room for me to avoid them but room so that less confident skiers are not made nervous . Because I had total confidence in the edge grip and knew I could tighten up the turn at will or flick over onto the other edges in an instant I knew I could manouvre away from hazards cleanly and elegantly without having to throw the skis sideways.
What really surprised me was that they do pivot and slide predictably too but I guess that is sometimes needed in the gates.
Obviously they are not the optimal choice off piste but they were certainly manageable in the largely skied out conditions we had. Fine in the bumps too where you just need to use the shape to carve around the bumps a little more (although I did discover that poking the spike of a slalom tip into the side of a mogul isn't ideal  ).
All in all I was left thinking that these are the perfect piste ski. If you have room in your locker for a pure piste ski then I wouldn't bother with a compromise just go for the pure expression of a short carving machine. I won't be on these all that many days but when I'm skiing in anything but really soft conditions with people who prefer to stick to the piste then I'll love having these to put a grin on my face.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Interesting, thanks for the insight. It's been years since I've skied anything under 90mm underfoot and lately I've had a vague hankering for a proper piste ski. Conditions in Cham aren't super conducive to off piste at the minute and I'm off to Courmayeur for a piste and pizza day on Wednesday, maybe I'll hire some...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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don't know if you can hire full bore FIS spec but I'm sure you'd have fun on recreationally detuned versions. I'd really recommend it as a change.
I've not skied anything under a 18m radius before these. I'm most commonly skiing on 108mm waist and 28m radius. I do have an old pair of skis with woodcore, two layers of metal and 75mm waist / 18m radius which get a run out from time to time (and I love). The slaloms ski a lot like those on piste only more so and better IYSWIM.
I can carve turns on the 108mm but it's a bit like saying a surgeon could operate with a kitchen knife! She could do it but the results would not be as good!
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I'd probably just hire a piste performance ski, rather than a race ski (although I will have a noodle round some shops). My day to day ski is 102mm underfoot with 21m radius so something 70-75mm and 13-16mm radius would be an interesting change. I will see if I can find proper FIS spec though as that would be really interesting! I'd probably be quite nervous as well!
As you say, I can carve my 102s but only when conditions are good. If it hasn't snowed for a while and I'm skiing hard pistes I do get the feeling I'm not having as much fun as I could be.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@jedster, Wrote - "I've never skied anything as short …" what would your normal ski length be ? (just curious..)
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Shortest other ski is 174 - that's a traditional camber with no rocker 18m radius
Also have a 179 which is a twin tip but no rocker and basically has the same running length
I ski mostly on some 186 with tip rocker and flat tail
also 180 with twin rocker
Both the latter skis have shorter running length than the 174...
I'm about 176 tall and 73kg FWIW
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I have some Atomic SL11s in a 157, which are not the full FIS spec (obviously, given the length), but give a good taste of what you are talking about. They seem to have two built-in settings. "More relaxed" and "Holy Shyte, stay forward and hang on for dear life". They are the most fun I've had on a Piste Ski. They weigh considerably more (if not twice as much) as my 180 Scott "The Ski".
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I went skiing a few years ago with a well known UK ski club. Almost everyone else in the group was on the 155 slalom skis they used for dry slope racing. They took every slope at high speed carving tight turns from top to bottom. They were a real pleasure to ski with.
Having watched my son belt down deep powder on slalom skis I think we are a bit obsessed with long wide skis.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I really miss my Dobermann SLs. Especially on a day like today, just blatting around on piste, for the exercise.
Remarkably good in powder.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@under a new name, I found them ok in some chopped up off piste today but generally I find the tails too stiff for my level of balance and ability if there is any heavy snow or breakable crust. I often get the tails locked in during turns which doesn't feel too nice 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| jedster wrote: |
As someone who has never raced or owned race skis I thought some people might be interested in my reflections of spending a couple of days on my "new" toys.
I bought these:
2009/10 Salomon 3V SL LAB Slalom 165cm FIS Ski
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The important thing about skiing is pleasure... So if you are happy about your new toys, that's very good.
But I have tested a few FIS skis, I usually find them very demanding and not suited at all for a recreational use.
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I own 3 pairs of FIS GS, one of SG and used to have the same Dobies @jedster discusses. All are a blast and absolutely fine in general recreational use.
The only things I’d suggest probably aren’t are DH skis and my chum’s Dobie SGs which I just felt too light to be able to dominate.
That said, I spent the first 15 years of my adult life on skis that were longer and had way less sidecut, which may contribute ... 
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You know it makes sense.
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FIS SLs are great on regular piste but they'll hand your ass to you in moguls. Think I'd prefer my Redeemers there
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| FIS SLs are great on regular piste but they'll hand your ass to you in moguls. Think I'd prefer my Redeemers there |
Funny how people have different tastes!
I found the SLs fine in the bumps - stiffness not ideal but turning circle compensated.
I have some redeemers and unless the bumps were very soft I'd much prefer the SLs
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Poster: A snowHead
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@proskilab,
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But I have tested a few FIS skis, I usually find them very demanding and not suited at all for a recreational use.
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I was nervous about that but found the SLs very user friendly as I describe.
I'd have thought GS and SG skis would be much more demanding in that they need to be skied really fast to bend into sensible turn shapes and that is not that viable on open pistes?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| jedster wrote: |
| I'd have thought GS and SG skis would be much more demanding in that they need to be skied really fast to bend into sensible turn shapes and that is not that viable on open pistes? |
For GS and SG it's quite true but it depends on few things. First, what someone consider as "skiing". You can easily slide and skid any GS or SG ski down the hill at 10km/h, but if you want to turn them properly, 60km/h is about bottom limit where real WC stock GS starts to function properly. Under that, you just don't have enough speed to have high enough angles to properly bend it. For SG add another 10-15km/h. Now can you ski safely at 80-90km/h on open slopes? Personally I can, but I pick places and dates, as there's no way to do this always and everywhere.
But either way, and it goes especially for GS/SG skis, you need to have proper (not recreational) technique to ski them the way they are intended to be skied, while SL are a bit more forgiving and you can actually leisurely cruise around.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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^ that makes complete sense to me not that I've ever skied FIS GS/SG boards
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@primoz, yep. My Volkl SGs are surprisingly maniable, because they are surprisingly easy to slide. So I can use them anywhere, just mostly not as intended.
GSs I think rather more possible. Anyway, I’m taking my GSs out tomorrow I think, so we’ll see
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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point taken about pivoting and sliding but I guess the question is WHY you would go out on them not whether you could
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btw - I like the idea of your SGs being mania-able
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@jedster why? For me, because they are most fun skis you can have  Personally I really enjoy skiing on GS or SG skis, and for me skiing them makes more fun then skiing any other ski.... ok maybe except my pow skis on perfect conditions, which unfortunately are only 2 or 3 times a year.
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FAQ
The SL is so much fun, amazing edging and turning ability. Bloody heavy with the race plate though and I have to have the DIN 1.5 higher than my usual setting as I can't really afford a new binding, plus I wouldn't want a ski to pop off at speed 
