 Poster: A snowHead
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Yesterday I took part in a women's ski event which was sponsored by Elan skis. It included the opportunity to test some of their skis, and a “tech talk”, 15 min of marketing spiel about the skis. They were nice and gave us free swag, so I didn't really mind, but there was one thing that came up that I challenged them on.
The skis we were testing were brand new and from the 20/21 range, so they're not on the website yet. It looks to me like most are a top sheet update, or a subtle tweak and name change on the current range. Graphics wise, the new women's Ripstick is quite nice, but the all-mountain skis are along similar lines to the current range – nothing particularly exciting, but completely inoffensive. I have no issues with them, and if I was buying one, I don't think the graphic would affect my decision either way.
Most of the skis in the rack were (understandably) from the women's range. Nothing to compare them to directly, but it seemed the brand were concentrating on weight and making the women's skis lighter. Fair enough, although one of the reasons they offered for this was that “our boyfriends don't always want to carry our skis”  When discussing the graphics, they said they wanted to appeal more to women “by getting a bit more pink in there, because that's a women's colour, and more flowers...” Luckily, these views seem to have so far stayed out of the design department, but who knows what's coming for 21/22?! I didn't hold back when I told them that I don't care how good their women's ski is, if they make it pink and put flowers on it I'm not interested. Another woman agreed with me – we mostly ride unisex skis, and ultimately we just want a good ski.
The skis themselves were good (all mountain/piste), as long as you stick with the wisdom of selecting the top ski in the range as it has the best construction. I had started out on one of the lower end unisex models (probably brought along because we women might not handle a proper unisex ski  ) which was pretty uninspiring, but when we went back I immediately picked out the top end women's model (it was *that* obvious which one it was) which was much better, stiffer, but only 152cm so easy to chuck about. On the final round, I asked the guy for the unisex SL ski which he's been showing off in the talk but hadn't given anyone to test (too heavy?!) as it was a perfect size for me at 155cm and most skiers had gone home, leaving the run with plenty of space to give it a proper go. TBH I didn't like it that much (though the piste was pretty bumpy by that point), the previous ski suited me much better.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ah, how I wish my husband would carry my skis... 
I've never bought skis, but there seems to be so much choice - so unless the pink and flowery skis were absolutely perfect I would discount them immediately. As I tend to discount everything else pink and flowery. But then my ski gear is all black, and if I could hire black skis every time I would!
I've noticed that more recently I've had better (read:less pink) graphics on my hire skis because they've been less basic. Not sure if this translates across the board, but certainly fischer and nordica don't seem to be going down the pink route.
Not sure what point I'm trying to make here except - a concept sold on pink, flowery and easier for my boyfriend to carry would put me right off.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I bought my girlfriend's Dynastar Intense 12s for her birthday a while ago. While she wanted advanced piste skis she also wanted a women's model. But she's definitely not the pink flowers type, just a subtle colour change to the men's model. Light they're not but she'd never think of asking me to carry them. But she's french and has skied all her life, I see loads of men carrying their other half's skis here.
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I don't like pink and flowery, but on aesthetic grounds, not on feminist grounds. Unless I'm incapacitated for some reason, I would normally politely decline an offer to carry my skis, but I take no offence at being asked.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't really have much option but to buy a women's model, they don't usually make a unisex model in the shorter lengths. No pink and no flowers though.
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When friends stayed at our apartment, years ago, we sometimes skied four of us together. A few times he and I skied together whilst my old man took his wife on the easiest slopes with plenty of coffee stops. We had to carry skis from the edge of the piste a short uphill walk to the apartment - he always offered to carry my skis but I generally declined as I was accustomed to carrying them - and they're light enough. One day of miserable weather he was keen to go out but his wife wasn't, and neither was my husband - and I wouldn't have gone out for choice, but the visitor only had the week to ski, so I went with him. Visibility was poor. He insisted I go in front so he could follow my bright jacket, but did fall once or twice, necessitating my side stepping back up to help - he was visibly tiring. On the final run down his hat blew off and he stopped some way below it - and I had to retrieve it, taking my skis off and walking up the edge of the piste. When we finally stopped he was so fatigued I was quite concerned about him (I was old, but he was older). I offered to carry his skis up to the apartment and when he gratefully accepted my offer I knew just how rough he was feeling.
I have been surprised (and chastened) at the alacrity at which people on trains in London get up and offer me a seat, these days. And I always accept graciously!!
My skis have no flowers, but do have stripes, one of which matches my jacket! Some ski graphics are so laughably macho that I'd probably prefer flowers.
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| ElzP wrote: |
| ...a concept sold on pink, flowery and easier for my boyfriend to carry would put me right off. |
Yeah, me too, though I think what she was trying to say was that if our 'boyfriends' don't want to carry our skis, then we have to carry our own, and so they have to be light enough for us to manage. Many eyes were rolling; the women in the group were clearly not weaklings who couldn't carry their skis.
@Hells Bells, Yes me too, especially in the piste/all mountain category. I don't want to be embarrassed by it though.
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The missus has some "hello kitty" kit, she likes it. I guess there is a market.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Why does this pink and flowers myth persist? Do such designs really sell better than less feminine ones? If they do, who is buying them? A woman who contradicts the posters above and pretty much all women I know must be a rare being.
@Hurtle, a lot of us don't ski with our partners or do so rarely, so expecting them to carry our stuff is a non-starter just from a practical perspective.
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@Scarlet, no way would my wife be seen dead with a pair of pink flowery skis. In fact you are more likely to see me with those seeing as I couldn't care less what colour the skis are as long as they do the job!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My word...they were really going for it weren't they? Made our two learn how to carry their skis since they were v young. I always carry my own and guess what, shock horror I also do most of the driving as well . Neither me or my girls would buy pink flowery skis no matter how good they were!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Scarlet,
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Why does this pink and flowers myth persist? Do such designs really sell better than less feminine ones? If they do, who is buying them? A woman who contradicts the posters above and pretty much all women I know must be a rare being.
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My skis are turquoise (quite nice) flowery (not nice in my eyes). They do the job. I don't stress about it, except when trying (unsuccessfully, as it happens) to wind spyderjon up. Tbh I haven't seen that many pink, flowery skis. Maybe that rep was just a bit of a dick.
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a lot of us don't ski with our partners or do so rarely, so expecting them to carry our stuff is a non-starter just from a practical perspective.
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Some women expect it, some don't. Pretty obviously, those who don't ski with "their partners" (that's also a concept which could be worthy of discussion in a feminist context, but not by me) don't expect it. Each to her own. I presume that ski manufacturers' market research leads them to believe that there's a market for their 'feminine' products out there.
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It carries over into other kit as well - many more white ski jackets for women for instance. Maybe we just don't get ourselves dirty, perhaps because we're not carrying our skis? 
It's all a matter of taste obviously, but after spending hours trying to find a pure black ski coat to complete my ninja look I'd love it if there was more of that, and less pink and white. Won't improve my skiing but hey...
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You know it makes sense.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| Some women expect it, some don't. Pretty obviously, those who don't ski with "their partners" (that's also a concept which could be worthy of discussion in a feminist context, but not by me) don't expect it. Each to her own. I presume that ski manufacturers' market research leads them to believe that there's a market for their 'feminine' products out there. |
That's why I put 'boyfriend' in quotes before. Of course said partner may not be male at all, or may not even exist.
I have no idea who is being interviewed for the market research, as they don't seem to exist in the real world 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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One thing I do know, because so many bemused, non-girly mothers have told me, is that a liking for pink manifests early in many little girls. I blame Walt Disney etc.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@ElzP, My first ski trousers were white. After about 5 mins they were a mucky shade of grey Snow is not clean, neither are lifts, cars, skis or ketchup and mustard. Making yourself invisible in a white out isn't the best idea either. White is a poor choice for ski wear, whoever is wearing it, and I think you have to accept that it won't stay that colour.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Hurtle, my nieces all suffered from the pink thing, neither of their mothers did. Your assumption that is Walt Disney to blame may be correct.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Scarlet, I had a white and black Ripcurl jacket. I face planted and put a hole in it on the first week I wore it. Still love it, and can't bear to get rid of it, but there are still grey marks on the front.
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@Hurtle, @Hells Bells, I think Frozen has a lot to answer for (for the princess thing, rather than the pink), certainly among the young girls I know.
Another friend with three young daughters tweeted photos when she'e been shopping for baby clothes. A sea of pink with no other options. As an engineer, she finds it frustrating and feels like all the pinkness is undermining her work and her value, which is already difficult in a male-dominated industry. I think some stores are finally getting the message, but there's still a fair way to go.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Scarlet, my nieces' obsession pre-dated Frozen by quite some time.
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My daughter became so frustrated buying shoes for small girls that the only tough trainers and sturdy things were in aggressively "boyish" colours that the girls didn't like. She complained in lots of shops and wrote to Clarks. Probably other mothers did too, as last time she bought shoes she found the situation a lot better. It's not only girls. One of my sons, aged about 5, refused to wear white Y-fronts because they were "girlie". My anatomical explanations cut no ice. (I had bought white Y-fronts because we were living in the sweaty tropics at the time and they were the only cotton ones I could find - it's better now!). The Disney princess thing was going long before Frozen. My daughter, who can be a bit pedantic at times, is rabidly anti the whole princess thing. I suppose marrying someone after one dance or just because he'd previously been a frog is really not a good idea. At least some of the more recent Disney films feature female characters with a bit of backbone.
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I agree, @CaravanSkier. I have some nice pink clothes and some of my favourite men happily wear pink shirts. Though one man in a beautifully ironed pink shirt was very unhappy.... he was sitting on the train to London as it lurched, as I carried my coffee looking for a seat, and it sploshed down his back. He was very shirty.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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During the discussion, the rep mentioned Black Crows and how they come in pink and everyone loves them. It was swiftly pointed out that they also come in a lot of other colours, have very distinctive (non-floral) graphics and are marketed at men and women. We see men with the pink ones sometimes. They are not 'women's skis'.
I might pick something that is pink because I like it. I am not entirely averse to it, it's just a colour. But I do not want to hear that it is for women so we made it pink, or it is pink so it is for women.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
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I have no idea who is being interviewed for the market research, as they don't seem to exist in the real world |
I'd guess that you aren't their target market.
I'd also guess that if you go to all the trouble of making a women specific ski, you have a fairly solid idea of who your target market is and will have done some research on how popular your current colour schemes are with that market. Maybe shades of green and grey doesn't hit the sweet spot. You then might think it was a good idea to make it very obvious that your skis were women specific, i.e. pinker and more floral.
I tried a wider Elan at the Oktobertest and given how it skied, I can see how a lighter female version could have evolved without doing anything very radical. The only problem being how to generate interest in it.
Ellis Brigham's women's piste ski collection is unexciting. Last year's was even more dull. There would seem to be a gap in the market for something brighter.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yeah scrap the pink and flowers and introduce vomiting clowns toting uzis for us all (K2 has sooo lost its way with the throwback graphics...)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, ugh, I can't bear violent or sci fi graphics. I'll have pink above those. Oops, stereotypical or what?!
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I did love my K2 MissDemeanors.
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You know it makes sense.
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Well - being 42 I'm maybe above the "girly" stage - but I do like pink
That bein said, I would immediately discard a pair of pastel-cute skis that look like they were made for little girls (Hello Kitty style). If I want a pair of pink skis, it would be like a statement-pink. Bright and bold - maybe paired with some silver as well. I also ski in pink ski pants, because I like the colour and don't want to blend in with all the others on the slopes.
When it comes to flowers - no. Not if we're talking artistic flowers or life-like like a Monet or Van Gogh painting. Women skiers are not fragile mimosas.....
But I saw a pair in an ad which I would LOVE (had they been my size); White skis with flowers in Mary Quant/Marimekko-style.
All different bright colours and almost childish in apperance.
Very simple and colourful. Not too cute-ish, but still feminine.
Anyway, my all time dream skis are a pair of jet black K2's with gold ornaments and sparkles.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I'm 56, big built and love to be given "girly" skis in the hire shop - makes me feel less of a heffalump
Last week I was given the "ugliest" skis ever - they were also incredibly heavy and I found them really hard to turn. Went back, swapped them for some nice white and floral "girly" ones that turned on a sixpence.
Being that bit older, and a bit stiffer at the end of a day's skiing I also have absolutely no problem with my husband or my 6'3" teenager offering to carry my skis. Last weeks skiing? I booked it, shopped while we are there and did all the cooking - they carries the heavy luggage at the airport, my skis to/from piste and did the washing up! We're a team - we play to our strengths!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| skimummk wrote: |
We're a team - we play to our strengths! |
Exactly how we have always worked!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Personally I would prefer brighter skis, not ones that blend in with the snow. Pink and flowers would be fine if they were bright, not washed out and pastel. On the whole I don't really care what I look like though as long as my stuff works for me but if there were several of exactly the same product I would go for something colourful over something else. My current skis are a rather uninspiring grey and dirty white, not my taste at all but I've had them a long time and they ski a dream. Also why on earth is so much ladies ski wear white too, so impractical.
As a side note I love it when my husband carries my skis, I don't expect it but when I offers I usually accept.
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My husband/son have to do up my right boot - I can't twist to buckle it as I have a replacement hip that I don't want to dislocate!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sounds like a good reason to pick another brand. Plain old sexist marketing.
Each to their own, but everyone carries their own gear where I ride.
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I do love a bit of purple, but as a somewhat larger female I have men's skis. They are pretty dull to look at but given that they spend a lot of time covered in white stuff, who cares. I can't afford to employ someone to carry them for me.
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Sad if Elan are going that way for graphics. Always liked their pretty basic colour schemes; and their skis.
I'm definitely not in the pretty pastel colours, shiny bling and flowery school of skis, skiwear or anything else, either. I'll compromise on a lot to get a really good ski, but given that there's usually a choice of more than one, that's pretty much my one red line.
Also noticed that none of the SL racing girlies on Ski Sunday were using them, so I presume that they don't handle as well or summat..?  Or else they're just of the same opinion.
Weight wise, if I need the OH to carry them, then he'll carry them, whatever the weight. Then again, he's just kind, often insistent, and I suffer from very painful upper body parts at times. If I can possibly carry my own gear I will do: so actually, making them lighter is much more important to me for that reason (on snow performance aside). Making them properly balanced is, however, much more important (for carrying and skiing).
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@Grizzler, I'm not sure they will go that way. What they were saying completely contradicted what I was seeing in the rack, so I'm not certain it was based on reality, though they were the company's marketing people so they should know. Most of the women's range were dark blue with a flash of white/pink/purple depending on the model and the unisex were luminous green, and there was not a flower or butterfly in sight.
I'd just like to point out that I'll not judge you for not carrying your own skis, you do what works for you. I just don't think that should be given as the reason for making skis lighter. There are many reasons for making skis lighter that don't have to be patronising.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
I'd just point out that the idea of "pink for girls, blue for boys" is a relatively recent convention: 
