Againer Exoskeleton

A snowHead

Hi I'm looking for any UK based Againer owners to share their experience of the Againer equipment they own as a case study that we would like to post on our new Againer UK Website to be launched early next year, any Snowheads out there who could contribute??. We have some demo sets if anyone would like to have a go and write up their experience. Drop me a message if you are interested.

A snowHead

You mean those Ski Mojo rip-offs that have been developed by and are sold by a fellow snowHead?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Sorry - I'm a Ski Mojo girl myself. LOVE them!!!!

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PS If anyone has any questions to ask about Ski Mojos please contact me. 5 years ago I had the choice of new skis or Mojos. Pointless getting skis without Mojos as could not ski without them!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I have a good mate who I ski with every year ... he bought them in St Anton maybe 5 years ago and loves them.
They look very different to Mojos ... similar concept I guess.

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So a mechanism that reduces the load/fatigue on the legs when skiing. Sorry but that doesn't sound like an original concept to me and it doesn't look like one to me either. Perhaps you could elaborate?

After all it is free

Doesn't look that different to me bar a much higher price tag

If they last the higher price tag might be worth it.
I bought ski mojos last year, I skied 80 days and went through side leavers, which were replaced promptly. I also had to restitch the lower Velcro and replace the upper neoprene as the Velcro wore holes through it. So yes it’s a fantastic product and does exactly what it does on the tin...but be aware if you more than a couple of week a year skier you might want to buy spares.

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I can see the benefit of both, but my query would be whether the aparatus over time weakens the actual muscles to the point that you can't ski without it. I can see myself reaching for something like this in about 5 to 10 years just to keep up with my kids.

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@SPILLY67, I think you are demonstrating the excellent customer support Martin and his Mrs provide aren't you? And 80 days is pretty heavy usage - it's 6-12 years for the average holiday skier.

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Had a look at the websites. Againer is twice the price of a Ski-mojo. OTOH is seems much easier to put on (but wearing it on the outside of clothing might be a turn-off). Good to have choice. Have no experience with either, but if I were in the market I'd go for the ski mojo based on price and not being visible

My wife uses ski-mojo and it has been very important to her enjoying skiing (patella arthritis) but she does find the hip belt arrangement "faffy" and the plentiful velcro can cause a few rubs. The Againer looks to have some benefits on those fronts but the core functionality (which I can't comment on) is the key point.

You know it makes sense.

I Was able to test some Againers in St Anton 5 years ago having struggled to ski on the first day of a weeks holiday.
I found that although they were expensive, they enabled me to carry on skiing without further pain in my knee, so bought them at the end of the week.
I have had knee issues for several years and have continued skiing twice a year thanks to the Againers.
I did break a lever on the side, but could still use them. I contacted the manufacturer and it was replaced free of charge.
Personally I would not be skiing without them and would recommend people with knee issues to give them a try.
I can't comment on ski mojo as I have never tried them, but wouldn't be without the Againers.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Well a mechanism that reduces the load/fatigue on the legs when skiing is probably not an original concept even for a Ski Mojo. The idea of an exoskeleton is really rather old and this device's existence would suggest it is sufficiently different to avoid any SkiMojo patents, and SkiMojo where unable to get a patent on the general concept because as I said the idea of an exoskeleton's is really rather old. A quick check on Wikipedia suggest the oldest human exoskeleton dates back to 1890, and there is ongoing development of human exoskeleton's by many companies for many years.

Looking at the device I can see a few differences right off the bat. First it has a clip on/off method of attachment to the boot. That's an improvement right off the bat. Second it uses a gas piston rather than springs, and comes with a pump so you can adjust things infinitely to suit you rather than picking one of three spring strengths. That's a second improvement. It's method of being attached to the body is also completely different. Whether that is an improvement or not is another matter and would require trialling both to know but it is certainly not a copy. There has clearly been serious development to produce the Againer so to suggest it is a rip off is disingenuous.

A snowHead

Just to be completely up front I am the owner of Kinetic Innovations and manufacture and designed the ski~mojo. This is not a sales pitch (if it is considered as such no doubt Admin will remove it), but I feel have to put a few things straight as there is a lot of incorrect information on this thread. Straight off the bat - BOTH products have a clip on/off method of attaching to the boot! The "owner" and so called "inventor/designer" of the Againer (Valdis Valeika) is a Latvian who spent several hours talking to me at ISPO (The worlds’ largest International SPOrting Goods Trade Show - where we won the "BnandNew Award") in 2008 and 2009. He was attending as a design student and we were there showing a few prototypes of the "Next Generation" of ski~mojo to gain feedback before deciding which new design to opt for. A few years later Mr Valeika then produced the Againer, which was/is almost an exact copy of one of our prototype designs. We rejected that design for a number of reasons. My patent attorneys (YES ski~mojo IS patented and we had no problem being granted a patent) have written to Mr Valeika and several shops in Austria which are/were selling the Againer. The level of support from the ski~mojo IS FULLY adjustable within the range of support provided by three different strengths of spring, unlike the Air-Springs of the Againer the mechanical springs of the ski~mojo don't lose strength and need "topping-up", this also means that the ski~mojo can be carried on aircraft as hand luggage. The tool kit for a ski~mojo is one Allen key, the tool kit for an Againer includes a rather bulky Air Pump. The Againer weighs considerably more than the ski~mojo and is far bulkier. The key difference though is the way that the support is delivered (it's method of being attached to the body). The ski~mojo is fully adjustable and comfortable to the point that most users completely forget that they are wearing/using it. The Againer is NOT adjustable to the length of your upper OR lower leg, it has three options for the height at which it is attached to your ski boot (which means that the pivot point is not necessarily alongside your knee-joint) and there is NO adjustment at all for the length of your upper leg: This has two results:- 1. pressure is applied to your hamstring which can lead to discomfort (try going up on a T-Bar lift with the bar mid- hamstring rather than under your butt and you will experience the discomfort). 2. This in turn will usually lead to you skiing "in the back-seat". ski~mojo does not make you ski in the back seat, if it did it would not be endorsed by; BASI (British Association of Snowsport Instructors), ENSA (Ecole Nationale de Ski et d'Alpinisme - France) & PSIA (Professional Ski Instructors of America & American Association of Snowboard Instructors) to name just three. The ski~mojo is used by a former World Cup Champion and several other former World Cup skiers as well as hundreds, if not thousands of ski instructors. I am not aware that the Againer has any similar endorsements or any users with a high level of skiing pedigree. Finally YES there was serious development to "produce" both products but it was done by me and my team and not by anyone in Latvia...

A snowHead

On another note we just wanted to say a huge thank you to all our ski~mojo users past and present. We really value your support. As many of you know we have built the business on priding ourselves on customer care.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

"Hello, 999? I need an urgent ambulance for Dutchcourage who has just been severely burned!"

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I never said that the ski mojo was not patented, just that the patent is almost certainly not for the general concept of an exoskeleton to assist skiing, but rather the specific implementation that is ski mojo. As I pointed out the idea of exoskeletons is over a century old.

If it is a patent for the general concept of an exoskeleton to assist skiing, expect it to be easily overturned; patents are for implementations not general concepts and as such the Againer has a different support system (air pistons vs. springs) and a different way of attaching to the body so is a different implementation and almost certainly avoids any patents that will stand up when challenged in court.

As a side note from personal experience either the Ski Mojo website is very outdated or customer support is not what it is cracked up to be as I have now put in a couple of requests to trial the device at Braehead and am still waiting to hear back some quite some time later.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

If you contact us at info@skimojo we will certainly forward your request for a trial. I am sorry you have not had a response - this is very unusual as we are usually very efficient. As soon as we receive your email i shall forward it to John Wilson who organises the tests.

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Take it from me as an Msk physio, fellow skier and someone who has a degenerative lateral meniscus herself that the Ski Mojo is absolutely amazing. I learnt about it from acquaintance and initially thought it was a bit of a joke, but after skiing in February & March 2019 with an alternative brace (good one and not cheap) with pain every day, even with anti-inflammatory meds, I decided I needed to do something!

I 'test drove' a Mojo @ Chill Factore in Manchester for 2 hours. It sounds odd but felt like I was skiing from my armchair initially, so comfortable and took out all the ski chatter across the slope and moguls which really stirs up my knee pain. This armchair feeling disappeared quickly and I settled into the Mojo. Disengaging it a couple of times made me feel I gained 2 stone immediately - switched on again quickly Smile

Upshot - I bought one and haven't looked back during my skiing in December 19 in Obergurgl. No pain, no medication. Even had some spectacular falls and the Mojo seemed to protect my knees during them as I felt it wouldn't allow the joint to twist to breaking point... i.e that point where the ACL +/- meniscal injury occurs.
OK, a 'boggy knee' issue one night due to a long day, but an ice pack or 2 in the evening and I was up for another full day on the slopes.
I definitely say if you have knee issues then the Mojo is for you. Even my 24 Yr old daughter will be getting one for her holiday.

Try one out first at the various snow centres if you aren't convinced and let me know! See the Ski Mojo website for the sites that participate.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Againer Ski Exoskeleton info for the 20/21 season available at https://www.adapt-e.co.uk/ski-exoskeleton/ b]@Dutchcourage[/b],

With regards to the "faff" factor - it gets easier with practice - toileting does become much quicker.
With regards the rubbing - I only experienced this from the crotch straps on the inner thighs when I decided not to wear long-johns one day. Easy solution - wear long-johns under the MoJo again!

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There is no toilet faff factor with Againer or rubbing, check out the AGAINER video on how simple the attachment is

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@Dutchcourage, but it looks awful. I would rather not look like robo cop (mojo user). Why does it have to be worn on the outside?

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@Dutchcourage, I'd like to see your response to Mrs Mojo above. I am interested (if againer can be worn under ski pants) as the mojo is a complete faff, but I am concerned about "The Againer is NOT adjustable to the length of your upper OR lower leg, it has three options for the height at which it is attached to your ski boot (which means that the pivot point is not necessarily alongside your knee-joint) and there is NO adjustment at all for the length of your upper leg", How does that work for someone like me that has short legs relative to height (and I am known as "little legs").

Also, what is the air pump thing about? the website is short on detail

Beauty holidaylover is always in the eye of the beholder, and of course you can wear them under your ski pants if you so choose. Opinions carry more weight if you have tried both my friend. If you love Mojo no problem, If you Love AGAINER also no problem, mojo doesn't work for me but it works for others. You can of course wear Mojo on the outside that's your choice. Anything product extends skiing to those that need an extra boost, what's not to like?

You know it makes sense.

@Dutchcourage, i don't like that you haven't actually answered my questions, which is critical to whether I switch

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Worst viral marketeer evah!

A snowHead

do you have an idea of your inside leg measurement ?@holidayloverxx,

A snowHead

@Dutchcourage, 72cm

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I personally love the completely individualised fit of the mojo and it's easily hidden under salopettes.
The "faff factor" is really insignificant in the grand scheme of things when considering the benefit to your joints and ability to ski for longer each day. I forget I'm wearing it most of the time.

Pee breaks for men won't be any extra bother due to the 'tackle' involved, but even for me, a slightly aging 5"3' women, it only adds a minute in terms of undoing the top clips and dragging the hip belt southwards, then north on the return journey. It's not difficult..... unlike some of the red slopes I encountered last ski season in Val!

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We have got a lady user with a 69cm inside leg, the AGAINER works perfectly, when you get down to 65cm then we hit the short leg limit, hope this helps. Why are you considering switching?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

If you have no interest in the thread why post a none comment, surely its not about keeping your post numbers score up 28208/9 @Dave of the Marmottes,

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Aah the refuge of the caught out spammer who feels post count is relevant. Well it only is if it exposes that you've only ever joined a community to pimp your product. And who says I've no interest - I've met and skied with Mr Mojo, been very kindly lent a demo rig and know it works and is unobtrusive. Plus I know they are committed to continuous improvement and customer support.

Your monstrosity looks like a gash knockoff though I guess you might sell a few to LARPers to wear over their space armour at Comiccon.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Hi Holiday Lover.

There are three option to adjust the lower leg length where the boot back connects to the AGAINGER ,for your leg length it would be set in the shortest position, a simple button connect, push the AGAINER forward to set the desired knee brace position, relax back into the AGAINER to the desired thigh cup position , fasten the top strap around the thigh, secure the middle ratchet strap, switch on and ski away. I have also arthritic hands and at present find no problem with the boot attachment.

The difference in upper or shorter leg length is accommodated by the cup position of the AGAINER seated on the back of the thigh. If you have shorter legs the cup of the AGAINER will sit high just under the buttock, if you have longer legs the cups sit further down the thigh. Once in the position to suit individual preference and the straps adjusted to suit, the AGAINER will not move or slip down.

Unlike the Mojo which you are familiar with, the suspension system on an AGAINER is controlled by an air filled gas strut. The pump allows you to customise the amount of thrust the AGAINER can deliver, very much like modern air suspension in a car. Before you start your holiday you can set the suspension to how you feel on the day either by adding or releasing an appropriate amount of air support. The pump is hand held SKS SAM with a high pressure gauge so you can put an exact amount of air in to suit your individual need. In length is 27.5cm. Max with at gauge 4cm, narrowest point 2cm. Personally I find once you have hand an initial play around with the settings you will settle on one and leave it like that for the rest of the trip, the pump is not something I find I carry around with me on the slope, more of a set and forget. The choice is yours.

Obviously with COVID 19 the opportunity to try the kit will be restricted until the slopes here in the UK re-open. If you live in the South SKEE-TEX in Battlesbridge have a demo set,you could at least try at set on so a-lay any misgivings you might have. If you live in the North we also have demo sets here you are welcome to try on.

for more pictorial and video info www.adapt-e.co.uk/ski-exoskeleton/ which is pretty comprehensive.

to our mind its never about one system being better than another its about what's best for you, anything to keep us skiing longer

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@Dutchcourage, Thanks for the comprehensive answer. I am not far from Battlesbridge so will look into a demo when possible

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