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Ski touring for wallies

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@AndAnotherThing.., nice one

DB wrote:
@BobinCH,
Is there a way you can get the Xenic binding release tested? Maybe with the installation of the shims something changed.


This has crossed my mind?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
davidof wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
Round 2 in better weather and putting the hammer down. Almost 500m/h...



Did you stop for coffee en route?


It‘s hard to go faster than that when your skis keep falling off. wink
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Weathercam, Cheers Smile
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Mother hucker wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
offpisteskiing wrote:
@BobinCH, if your bindings are pre-releasing then maybe you need to reconsider your din settings??


Not sure moving it from 9 to 10 is going to make much difference. Unless there is a light tech binding with much more reliable performance I’m moving to Shift or (looks even more secure to me) Duke pt for the challenging stuff and just have to get fitter for the up...

There are plenty of light tech bindings that are more reliable tgan your experience so far. They sound a nightmare and must be wrecking your mind in sticky situations.
I was skiing with a ESF instructor/mountain guide whos sponsored by Volkl/Marker. Fair to say he was skiing harder than most on his marker alpinists popping of stumps and launching off rollers.


It’s not really skiing hard. I was moving slowly, but in quite deep snow and so had little momentum to turn, which means forcing the turn. I think the lateral pressure is too much for the heel piece so it releases. I will no longer use this setup in exposed terrain.
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davidof wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
Round 2 in better weather and putting the hammer down. Almost 500m/h...



Did you stop for coffee en route?


Haha you’re a bit behind! Too busy on the other thread with the Vive La France chants?
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AndAnotherThing.. wrote:


^^ The new puppy (14 months) got his introduction to touring last week.



^^ Typical Collie, he's obsessed with sticks an will make his own entertainment.



^^ No problem with the climbs or descents, although i had to up his feed.



^^ Although some 'education' was required regarding skin track etiquette Laughing


Awesome! Pooping in the skin track can’t have gone down well with the Lycra brigade? Shocked
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
BobinCH wrote:
Awesome! Pooping in the skin track can’t have gone down well with the Lycra brigade? Shocked


lol - my dog was ok but a few of the locals didn't seem to bother buying it or moving it.

It was more lying in the track with a stick, and wait for you to throw it.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Seems ski touring is now advised against to alleviate any potential pressure on rescue/medical services. So that’s probably the end of Wally adventures for this season. It was good while it lasted! Thanks for contributing
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Thank you for starting it, and happy to contribute Toofy Grin
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@BobinCH,
Thanks, will you be doing this every year with a different touring binding each time. wink
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@BobinCH, did that come off from a standing turn? I'd not be happy with that and can see why you'd want to swop? Can you get money back as "Not fit for purpose"??
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
DB wrote:
@BobinCH,
Thanks, will you be doing this every year with a different touring binding each time. wink


I hope not but I’m not counting chickens...
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
kitenski wrote:
@BobinCH, did that come off from a standing turn? I'd not be happy with that and can see why you'd want to swop? Can you get money back as "Not fit for purpose"??


Yep almost stationary - you can see in the video

http://youtube.com/v/gKN91Dw2H0A

Given they are lightweight skis and drilled for these bindings not sure what the best option is. Probably worth seeing if they can take them back and test them.

@spyderjon any thoughts?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@BobinCH, what do Fritchsi advise about shims, I'd have thought that those could be the culprit as you're changing the way that toe-piece was designed to work?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
BobinCH wrote:
kitenski wrote:
@BobinCH, did that come off from a standing turn? I'd not be happy with that and can see why you'd want to swop? Can you get money back as "Not fit for purpose"??


Yep almost stationary - you can see in the video

http://youtube.com/v/gKN91Dw2H0A

Given they are lightweight skis and drilled for these bindings not sure what the best option is. Probably worth seeing if they can take them back and test them.

@spyderjon any thoughts?

There's a lot of good options out there. The majority of the most serious lines in the world are skied on super light race bindings. What about something simple and reliable? Plum guides, Salomon MTN etc. I wouldn't touch Fritschi bindings with a barge pole for exposed skiing... too much plastic, and too many recalls and re-releases in the last 5 years.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Weathercam wrote:
@BobinCH, what do Fritchsi advise about shims, I'd have thought that those could be the culprit as you're changing the way that toe-piece was designed to work?


Don’t see how raising the toe piece 6mm is going to make any difference to a heel piece rotating too easily? And first pre-release was pre shims. Let’s see what they say...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
JackSkier wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
kitenski wrote:
@BobinCH, did that come off from a standing turn? I'd not be happy with that and can see why you'd want to swop? Can you get money back as "Not fit for purpose"??


Yep almost stationary - you can see in the video

http://youtube.com/v/gKN91Dw2H0A

Given they are lightweight skis and drilled for these bindings not sure what the best option is. Probably worth seeing if they can take them back and test them.

@spyderjon any thoughts?

There's a lot of good options out there. The majority of the most serious lines in the world are skied on super light race bindings. What about something simple and reliable? Plum guides, Salomon MTN etc. I wouldn't touch Fritschi bindings with a barge pole for exposed skiing... too much plastic, and too many recalls and re-releases in the last 5 years.


Alas it seems not up to usual Swiss quality standards! Will wait and see what @spyderjon thinks will work with the drilled holes.
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@BobinCH, maybe they're only good for old farts who no longer charge downhill Laughing

Though are good on the up, yesterday was "touring" with some geezonaires, all very social, couple of first-timers etc and then the texts started coming through about the lockdown so thought could well be my last tour and made my apologies and fecked off.

First hour away from them 603m and did 875m in 1hr 36.

Did have a bit of a cough afterwards having left my lungs on the climb Laughing

Doooohhh having just typed that realised I was not on my Xenics but my 88's and DynaFiddles, oh well happens at my age rolling eyes
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Weathercam wrote:
@BobinCH, what do Fritchsi advise about shims, I'd have thought that those could be the culprit as you're changing the way that toe-piece was designed to work?

Shims make no absolutely no difference to the way the bindings work! And that's any binding, not just the Xenics.
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Unless maybe the boot sole is camming on something under the toe piece now it's at a different angle?
Something to check........
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There seem to be a lot of choices / technical issues with ski touring. Not a single post about splitboards.....you just click them together, strap in your old boots, and whoop whoop
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
BobinCh, you can get the bindings torque tested with your boots if you can find a shop with a machine. Here’s my thoughts/questions re your bindings, in no particular order:

- Check that your boot toe soles or sides of the toe lugs aren’t touching/rubbing on any part of the toe binding. To do this engage the toe pins are fully rotate the boot around the pins and check for clearance/daylight everywhere. The boot should be suspended by the pins only. There’s quite a bit of variance allowed in the touring sole dims so it’s common for a boot to need to be ‘fitted’ to the binding.
- 9 din isn’t a particularly high din when jump turning in heavy snow. What’s your height, weight & bsl?
- Double check all three din settings.
- Can you recall how the binding released, ie from the toe, laterally from the heel or vertically from the heel?
- When clicking in at the top of a pitch are you doing the check that all tech binding owners should do to ensure that the toe pins are fully engaged by swinging the ski back’n’forth on the toe pins (before clicking in the heel) so that the grooves in the pins clean out the toe inserts in the boots? Or, if you’re on sketchy terrain and it’s not a good idea to be swinging a ski around etc then at least fully locking up the toe lever as if it doesn’t engage fully then the binding pins aren’t fully engage in the boot.
- And on a face like that of the Bec I’m quite surprised that you’re not locking out the toes due to the amount of exposure.

When I get a minute I’ll have a look what make/models of bindings will work around your existing Xenic holes but on a lightweight construction ski (I can’t remember which skis you have) then you should try to avoid additional holes and you really should avoid having old holes out in front of the toe binding.

What I do know will work is the Fritschi Tecton as its toe locations will go around that of the Xenic with just enough clearance and without the boot centre line moving fore/aft and the Tecton heel utilises the same heel base as the Xenic. Or you can utilise one pair of existing toe holes for the Tecton (can't remember if it's the front or rear ones) but that'll mean moving the boot centre quite a bit (not good) and I'm not sure if the heel base has sufficient length adjustment so that might need remounting. The same goes for the Evo/Vipec but they still have issues and I’d avoid them like the coronavirus, whereas the Tecton is as sturdy/reliable as its competitors in the 600-680g class with brakes – which is of course as significantly heavier than your Xenics.

Or just use the Xenics and train the collie to retrieve your skis instead of sticks Laughing


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 17-03-20 16:14; edited 1 time in total
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spyderjon wrote:
BobinCh, .....
- When clicking in at the top of a pitch are you doing the check that all tech binding owners should do to ensure that the toe pins are fully engaged by swinging the ski back’n’forth on the toe pins (before clicking in the heel) so that the grooves in the pins clean out the toe inserts in the boots?


I've just remembered the Fritschi toe pins don't have the horizontal cleaning groove like most other tech bindings. It was a Dynafit patented feature but I thought the patent had expired but maybe it hasn't. It's a great feature that really does work and other tech binding brands have it so maybe Fritschi wouldn't/couldn't do a deal with Dynafit.
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Still a good idea to do the swinging/engage-disengage toe lever anyway, I know exactly the pre-release from not doing this........
It's @andanotherthings collie btw!
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KenX wrote:
Still a good idea to do the swinging/engage-disengage toe lever anyway.......

Most definitely.

KenX wrote:
......It's @andanotherthings collie btw!

In that case Bob, get a Retreiver Toofy Grin
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Laughing
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The collie is up to the job. I reckon it could find a lost ski with a bit more training Smile
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
spyderjon wrote:

- 9 din isn’t a particularly high din when jump turning in heavy snow. What’s your height, weight & bsl?
- Double check all three din settings.
- Can you recall how the binding released, ie from the toe, laterally from the heel or vertically from the heel?


- 180cm, 85kg, 313. DIN range is 3-10 so 9 is pretty much Nax.
- 3 DIN settings? I only see DIN adjustment on the heel piece.
- laterally from the heel. That is the problem IMO.

Ps would have locked the toes if the mechanism wasn’t broken Skullie
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
https://www.policevalais.ch/communiques-pour-les-medias/coronavirus-evitez-de-surcharger-les-urgences-des-hopitaux-we-need-you/
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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BobinCH wrote:
....3 DIN settings? I only see DIN adjustment on the heel piece....

@BobinCH, sorry, that's a typo, there's only the two din adjustments on the Xenic (bet that had you worried Laughing). There's independent lateral and vertical adjustment on the heel so just check that they're both set. Also double check your heel gap which should be a whisker of daylight on a flat cambered ski.

For a Type III+ skier of your stats the chart setting is 10 din. Skiing the Bec is definitely a Type III+ pursuit as a fall is highly likely to be reet nasty. If you're over 50 then in theory the age correction kicks which drops it to 8.5 but I'd ignore that for that type of terrain. For non consequential terrain then 9 is sensible for your stats/skills but it's still technically off the chart so you can't sue me.

How come the toe levers are working as I thought that you'd got warranty replacements?

The forced resorts closures has meant I've closed my shop today for the spring/summer five weeks earlier than usual as well as lay my shop biatch off (I'm only doing mail order & appointment work through the off season) so I'm still working through the consequences of that and the likely impact on next season but when I get a minute I'll have a look at which other binders will work for you.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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[quote="spyderjon"]
BobinCH wrote:


How come the toe levers are working as I thought that you'd got warranty replacements?


They replaced both levers which now work better on one ski

But unfortunately not the base piece which was also broken on one ski and is required for the locking mechanism
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@BobinCH, still think that chunk of plastic / shim could be the culprit, and the toe lever issues even though @spyderjon, vehemently says to the contrary as it's the rear release?

That toe piece is so sensitive to snow under the boot and locking let alone a chunk of plastic.

Think Fritschi have to be shown that picture and see what they say as could impact many than feel the need for shims?
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@Weathercam, as the shim simply has the effect of raising the top sheet of the ski at the front, why should it make any difference? Perhaps it's the fact that "That toe piece is so sensitive to snow under the boot and locking..." that is the culprit.

I have shims under 5 different sets of pin bindings and have never encountered anything like @BobinCH, from a properly adjusted heel piece.
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Weathercam wrote:
@BobinCH, still think that chunk of plastic / shim could be the culprit, and the toe lever issues even though @spyderjon, vehemently says to the contrary as it's the rear release?

You may think that but you're wrong.

Bobs toe levers broke prior to him having/using the shims - and all of the other Xenic lever failures I've seen/heard of did not have shims.

I have fully torqued tested most makes/models of bindings, included Xenics, with both toe &/or heel inserts and there's no difference whatsoever to their functioning without shims. In fact a number of binding manufacturers make shims for this specific purpose.

The shim is just mimicking the top sheet of the ski but when the shim is fitted that top sheet is now sitting a bit higher and the boot rotates around the toe pins/inserts to aligned with the heel.

In theory there is no limit to the boot sole length that the binding can be mounted for but in practice there is a limit as if a brake is fitted it needs room to function and there should be room to fitted a crampon between the toe & heel bindings. Plus there's a limit on the sizes of boots available with tech binding which means that the minimum sole length the binding can be mounted for is 250/255mm and the longest tech boot sole on the market is 360/365mm. To achieve TUV certification all bindings must have identical functioning when mounted for all possible sole lengths. With the Xenics 9mm delta (+/-1mm depending upon the boot used) the angular difference of the boot in the binding between the min & max sole lengths is actually greater than the angular difference of the boot in a fixed sole length (313mm in this case) but with & without a 4mm shim.
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@spyderjon, I obviously bow to your knowledge, but I'm just curious to what Fritchi might say, as out in the field bindings/boots can and do act totally different to a workshop as there are so many other environmental factors that can affect their functionality.
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@Weathercam, I've just explained to you above how/why the set-up is within the factory specs with the shim installed rolling eyes
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My best friends at Fritschi have now sent a full replacement toe piece for the broken Xenic. Hopefully this one works better!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@BobinCH, finger crossed for you !! I off loaded mine now . And then had a super excuse for new kit , great deal had on full set up ready for this summer s expected expedition’s , being an eternal optimist helps Happy
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@Dabber, what’s the new setup? I’m keen to test the Faction Agent 3.0 1700g with a low delta mid weight touring binding, or maybe switch the shifts onto those and put an Alpine binding on the Blizzard Rustler 11’s for Freeride days.
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@BobinCH, gone for black crows camox / Salomon MTN combo , for a forgiving all mountain all condition set up that will travel long distances too ,ended up with skis, bindings,skins,crampons and poles for an unbelievable price, faction agent look nice , my bent chetlers at around 1700g with shift works really well for anything in the slack country and non mountaineering scenarios around whistler and is a great compromise , the weight is more than manageable for shorter days , sticking alpine binders on the rustler sound like a good plan for the type of skiing around your neck of the woods , then you still have the Dps for the better days
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