Reusing a hands free lift pass at other resorts

A snowHead

Most resorts now seek to charge a few euros extra for the hands free card your lift pass days are loaded onto.

I've read that these are often (but not always) transferable between resorts, so it's worth keeping the cards to see if they can be used on future trips, avoiding the need to pay for another card. Is that correct?

Secondly, if a ski pass already has days loaded onto it for sometime in the future, will using it at a different resort in the intervening period risk wiping the future validity?

A snowHead

Yes, that is correct. There are typically two kinds of lift passes in use in France: Ski Data and Axxes, they are not interchangeable but for example a life pass for Correncon in the Vercors will also work at l'Alpe d'Huez and at Valloire in the Maurienne.

I don't think they "load" anything onto the pass. It just has an rfid chip in it and the passes are stored in a database on a computer. The turnstyle reads the code in the rfid chip and sees if this corresponds to a lift pass in the system.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Yes, you can reuse lift passes in different resorts. It depends on the company that provides the lift barrier system. The same card will work across all the Skistar resorts in Sweden and Norway, for example.

I can't answer the second question though.

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@pam w, Megeve won't give you back the two euros.

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Tight boogers down there!

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We turned up at Megeve a few years ago, with our carefully saved lift passes from only a couple of years previously acquired, to find they had changed their system and we were required to buy new passes.

After all it is free

Have not come across anywhere that let’s you use elsewhere’s pass.

Some do refund tho’. Presumably to re-use.

I thought they were all by SkiData?

You can, but with some limitations. Even if card is Skidata it doesn't mean it will work everywhere where they have Skidata. They use different frequencies and card needs to match that. Yeah it's impossible to tell if it will work or not, but should be visible from serial number of card. I have been told long time ago, that first set of numbers is the one defines frequency. Now if that's true or not, I have no idea, but I have seen few Skidata cards that worked normally in one resort and didn't work in other, and on the other hand, I have bunch of cards that I normally use in most resorts where I go skiing. Until now noone had issues loading them, but of course you can't give them back on end of day getting refund Smile

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Ski amade gives you the €3 back. I usually have a stash every couple of years to buy the first round.

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Just to muddy the waters:

Our Cham passes have (slightly) different "Internet" numbers, which will be unique IDs.

But, the cards have numbers starting 467/76/xxxxx which are also presumably unique IDs - and 467 MHz sounds plausible as a frequency, except that it isn't https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/connectivity/rfid-radio-frequency-identification/frequency-bands-spectrum.php

They will (as included on the pass) work in Courayeur and Evasion MB - but presumably the networks aren't integrated as you have to go past the cash desks on first use. Although Verbier is included on a limited basis, we had to use Verbier passes last time.

We also have PdS, GM and MonteRosa cards, all of which I think have had to be replaced in recent years due system changes (done for free).

Switzerland is of course much more joined up as I think most (?) stations can now be loaded onto the "SwissCard" which also works for e.g. museums, etc.

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Some years ago I discovered that you could 'preload' the pass for Cervinia - but needed the bit of plastic and it's id that would trigger the first time it was used. Found that the pass used at Nevis Range used the same system so got one from there. Straight on to the first lift with no queuing for a pass the first day.

Thanks all. Can anyone answer my second question (which is basically: can you load multiple ski areas onto the same pass without wiping the ones which are already on there)?

You know it makes sense.

@denfinella, I think you can because, as someone pointed out above, the card is purely an identifier and nothing is actually loaded on to it. You would not be able to buy lift time on the internet and then go straight to the lifts otherwise. For a definitive answer on this you need to ask alpinebear on here. He works for SATA, the Alpe d'Huez lift company, and spent all last winter selling and sorting out these things.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@denfinella, Yes, as that's what happens with the Mont Blanc Unlimited so it handles CdMB, EMB and Courmayeur, which appear to be on different "servers".

A snowHead

I haven't tried using "strange" cards online must be said.

A snowHead

Thanks, will report back!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I did this many times. Even at the ticket box in Verbier, where I asked them to validate an Oz/Vaujany card for use as a day card. To which they at first said that it would be impossible, but when I asked them to try it anyways, it just worked (to their utter surprise).
As mentioned here above, there are basically two Ski pass systems; Skidata (01-1614 7133 5349 xxxx xxxx-X) and TeamAxess (WTP: xxxxxxxx-xxx-xxx and sometimes another internet identification nr xxx/xxx/xxxxx)
As I can confirm, each Skidata pass works everywhere where they use Skidata. Nothing is written onto the card, it is a very simple system consisting of a unique pass nr and a RFID antenna. When purchasing one or more days of skiing at a certain resort, this nr is added to the local database and when you scan your card, the card number is checked with this database after which the tourniquette opens (or not). Each resort has its own closed database system, so you should be able to use your pass in multiple resorts at the same time, although I never tested this.
The TeamAxess system should work the same way, the only challenge here is that some resorts use the so-called Internet No. and others just use the WTP No. Some passes have both printed on them, others only have the WTP No. printed on them.
As also mentioned here above: make sure not to carry old passes together with the valid one, as the reader will probably see the unknown nr and block the tourniquette, even when also reading the valid one at the same time.
Some resorts have reduced rates for internet passes, as this reduces the amount of man hours for them. Sometimes you get increased reduction when buying your passes at least 10 days before your stay in the resort.
When you loose your ski-pass, you can easily go to a ticket box and have another card matched to your name, which they should just do for you. The lost card will become invalid at the same instance. Same applies if your card becomes damaged for any reason. To reduce this risk, keep your smartphone away from your ski-pass as it might be able to destroy the antenna with its own RFID payment signal.

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A very interesting post!

I've dug out old plastic lift passes and our Tignes ones from 2 years ago have the 01-1614 xxxx number. Looking at the Val Thorens website (going at Easter) it says that passes starting with that number can be re-loaded.

Unfortunately it doesn't make clear that this is any pass from elsewhere too. So I'm assuming/hoping this will work and I don't need to fork out an extra 12 Euros for 4 more bits of plastic to add to the collection?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

One issue you might have using the same pass across different resorts** is if the RFID card fails.

When this has happened to me, I have gone to the lift pass office to swap to a new card and they have retained the old card with paperwork.

If you had a second resort using the original card, you would also need to get that resort updated to a new card too. Presumably by reporting as a lost card, as you wouldn't be able to surrender a failed card in the second instance.

** when having multiple passes loaded at the same time (edited/added for clarity)

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@kettonskimum, yes, if the website says passes starting with 01-1614 can be used, you'll be able to use cards from other resorts.

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Useful thread. Worth making a sticky?

After all it is free

I did exactly this last year In Morzine. The website advised as long as the WTP code was in a specific format , you could re-use your existing pass. I think I used an old pass from Japan.

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i used both of the option with 01-1614 xxxx number and WTP code in Half Term.
Works without problem (ski pass from Flaine and La Plagne, used in Chamrousse and Chatel)

What i am not sure is this :
can i in the same card book more than one ski passes with different dates?

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When the Espace Diamant started using re-usable cards you paid 2 euros for them, and could get cash back from a range of resort shops or lift pass offices. Now you can't, which seems a highly retrograde step. Not everybody will be sufficiently organised to have the card handy for future purchases and many will just end up in the garbage.

I've used Serre Chevalier cards at Val Thorens/3V> Easiest way to find out is to try and book a pass online, and put the number in from your existing card. Pretty sure we used our season pass cards, and went back to SC for a few days after that.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

I just last week discovered why some of my old pass cards were no longer working for our guests - up until this season I'd 'lend' the cards to our guests who were then able to use them for internet purchases, saving them both the cost of the card and the additional cost of buying at the ticket desk. (Yes, they could just order them without pre-existing cards and pick them up on the day, but some have not realised this).

Anyway, here's the problem. To order on the internet you need to create an account. Once you've used a card it is now permanently registered on that account. Multiple cards (up to six, I've been told) can exist per account and are not tied to specific individuals but can not be transferred to a different user account.

This is on the Swiss side of PdS, but some of the cards were originally issued in France and of course the systems are linked, so I think it likely that anyone using any card will now no longer be able to pass them on to others as they have in the past. rolling eyes

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@wimz, The lift-pass systems are certainly linked; the online purchase ones are at least semi-linked, in that when I wanted to register to buy a day-pass in Chatel recently I could not do so using the email address I'd used on the Swiss system. It didn't give a coherent error message but I worked out that this was the cause and simple used a different email. So yes, some sort of cross-referencing at the very least. The other ones run by Avoriaz and LG (or wherever) also appear to be the same basic booking system, so I suspect that the links, such as they are, would be the same across the different areas of France, i.e. you probably can't reguster using the same email on more that one of them. No reason you'd want to though, given their prices are all the same, whereas Swiss prices are at the moment very much more expensive due to exchange rate shifts in the last couple of years.

The main ticket office here in Morgins could do nothing for me expect inform me why the passes were no longer working, but advised me to try the head office of the RDDM in Champéry, which I haven't yet done. They don't have any returned cards, as they're non-refundable.

What I will try to do for the future, especially if I can get the existing cards removed from the accounts of the various people that used them this season, is to register them all on one account, or maybe will need multiple accounts for more than six, which will mean I'll have to buy the passes through my account for the guests, or allow them to use my account(s) to do so themselves. Issues with credit card details may make this unfeasible though, haven't checked yet.

Another solution, I suppose, would be to create a throwaway account for each guest, buy and use the passes, then delete the account to free off the cards.

Annoying, however it works out, and odd that it's only happened this season, cards have been used by multiple guests up to and certainly including last year.

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@Chaletbeauroc, it could be the case that the same online purchasing back-office is used by multiple resorts. Maybe you could ask your guests to delete the pass numbers from their account when they return the cards after use, for you to be able to reuse them. I am sure they are willing to do so when they are made aware of this.
And if you include a line in your voyage preparation e-mail to bring old passes of any resort if they have them sitting in a drawer, this could also help reducing the amount of blocked passes at the end of a season. People just don't know that this is possible in the first place and many only start thinking about lift passes after they arrive in the resort.
The lift corporation should actually try to help you more actively with this issue, as it is advantageous for them when the work load at the ticket offices is further reduced. Don't they even have a box somewhere for people to leave their cards after use? I remember I have seen such boxes near ticket offices in the past.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@wimz, Now that I know it will use any Axxess card I will search through the dozens of cards I accumulated over the years. So I should be able to free up quite a few.

As for deleting the card from a user account, that doesn't seem in itself possible. One can change the card number, or one can delete secondary contacts which will presumably (hopefully) also remove the card registration and make it re-usable. I'll need to experiment with this. Probably try it with the Chatel one I bought earlier in the season, see if deleting that account allows me to add the card elsewhere.

I've never seen a 'leave your old card here' box in any of the lift pass offices - given that there are points accumulated for each purchase I imagine that their efforts are more focussed on enticing previous users back again, so would want to encourage them to hold on to the cards for future visits.

In the long term I need to work out whether the effort I'd need to put in to use and reuse cards, saving just 4 francs per guest, is really worthwhile or not. It would mean getting names and photos from them, ensuring they're deleted/removed as appropriate after use, as well as the existing risk of them forgetting and taking them away, which has sometimes happened. Previously the effort was minimal, but now I'm not so sure.

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Recently acquired some lift passes through our accommodation agency in Les Menuires at discounted prices. But they will not reload our existing cards - say we have to have fresh ones.

When we booked through tourist information last year they reloaded existing cards.

Very frustrating.

After all it is free

@Layne, That's quite common if an agency or a hotel is getting the cards and you're paying them, rather than the lift company direct. The additional admin and hassle of taking various cards from various different guests, dealing with the ones that inevitably don't work and ensuring the correct ones are given back to the correct people would be a nightmare, so I don't blame them.

Plus, of course, their deal with the lift company will be based on a specific model, with discounted prices and potentially commission (often in the form of a free pass per ten bought, or whatever) and the reuse of existing cards could easily throw the whole thing out of kilter.

When I used to lead on Ski Club holidays I'd often buy the passes for the whole group (requiring local cash payments from them all, sometime 40+ people, which was frankly a bit of a PITA) and we would calculate their payments including how many free passes would be included, i.e. we'd pass the discount on to the members. It's possible that's what the agency was doing as well.

@Chaletbeauroc, yeah, no I kinda get it. Should have said mildly frustrating rather than very Very Happy

I've got a pile of about 30 cards at home (household of 4).

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Hopefully one day, it will all will be on our phones. We used to have Swatch watches with our passes on.

Help!!

Reusing a hands free lift pass at other resorts

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