 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm not keen on anything above 75mm. I like something in the de-tuned GS category and can happily ski most conditions on them. Head Supershape i.Speed, Rossignol Hero Long Turns, Atomic x9's etc. I used some wide powder skis in Chamonix a few years ago and liked them in the deep stuff - but that was because my Kniessl White Stars (ca. 1999) didn't work at all! I had Rossi Long Turns in Austria for Snowmageddon last season and they worked fine off piste. Each to their own.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I once skied 112mm underfoot all week, mainly off piste, no problem with the knees.
I finished with half a day on piste and 77mm underfoot and all that carving hurt my knees.
Depends what snow you're skiing on.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Been saying this for years ...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just read the article. While I agree with the conclusion, the argument is rubbish.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 11-09-19 8:22; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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And while it’s logical that skiing a wide ski on a hard piste requires more effort and strain on the knees to carve, skiing a narrow ski in heavy or wind blown snow is more likely to leave you with a knee injury. Right ski for the. conditions and good technique is the obvious answer
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Right ski for the. conditions |
Absolutely correct.
| BobinCH wrote: |
| ...and good technique is the obvious answer |
That too.
Choose a ski which best matches the conditions you actually ski, rather than the conditions you would like to ski.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Knee pain using wide skis (when narrow skis are pain free) is often a sign of an alignment issue. The alignment issue is magnified as the ski width increases. I have a number of customers whose knee pain was sorted after they were assessed for and had lateral canting work done.
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@spyderjon, that makes sense.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@spyderjon, that is interesting indeed. I've been nervous of wide skis ever since I tested some Whitedots at MK, and couldn't get out of the car when I got home, because my knees had stiffened up so badly.
Not an issue for me now, though, as I don't go off-piste any more. But I must be one of many intermediate skiers who don't want to lug a quiver of skis around, so the all-mountain skis you recommended are - of course! - perfect, manoeuvrable on a hard piste and great in slush.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| Knee pain using wide skis (when narrow skis are pain free) is often a sign of an alignment issue. The alignment issue is magnified as the ski width increases. I have a number of customers whose knee pain was sorted after they were assessed for and had lateral canting work done. |
Was the canting generally inside or outside of the boot?
https://www.solutions4feet.com/skier-balance---alignment
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Just read the article. While I agree with the conclusion, the argument is rubbish. |
because...?
I guess the advice is not really for the wise and experienced skiers above but for people like me with dodgy knees (I sometimes have to wear a knee brace when cycling). I could very easily read a review for a so called all-mountain ski like the following in the Telegraph...
| Quote: |
Dominating the advanced category for long turns, high speed, liveliness and groomed piste, the Rustler 10s love to charge as hard as a herd of stampeding cattle. Their dynamic flex is ideal for laying down high-speed trenches on piste, and they also blast happily through powder or crud, and are well suited to stronger skiers.
+ Long turns, high speed, low speed, smoothness, liveliness/responsiveness, groomed piste
- None
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...and think, "Well that sounds pretty nigh on ideal for zooming around the piste for my couple of weeks a year, while having the opportunity to learn how to be one of the cool kids when deep powder offers itself."
The article is telling me that at 102 wide, I should probably ignore this ski's on-piste attributes because skiing to its max potential increases the risk of damage to my knees, if only slightly.
He seems to be implying there's no difference between 66mm and 99mm (assuming a tibia head width of 100mm) and then I'd guess that the lateral forces increase exponentially as width increases?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| Knee pain using wide skis (when narrow skis are pain free) is often a sign of an alignment issue. The alignment issue is magnified as the ski width increases. I have a number of customers whose knee pain was sorted after they were assessed for and had lateral canting work done. |
Physics dictate wider skis require wider range of motion in the lower body.
Improper alignment effectively reduce the knee's range of motion. So something has to give. Knee pain is the common complain. Fix the alignment, the knees will be happier in general.
But the few week a year skiers, muscle strength and flexibility are probably not at their optimal either. The extra stress of wider skis will do "something" to the body. Typically knees are the first to take the blunt of it.
I've been going from narrow to wide and now back down to something in the 80-85mm range, even for off-piste. I'm only 5'4 and 110lb. Unlike the 6' tall former ruby player with wide shoulder, I don't need a big platform to float or balance on.
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Poster: A snowHead
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My 'go to' skis are a pair of 67mm SLs and a pair of 120mm Bents. Although I can feel an increase in the force transmitted using the wider skis on piste my knees feel the same for both pairs. Now running... that is a different story.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I don't know if its just me .. but I find Jackson Hogan's prose is just so difficult to read.
I just get bored by the end of the sentence, I can't imagine having a pint with him.
I'm a piste person so anything wider than 80mm is a bit of a waste of time.
I remember many years ago 1994 renting Volkl Explosive, they were interesting as that particular week we had pile of powda in Verbier,
I dont know how wide they were, but we called them Fat Boys .... they were probably 110mm wide but not parabolic, so pretty hard work.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@DrLawn, explosivs were 95mm under foot believe it or not
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Biomechanics of skiing on a wide ski will increase load on the medial ( inside) compartment of the knee for the outside ski and vice versa. However, this is really only likely to be relevant if skiing on the edge of the ski. If the ski is being skied in deep enough snow to mainly ( evenly ) load the base the biomechanical axis will move back towards the more central part of the knee.
I certainly don’t think I see more injured knees from wide skis but can see how a mildly worn knee might be aggravated by using a wide ski in hard pack
Jonathan Bell
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hard snow is "hard" on the knees. Worn out knees will get more worn faster.
Add wider ski to that, is like adding a multiplier to the above, making things worse.
Wide skis are for soft snow. But it's been mis-sold to 90% of the punters who never go off-piste. (How often do you get really soft snow on piste?)
But the above is assuming the skier actually puts the skis on edge properly. One thing the article correctly pointed out, most punters sliding about on piste are not putting the skis on edge anyway! They're just sliding about on a pair of flat skis. As such, they're not suffering significant increase of knee strain despite the increased ski width.
Many wide skis are being sold to punters who didn't bother to learn to balance on a pair of "narrow" (appropriately sized) sub-80mm width skis. As a wider platform is more stable, hence the popularity of wider skis.
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@abc,
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| How often do you get really soft snow on piste? |
In springtime, quite often. My favourite type of snow.
Personally I think anything beyond 90mm is pointless in Europe. We simply don't get the kind of champagne that requires anything wider.
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@Steilhang, spring is the worst when it comes to the "right" skis. In the morning, it's rock hard. Late in the day, the top layer starts to turn to mash potato. My knees absolutely HATE my skis (89mm) in the morning!
I much prefer to ski narrow skis just to keep my knees happy. Even in the afternoon, as long as I don't slide passively on the flat part of the skis, the width is largely irrelevant.
The only time I like wider skis is when I go off-piste.
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