 Poster: A snowHead
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For the attention of SCGB members ... there's a new thread on the Club's forum seeking views for [an exploratory report concerning] a possible CO2 audit for the Club's administrative and repping travel.
Since this is 'internal business' I won't go into detail here, but any comment on the thread concerned would be most welcome. The topic is in 'The Ski Club' section of the forum.
Thank you.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thank you, David. But it's rather a shame you're refusing to answer most of the questions put to you by concerned members. Evasive, condescending and rude, pretty much describes your performance thus far! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ffs...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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DavidS, "Ffs..."
funnily enough, that's what I was saying to myself while reading David's responses.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Tim, why do you always have to be ... well just plain ... bitchy
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Masque, bitchy? My first post in the thread is nothing more than my own unemotional appraisal of David's performance in the SCGB related thread he has advertised here.
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Tim Brown, that's fine if you had posted it on the SCGB's site, here it just comes across as sniping and off topic.
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Masque, better than being a liar.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David@traxvax,  play nice now.
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| Masque wrote: |
| David@traxvax, play nice now. |
Or keep your thoughts to yourself. Iam sure I'm not the only one who finds them, on this matter, very tedious.
Thank you.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I can't see why this was brought up on SnowHeads. It's An SCGB topic for SCGB members only, whats it doing here?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Tim, I see that you'd prefer that your posting is kept out of the British Library. Maybe we can understand why.
What kind of image of the Ski Club do you think you are presenting by posting external personal attacks like that? There are potential members of the Club reading these threads. Do you think they want to join a Club which exposes them to potential public attack simply because they might disagree with a fellow Club member?
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Do you think they want to join a Club which exposes them to potential public attack simply because they might disagree with a fellow Club member? |
If they're already SnowHeads, then presumably they'll feel at home - after all it is more or less compulsory round here to develop at least one bitter feud with a fellow member every 4732 posts.
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You know it makes sense.
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David Goldsmith, you bang on about the T&C here and you bang on about similar things in a similarly never-ending fashion over on the scgb forum. You're not a very good advert for you, are you?
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 31-03-06 11:23; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
| Masque wrote: |
| David@traxvax, play nice now. |
Or keep your thoughts to yourself. Iam sure I'm not the only one who finds them, on this matter, very tedious.
Thank you. |
But the by-product of all this sniping is that deep down in our nasty little snowhead minds we are all gagging for the day it comes out into the public domain.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| deep down in our nasty little snowhead minds we are all gagging for the day it comes out into the public domain. |
Too true!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| DavidS wrote: |
| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| deep down in our nasty little snowhead minds we are all gagging for the day it comes out into the public domain. |
Too true! |
Not me, I'd be happy if there was no more references on snowHeads to whatever dispute there is.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar.org.uk, may flights of angels sing you to your rest. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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The feuding which DavidS refers to may be a negative by-product of the feudal model under which this site is controlled. [A less feudal model operates at the SCGB, but it's a lot more feudal than the old days]
If that's the case then a less feudal model for snowHeads could be explored, perhaps based on non-profit ownership of the site by (say) 100 shareholders and no hierarchy. Very few decisions are needed to host a discussion community, but rigorous moderation is needed to keep things friendly and to avoid sensitive people being alienated. Things are getting slightly crazy around here.
I'd argue that we do need a constitution and quite a degree of transparency about the operation to ensure its longevity ... in the best interests of all.
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Does the SCGB forum get SnowHeads posting there that have the sole intention of spreading disruption. Nice fellow that he may be, but Tim Brown, is a dooh dah stirrer. That is his sole purpose here.
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Frosty the Snowman, oh shut up!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We have feuding on this site through choice, not because of the site's ownership structure. It would be possible to use moderation to enforce a play the ball not the man rule, and to take off-topic feud-fuelling postings off the site, or onto their own thread. But we don't choose to do that - partly I suspect this is admin's preference, partly the way that the moderators have come to see their role, and partly because the community prefers a bit of conflict to spice things up.
I'd prefer a 'play the ball' rule, by the way - mostly because I think that obscure conflicts whose origins are lost on the mist of time, multiple personalities posting (where an in-group knows that a multiple is a multiple, and the rest do not), and similar behaviour come with a cost - steadily increasing clique-iness over time...
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I'm not sure that you're right, David.
I was wandering around the battlefield of the Battle of Hastings recently and was reminded that the Norman invasion of Britain (the last time we were conquered by a foreign power) resulted from bitter feuding in the kingdom of Edward the Confessor - who defined no line of succession on his death.
There are only vague parallels to Admin the Confessor, but some comparisons could be drawn.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David Goldsmith, I think that in your analogy, SCGB is Harold and admin is William. Too many burnt cakes, so one in the eye for them, and SnowHeads rule 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Feuds represent a breakdown of community values and control, but a community can re-exert them.
Communities create laws and see that they're applied. We have a long history of this ... since 1066!
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You know it makes sense.
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I think more likely that feuds are a part of human (or man???  ) nature and occur everywhere. If we had a model of non-profit ownership of the site, how would that stop certain members from arguing? Just by telling them they couldn't?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Well, no, we come down to the role of the moderators. Remember that an uncontrolled feud potentially becomes a libel, and a libel becomes a threat to the site. The sustainability of snowHeads is partly determined by the willingness of moderators to serve and 'execute', since they perform the first line of protection.
The [Media] Guardian has a recent report (23 March, registration required) on a libel suit involving a web forum, where name-calling ("Nazi" etc) was levelled against a member of the Conservative Party. He was awarded quite high damages.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Arthur: Please! Please, good people. I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
Woman: No one lives there.
Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Woman: We don't have a lord.
Arthur: What?
Dennis: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week,...
Arthur: Yes.
Dennis: ...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...
Arthur: Yes, I see.
Dennis: ...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,...
Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: ...but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major--
Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
Woman: Order, eh? Who does he think he is? Heh.
Arthur: I am your king!
Woman: Well, I didn't vote for you.
Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Woman: Well, how did you become King, then?
Arthur: The Lady of the Lake,... [angels sing] ...her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. [singing stops] That is why I am your king!
Dennis: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
Arthur: Shut up!
Dennis: I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
Arthur: Shut up, will you? Shut up!
Dennis: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
Arthur: Shut up!
Dennis: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
Arthur: Bloody peasant!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Goldsmith, it was a very interesting judgement and one that all forum posters should make themselves aware of since even if a post has been moderated, the libel or defamation still stands.
We also have to be aware that there are many lawyers now happy to take on libel cases under a contingency arrangement.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'd have to look up the article again and read it, but my recollection was that moderation had broken down on that forum ... or didn't exist at all.
I thought the 'moral' of the case was that a well moderated forum would actually be recognised in court as minimising any libel to the point of insignificance. Ultimately, it's all about the message the reader reads, and what correction/retraction/moderation takes place after the offending message is posted.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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David Goldsmith, moderation mitigates but doesn't eliminate is the reading I've had. Frequency and repetition play a larger role.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Tim Brown wrote: |
| Frosty the Snowman, oh shut up! |
Sorry was I being disruptive We are quite capable of knocking 7 bells out of each other without you fanning the flames all the time.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Tim Brown, I'm undecided whether you or David Goldsmith, for very different reasons, are the worst possible advert for SCGB.
Not sure the SCGB would want me, either. The last thing I'd want is to get caught up in such discussions and actually feel that they matter. I'm so happy my skiing is an occasion for fun and finding friends, not for self-aggrandisement, feuding, bitching, drawing up constitutions of websites, making enemies, pot-stirring etc. (or fighting a pseudo-legal war with others, as some snowheads do).
I do like watching flame wars though 
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Frosty the Snowman, while I agree that Tim Brown has mixed it like a good'un in many threads, he has been very civilised and reasonable where I've seen him in recent threads - Sméagol has been getting the upper hand lately. So please don't force him back to his old wayses (assuming that he doesn't see his recent style as a temporary weakness).
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GrahamN, I preffered him when he was funny. Getting pback to a point I made earlier: Do any SnowHeads troll on the SCGB?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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boredsurfin, if you find my comments tedious, then exercise a little self control and don't read them. Meanwhile, if our self appointed expert on all matters wants to make comments about other posters then he should expect some comments in return. My remarks about John Bilonick aka Masque are based on the dealings I have had with him, you are lucky that you haven't had that experience.
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Have a look on here and see if you can spot the best buddies
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FAQ
From other postings, it does rather sound dead now.
I'm sorry david but I really don't understand this - how does a different ownership system get rid of feuds between posters? And one eensy teensy little matter - snowHeads already belongs to Admin! 
