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Snow careers & career changers

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

If you have the resources at a young age and that probably means well to do parents, fine do it at someone else's expense.


I pay for everything myself. Lots of young ski bums scraping by working menial jobs in ski towns. This season I was sharing a room with 5 other guys all under 30, all scraping by to make ends meet (3 lifties, 2 ski patrol). If you want to go out there and do it you don't need money, of course without money you are certainly not going to get luxury. For some of us getting to ski everyday is worth slumming it a bit, depends on your priorities.

Quote:

To assume as you seem to that everyone is going to suffer from arthritis or similar conditions is way off the mark.


Not everyone. But as you get older there is increased likelihood of problems like arthritis. Physiologically we peak way before 50. It's not really controversial suggestion. If you just want to cruise groomers maybe it's not an issue. For some people goals are different. The piano example above is a good analogy, if I couldn't ski off piste at a reasonable level I wouldn't bother - a few days of groomers and I'm bored. Like @Nadenoodlee I've seen too many put their dreams off and then die or become physically incapable of doing them. I hope nobody is in that situation, but I'm in the mindset of if you want to do something go out and do it. I've heard many people say I wish I'd started younger, never heard anyone saying I wish I'd waited till retirement to ski more.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If as you say age doesn't matter why wouldn't you start younger and therefore have more years doing what you enjoy? As Warren miller said “If you dont do it this year, you will be one year older when you do.”
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Old Man Of Lech wrote:
@davidof, Scaremongering?


who knows but the trend is for warmer winters, the last two winters have been very warm even if the skiing has been good if a bit late starting, before that in the French Northern Alps we had 4 poor winters. Do it now I say.

When you are 65 the best place to be is in a nice warm office Happy


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 13-04-19 16:06; edited 1 time in total
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boarder2020 wrote:
I've heard many people say I wish I'd started younger, never heard anyone saying I wish I'd waited till retirement to ski more.


Quite
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@boarder2020, Very glad to hear you are making your own way. I heartily applaud you for doing so. You say you 'don't need money'. You DO still need the money. Good that you are making your own. Without any money no one could could do these things.
I'm certainly one of those who says, I wish I'd HAD THE CHANCE to start earlier. The options and opportunities open to young people are so much better now than 50 years ago. Think yourself lucky that you have these options. I do agree with your statement that no one ever said I wish I'd waited till retirement!
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@davidof,

''When you are 65 the best place to be is in a nice warm office'' WHAT!!!

Total codswallop. I spend every winter out there skiing. 69 next birthday!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Old Man Of Lech, the pension lifetime allowance is the amount you can accumulate in pension funds and is calculated at the time you start drawing your pension. It's currently £1,055,000 , so nobody will be able to draw a £1 million a year pension from that! Well, not unless you want to be skint after the first year of retirement wink
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Old Man Of Lech, oh, and were you the manager of the Sonneck in Lech? I may have skied with you!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Wags, YES, oversaw the Sonneck from the Alexandria which I managed directly.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Just to point out that pension returns and annuities are no longer the jackpot they were for the boomer generation. Company schemes are closed to new entrants. Even existing schemes like the famous BA pension are being wound up.

Advising someone who is 30 to dump all their cash in a pension in the hope they may be able to pilot their zimmer around some future piste should really come with some serious caveats.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@davidof, Did anyone suggest 'dumping' all their cash in anything? Not that I'm aware. I don't have an annuity. I don't have any kind of government protected final salary pension or any other 'jackpot' scheme. I saved and saved and thankfully made some wise investments. Literally, anyone can do the same IF THEY WANT. Your comments are so disparaging. You are completely WRONG when you say company pension schemes are closed to new entrants. Every employee earning more that 6136 a year must now by law be enrolled in a company scheme. Do keep up
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I don't have anything to speak of. No property. A few grand in a savings account. An old company pension in the UK that I can't get at and that is losing value at a rate of knots.

None of this stopped me moving to the mountains. You don't have to be a bum, you can actually get a job... Toofy Grin
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@queenie pretty please, Well said. That is the answer which seem to elude too many people. I still work the winters to fuel my ski habit. All those who want to do nothing except 'enjoy' themselves, don't live in the real world.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Old Man Of Lech wrote:
@davidof, Did anyone suggest 'dumping' all their cash in anything? Not that I'm aware. I don't have an annuity. I don't have any kind of government protected final salary pension or any other 'jackpot' scheme. I saved and saved and thankfully made some wise investments. Literally, anyone can do the same IF THEY WANT. Your comments are so disparaging. You are completely WRONG when you say company pension schemes are closed to new entrants. Every employee earning more that 6136 a year must now by law be enrolled in a company scheme. Do keep up


Calm down old guy, you'll give yourself a coronary.

Most final salary schemes have either been wound up or are closed to new entrants. Company schemes now invest your cash on the stock market in the hope of returns but they are pretty thin on the ground. What with housing being so expensive todays kids are not going to be retiring to a ski resort in 30 years time on the back of paying 5 bob a week into their stamp or putting a few tanners away with the local friendly society.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Old Man Of Lech, Thanks for the ski hosting day to St Anton! I thought that your backstory matched the hotel manager I chatted to on a chairlift!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Wags, Thank you. Glad you remembered me after all this time.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Wags, Thank you. Glad you remembered me after all this time. Hope the hosting day lived up to your expectations. I always enjoyed doing it and though not officially part of my duties, it was the best part.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Wags, Thank you. Glad you remembered me after all this time. Hope the hosting day lived up to your expectations. I always enjoyed doing it and though not officially part of my duties, it was the best part.
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@davidof, Are you for real? There really is no need for the sarcy comments. I and millions like me were never in final salary schemes. Only the elite few working for government organisations like teachers, nurses etc etc., or very large PLC's were. It is way too soon to say the present scheme won't benefit the new members. the stock market offers a good return when invested wisely and over the long term, which is exactly what I have done. Investments lost half their value in the 2008 crash but are back where they were now. Your 5 bob a week comments simply display your total lack of knowledge and ignorance of investing which you try to disguise with sarcastic comments.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@davidof, Stock market returns are fine if you're in the market for the long term, which by definition you are with a pension, unless you choose to swap it around every time the market moves. The key thing for UK workers is the huge tax advantage of stuffing as much as you can into a pension. There've been many pension scandals over the years, leading lots of people to avoid pensions. But the scammers and con-men are rare, you just need to be careful who you trust your hard earned cash to, and that's not rocket science.
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@Wags, good to see not everyone has the same mis-guided, ill judged view as Davidof. Isn't that a rather smelly scent BTW?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Old Man Of Lech, he's a really fantastic contributor to the snowheads forum, but won't be my financial advisor wink Strangely enough, Davidof is my favourite aftershave!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Wags, Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Mine neither. Knows nowt. As we say up north
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Unfortunately pension tax relief as been somewhat hamstrung so that means sticking as much in as you can while you're young.

As to the core question there's no right answer - people who make the choice of the mountains seem to end up building a decent life in the end, some people retire young and healthy enough to the mountains, for others life poo-poo ultimately gets in the way. What I would say is for all the cabin fever reasons given by others it's worth trialling a winter either way to see if it's for you before going all in.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
What I would say is for all the cabin fever reasons given by others it's worth trialling a winter either way to see if it's for you before going all in.


This X 1,000,000

Winter in the mountains isn't for everyone
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Wags wrote:
@Old Man Of Lech, the pension lifetime allowance is the amount you can accumulate in pension funds and is calculated at the time you start drawing your pension. It's currently £1,055,000 , so nobody will be able to draw a £1 million a year pension from that! Well, not unless you want to be skint after the first year of retirement wink


Yep.

Until I took a redundancy deal 2 years ago just before my 50th, this was my field.

Lots of chat here about the LTA limit, but to put it in very simple terms, if you have a final salary scheme you can enjoy a £50k per annum pension without triggering the extra tax charge.

If you manage your own pension (defined contribution, SIPP etc) and have more than £1m, well done but you are (a) very much in the minority, and (b) not going to have to worry too much about a little tax on the excess.

The average pension pot is <£50k in total, it's not a big issue in the wider population.

Personal experience tells me that I need less money now I am out of the corporate world.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Mike Pow wrote:
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
What I would say is for all the cabin fever reasons given by others it's worth trialling a winter either way to see if it's for you before going all in.


This X 1,000,000

Winter in the mountains isn't for everyone

It's not always possible though. It is, however, a good idea to really think about what you want and where you want to be. We didn't have chance to do a trial run (it was more sell house, pack truck, get on a plane, albeit over a period of 18 months), but we did do two recce trips (the first to settle on a location/country, and the second to find somewhere to live).

Innsbruck is only a small city, but it still has way more going on than your average ski resort, so you don't get the dead periods in the same way.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Scarlet wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
What I would say is for all the cabin fever reasons given by others it's worth trialling a winter either way to see if it's for you before going all in.


This X 1,000,000

Winter in the mountains isn't for everyone

It's not always possible though. It is, however, a good idea to really think about what you want and where you want to be. We didn't have chance to do a trial run (it was more sell house, pack truck, get on a plane, albeit over a period of 18 months), but we did do two recce trips (the first to settle on a location/country, and the second to find somewhere to live).

Innsbruck is only a small city, but it still has way more going on than your average ski resort, so you don't get the dead periods in the same way.


Agreed. Many times you have to go where the work is.

I think the main consideration is do you want a resort renowned for powder, or a resort renowned for a good snow & sun record with occasional powder days.

Having done over 10 winters on Hokkaido I've seen many people do a 'one and done' season because they can't cope with the constant snowfall and limited sunshine.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Just an individual case, but I shared a lift with a young guy in Heavenly and we got to chatting. He had done a season and then realised that to achieve what he wanted to do - which was to be able to ski/MTB a lot but have a reasonable lifestyle - he basically had to go back to college and enrol on a Hospitality Industry course. This because he wanted a career, not just a pastime, and he'd already got a bit bored just skiing every day. Yes, he was earning enough to fund his accommodation etc. but it wasn't getting him anywhere. He saw other people doing the casual seasonal work thing and felt that after a few years, he'd just be hitting a dead end. Whereas managing a business like a hotel, activity specialist, rental shop chain etc. would be a mix that would suit him. He was obviously bright, so I asked him what about just a career unrelated to hospitality/skiing but working locally, so he'd be near enough to ski on the best days. He said he didn't have any other vocation partiularly, but he was interested in the hospitality business, so this approach worked for him, but that if he was an IT guy like me, he'd probably just opt to work locally doing that, and then take advantage of being near to the slopes.

So the upshot is perhaps to look at two other options at least 1. Just doing what you do close to a ski area and 2. thinking about working 'in situ' but as more than just an instructor or chalet host, in a more management or business role.

Personally, a few years ago, when my kids were young, I applied to transfer to my multinational IT employers Geneva office. It coincided with my wife wanting to go back to work given our youngest would soon be off to school full-time. In the end, it didn't happen. I'm not sure we would have been at all better-off financially, and I don't regret staying in the UK, but I think it would have worked well in other ways and meant a secure financial base but the opportunity to enjoy the mountains in summer and winter.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Another completely different strategy might be to acquire your own Alpine property. Well, of course, that would be nice, if only ... But this is what quite a few people on the Snowheads Owners Forum seem to have done: instead of chasing ever-bigger UK homes, changing house every 4-5 years, they stick with what they have and spend the extra income coming from career progression etc. on their Alpine apartment (or chalet, if they're especially fortunate). So by the time they're 50ish they're on the last furlong of paying off both UK and Alpine homes. Then they can think about going for the sort of job or contracts that allow them to take extended (i.e. 3-4 week) or multiple Long Weekend breaks. Sort of an in-between career/property approach.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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[quote="boarder2020"]
Quote:
Physiologically we peak way before 50.


Only potentially... your actual physiological peaking may vary considerably. I am now doing more sporting activities post 50 than before that age. OK, you have to train harder just to stay in the same place, but if you were not devoting your life to training and high performance sports at a younger age then you may find that you are fitter in your 50's (due to having more time to indulge in pastimes) than you were in your 20's. I am now sking harder, hucking higher drops, mountain biking longer and harder routes and gernerally being fitter than I have ever been. My climbing has dropped off though just due to lack of practice.
Once I get my Austrian climbing wall built and have a man-shed to set my gym up in I'm sure that the situation will be rectified Toofy Grin
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:


Only potentially... your actual physiological peaking may vary considerably. I am now doing more sporting activities post 50 than before that age. OK, you have to train harder just to stay in the same place, but if you were not devoting your life to training and high performance sports at a younger age then you may find that you are fitter in your 50's (due to having more time to indulge in pastimes) than you were in your 20's.



No, your body is way more primed for physical performance earlier in life. Sure you can be fit later in life, but the science shows ageing decreases athletic performance. The only way you are fitter in your 50s is if you were really undertrained in your early life (I'm sure you would be doing all that stuff even harder if you were doing the same in your 20s). For trained people they always decline as they get older, it's just a case of how much you can minimise the decline.

Of course how significant this drop off is really depends on what your goals are. If you want to perform at an Olympic level you won't beat age, if you just want to cruise pistes age is probably no factor. The big grey area in between is more complicated. I'm not saying you can't ski well at older ages but the physiology and cognitive performance are more against you than for example in your 20s.

There is a wealth of studies on this topic. It's not even controversial, to the point where researchers are now interested in how we limit the changes rather than questioning if they happen.

A decent study providing a nice overview is can be read here: https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article/56/10/M618/584901

(Happy to provide others if people think I cherry picked).

There is really no doubt in the science. Your potential for athletic performance is way higher when you are young. That doesn't mean you can't perform to a high level when you are old.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
How did this thread descend into pensions and fitness? I have neither, but I still live in the mountains and get to ski lots. So there. snowHead
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boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:


Only potentially... your actual physiological peaking may vary considerably. I am now doing more sporting activities post 50 than before that age. OK, you have to train harder just to stay in the same place, but if you were not devoting your life to training and high performance sports at a younger age then you may find that you are fitter in your 50's (due to having more time to indulge in pastimes) than you were in your 20's.



No, your body is way more primed for physical performance earlier in life. Sure you can be fit later in life, but the science shows ageing decreases athletic performance. The only way you are fitter in your 50s is if you were really undertrained in your early life (I'm sure you would be doing all that stuff even harder if you were doing the same in your 20s). For trained people they always decline as they get older, it's just a case of how much you can minimise the decline.

Of course how significant this drop off is really depends on what your goals are. If you want to perform at an Olympic level you won't beat age, if you just want to cruise pistes age is probably no factor. The big grey area in between is more complicated. I'm not saying you can't ski well at older ages but the physiology and cognitive performance are more against you than for example in your 20s.

There is a wealth of studies on this topic. It's not even controversial, to the point where researchers are now interested in how we limit the changes rather than questioning if they happen.

A decent study providing a nice overview is can be read here: https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article/56/10/M618/584901

(Happy to provide others if people think I cherry picked).

There is really no doubt in the science. Your potential for athletic performance is way higher when you are young. That doesn't mean you can't perform to a high level when you are old.

My understanding is that there is a decline with age but it is actually pretty gradual until you hit about 80 when it becomes marked, well trained athletes in their 60's will be beaten by well trained athletes in their 30's but may well be better than poorly trained specimens in their thirties.
https://bmcsportsscimedrehabil.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2052-1847-6-31
http://speedendurance.com/2010/02/04/masters-age-related-differences-in-100m-sprint-performance/
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
queenie pretty please wrote:
How did this thread descend into pensions and fitness? I have neither, but I still live in the mountains and get to ski lots. So there. snowHead
Very good question. And answer. Laughing
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@boarder2020, and what do you plan to do when you no longer come up to your high standard of fitness? I hope there's an enjoyable Plan B. Toofy Grin
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I never claimed I am the most fit. I hope to be riding at the same level when I'm old. I know there is a chance I won't be able to, which is why I am taking advantage of being young and healthy now. I will cross the bridge of a plan b if and when I come to it.

Quote:


My understanding is that there is a decline with age but it is actually pretty gradual until you hit about 80



I've seen figures of 0.5% of vo2 max loss per year and 3% strength loss per year after middle age. Obviously there are a lot of factors in play (lifestyle, genetics, diet, exercise etc.). There is also increased risk of things like arthritis with age. My point was enjoy yourself while you're young and healthy, don't put things off to a time when you might not be able to do them.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Back to living in the mountains, many more people manage to do it now with the type of jobs that you can work remotely on. e.g My co-presenter of The Ski Podcast (www.theskipodcast.com btw) Jim moved out to La Clusaz with his family. We don't earn any money from the Pod, his income is as a digital marketer. He can do that from anywhere as long as he has an internet connection.

My brother and I own an apartment in Chamonix. Over the years we've had various tenants who have worked for UK companies and simply front up at their desk each morning online. Flexi time and freelance jobs allow you to get on the hill whenever you want.

However, if you have the entrepreneurial passion and energy to deal with the red tape, plus maybe an EU passport, I would suggest setting up a business similar to Huski (hu.ski). This type of ancillary business doesn't have huge fixed overheads like a chalet company, is relatively easy to scale up and down, and is a good hedge on the decline of the catered chalet holiday.
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Yes but a ton of work @iainm, much rather have my lovely lazy desk job (yes-remote ) than have to shuffle a lasagne round town in the snow snowHead
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Im in a position that I can live in the mountains but I don't. However, it would not be difficult. I work in Asia from a European base and fly there to work about 7-10 days/month. The rest of the time I'm at home planning the sales strategy and my next trip. This could be done easily in a town near a mountain. EG between Munich Airport and the mountains. Or in the alps or in Bolzano....

Or anywhere else 1/2 way to an airport so you are not snowed in.
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