Piste Rules

A snowHead

Just back from a week in 3 valleys. It seems each year things get worse. Riders, ski and board, stopping in the middle of the piste, particularly on brows. Ski schools too. When approached these people just argue back.

Basic safety being ignored or taught.

Has anyone else experienced this, does it matter, am I the only one who cares? Have the rules changed?

I'd appreciate any views, for or against.

Ta

A snowHead

@Phatairs, I think you need to watch this video for some inspiration as to what to do next time you're faced with inconsiderate piste users:

http://youtube.com/v/Jo8FR8GGoJ0

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

If it's a ski/board school group I take a photo first and if the instructor is an back bottom I take the photo to the management and make a health n safety complaint. That usually gets some attention as management is liable here in NZ

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It also seems that a healthy spray of cold snow is not appreciated either.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Very annoying.

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I was in the 3 Valleys at the end of January and noticed very much the same - people stopping right in the middle of the piste rather than off to the side, and as you say, particularly on the brows. I also noticed lots of people speeding into trail merges without looking, uphill skiers not noticing downhill skiers, basically every aspect of piste safety ignored.

I'd like to say it was the snowboarders, but it was just as likely to be skiers! And actually, occasionally even ski instructors assembling their classes right in the middle of pistes.

In the US, both ski patrol and ski instructors remind people of "the skiers code" relatively regularly, so I feel like this is less of an issue. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent in France.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Though you do (very) occasionally see posters up in some resorts I have to admit that after skiing 18+ years it is only when I recently started as a trainee instructor (CSIA L2) that I became aware of the official international slope rules. I was amazed at the fact that no instructor (and there were many over the years in Italy, Austria & France) ever really emphasised them during the many ski school & private lessons I did over the period.... Personally I have laminated a copy of the Canadian ARC (Alpine Responsibility Code) and not only cover the rules with any prospective students but give them all an individual copy of same. Most adults admit that they weren't aware that when they purchase a ski pass that they are legally bound by these rules. Can't understand why the ski pass office / resort maps etc don't emphasis same ....

After all it is free

.... As an aside when I do ski over the brow of a slope and come across (usually) a snowboarder plonked in the middle admiring the view or doing his nails or whatever it is they all do when congregating there I try and pass on the ARC message by whacking their helmet with my ski pole as I whizz by .... (when not leading a group obviously)

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... not sure if it helps get the safety message across but its very satisfying on a personal level

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..... throw in a curse in French as you pass by to throw them off the scent

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Excellent. Find someone acting like a dickhead and act like a bigger dickhead to make the point not to act like a dickhead.

You know it makes sense.

The only message it sends is that the person doing it is a lady's front bottom.
I they stopped and explained what they were doing wrong it might help.
but if anyone ever hits me with a pole (not that I stop in the middle of a piste), had better be bloody quick and make sure I can't spot them at the next lift as they might not like the reaction they get.
bear in mind boarders have way more grip in their boots than skiers do

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Chill out people! There is too much antagonism on this site! Let’s just live and let live!

A snowHead

Loving the auto correct in my post.
I agree to a point about the antagonism, but saying it is good to hit someone with a pole is just idiotic

A snowHead

It is idiotic to self appoint as some kind of piste sheriff and confer the right to smack someone on the head with your pole on yourself.

And in my experience most definitely not a snowboarder specific issue.

Plenty of dumb skiers out there as well.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

My whinge from a couple of weeks ago - Does no one bother to look uphill any more when they push off?

I know that skiers have to assume those below them may do all sorts of unexpected things. But again and again, people would s l o w l y start to g l i d e from stationary, right into the path of oncoming skiers, all without even a glance uphill. It was particularly noticeable from people in a group who'd just assume that because the person next to them had launched, it was OK for them to push off without checking.

Of course, we all forget from time to time and that's just how it is. But if you do nothing else, I'd make a plea to always check uphill before launching.....

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Morning all .... Apologies if my original reply caused any antagonism on the site .... (Kinda guessed it might on a Friday night) .... Anyway if anything it heated up the debate about slope safety rules which we all agree need to be emphasised. Coming from a CSIA backround I can tell you that it's an instant fail if you don't specifically tell your class (and demonstrate same) to look up each and every time before you take off from a starting position. I presume BASI etc are similar !!??!!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

... regarding snowboarder (and skiers) stobbing over brows it's probably one of the most common on piste hazards that you encounter. True one shouldn't go over a blind brow at a speed that you can't stop to avoid someone but normal physics would suggest that the person on the other side will generally going to come out worse .... Either way it's much better to avoid such senarios that to be sitting beside each other in A&E arguing over whose fault it was. Generally a skier is a taller and possibly easier to jump target than a snowboarder who when sitting down crossways becomes a 5 foot+ wide barrier... I have broken bones twice in ski related incidents. That experience plus old age plus my CSIA training have made me a total convert to preaching slope safety to my ski buddies. One question I always ask them is what's the difference between recreational skiing and extreme skiing.... Always get a few funny answers .... My answer to my own Q is "1 Second .... cause that's all it takes for it to go from being a fun day out to you lying there injured " .... and from there we then go on to discuss the ARC rules, slope assessment, situational awareness etc ... Snowboarders get their own mention purely because they are blind every second turn & of course tend to congregate over every lip / brow that has a view !! .... If I was to stop and explain the stupidity of this habit each time I'd never get to ski. Where I did make a point of stopping recently was to point out to a woman (who turned out to be German) that her ski outfit which no doubt looked lovely in the shop was actually dangerous and could lead to either herself or a fellow skier (or probably both) being hurt. With a snow white helmet, jacket & salopetes she was almost invisible !!! She didn't take my advice in the spirit it was intended but at least I did try !!

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I'm with Gordyjh on this.
1. unless i've missed it, there is nothing in the first 39 rules about not stopping in the middle of the piste.
2. we are human: we don't obey rules.
3. stopping in the middle of the piste is only a problem for those how like ski too fast and straight line.
4. slow down, relax, enjoy the scenery, enjoy the wonderful feeling of skiing.

Skiing is fun. Skiing is essentially just an excuse for adults to "play". Relax, enjoy, and have fun skiing round the other skiers, both mobile and static.

I agree that looking up the piste before setting off is sensible: like checking the road before stepping off the pavement.
Meantime, just assume that all the other skiers are idiots, and give them all a wide berth.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

If everybody just treated the other piste users with respect then we wouldn’t need a mass of rules. Just treat others the way you would want to be treated yourself and a lot of the problems would disappear

After all it is free

I was taught to ski in Switzerland some 45 years ago, it was part of the lesson that we ONLY stopped on the side of a piste and NEVER stopped in the centre of the piste. Everybody adhered to this rule.
How things have changed....

@Jonpim, FIS rules are slightly different from Snowheads ones!

https://www.ellis-brigham.com/news-and-blogs/ski-and-snowboard-etiquette

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@Jonpim You did miss it.

Canadian Code: Do not stop where you obstruct a trail, or are not visible from above.
Australian Code: Do not stop where you are not clearly visible from above.
FIS (Europe): Unless absolutely necessary, a skier or snowboarder must avoid stopping on the piste in narrow places or where visibility is restricted.

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I'm with @philwig in that I really don't think things have gotten worse. What might be happening, is that due to a variety of factors (e.g. cheaper flights, faster lifts), there tend to be more people on the slopes nowadays (no idea if any stats could back this up or negate it...). So for the experienced skier who enjoys going quite fast, that means more people to swerve around, etc.

I do agree with @LaForet about skiers/boarders looking uphill before setting off, mind, and that's in the FIS code. Something I was taught to always do when I was learning (more than 20 years ago now, ouch!), and I assume is still taught nowadays (if not, it should be!). Though people will sometimes forget, and the sensible thing is when you spot a group of stationary skiers downhill, give them a wide enough berth that even if they do ski off without looking you're still going to avoid them fairly comfortably.

Similarly, while the FIS code specifies not to stop in blind spots on the piste, you shouldn't really be coming over a ridge at a speed where you can't stop/take avoidance action, if needed.

I'm less bothered about people stopping in the middle of the piste, provided it's reasonably wide. You don't need to be skiing straight down the middle, so simply overtake them on either side.

A couple of seasons. ago I "hoovered" up a class who were occupying 25 of an available 30m wide piste. The group had a young British instructor who did acknowledge that possibly her people were in a vulnerable position.
This issue goes to the heart of her training. I pondered enquiring further regarding her status. If the teachers on the hill are so ill equipped to demonstrate good group management and good practice then the future is surely bleak!

You know it makes sense.

@Rogerdodger, just to clarify. Do you mean they had stopped and were taking up 25m of the 30m piste? If so, then clearly stupid, and in breach of FIS rules. Or were they doing the famous "ski school snakes across the whole piste" manoeuvre? Which is a bit of a d*ck move on such a wide slope, and can be annoying for faster skiers trying to get by, but perfectly acceptable within the code.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

To clarify, a stationary group awaiting further instruction/direction. Probably 2nd/3rd week skiers with no idea how vulnerable they were, hence my intervention.

A snowHead

In that case, fair enough, and good on you. Stopping across pretty much the whole width of a pretty wide piste is really poor, and as you say, creates a dangerous situation completely needlessly.

Didn't mean to imply anything, it's just you see far too many comments on e.g. Youtube videos of a skier/boarder wiping out someone from a ski school who are snaking their way down the piste, where the commenters seem to be laying the blame on said ski school (e.g. "people who can't ski should get off the mountain and not take up the whole run").

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Had a priceless ski school situation last week. My ski partner sets off and as I am following instructor sets off follwed by 6 ducklings. I pause my follow. Instructor then stops so I set off again just as I am getting level so I can cut left ahead of them into the offpiste line he sets off again. Eventually wait for the ducklings to separate into 2 clumps and cut in. I swear he wals just trying to wee wee me off.

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I know some people like rules, but a laminated copy? Shocked

It can only be love

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Lamiate work better with snow than plain photocopy paper !

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In Lech a couple of weeks ago I nearly collected a woman when she set off from the side of the piste straight into my path without checking first. Luckily I wasn’t going very fast and was able to stop quickly.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

It's very common for less confident skiers to stop at the brow of a steep section in order to plan their route and maybe pluck up courage. So long as we are not talking about a huge group and they stop at the brow where they are visible, I have zero problem with this. The worst that can hsppen is that I have to slow down and show a little courtesy. I have far more of a problem with people going over a blind brow or through dense trsffic at far too high a speed. Race speeds require closed off race courses. No different to fast motorbikes or cars, uou can only push them to the limit on a race track.

Words fail me at the image of qualified ski instructors physically dishing it out to other guests on the hill that they perceive to have broken the rules. Nobody who behaves like that has any place on a skislope let alone in a position of responsibility in a ski school.

After all it is free

Why assume that ski instruction doesn't have its share of egotists, douchebags and hotheads like any other profession? I've seen up close an Italian deliberately chase down and crash into a boarder someway off piste while ranting about bambinos who were nowhere to be seen. Assault plain and simple although as the boarder didn't appear to be hurt I decided not to hang around and get involved as no doubt instructors have friends in the caribineri.

I've got to admit you most flagrantly see the look uphill rule on start or merge being broken by almost all ski classes.

Good feedback, ta
It seems generally that stopping in the middle of the piste is not the best plan, and looking up when appropriate is. Some would like to ignore one rule, but to add a rule requiring people to slow down, these people may be found in the middle lane on the motorway.
Thanks again.
Phatairs, age and attitude unknown

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It would also be really helpful if people adjusted their skiing behaviour to make it appropriate to the slope. We’re in a France and were skiing the last part of a green yesterday, dodging the 4 joined up ski schools who were snaking across piste (the instructors suddenly “launched” them without looking upslope) to be joined by some @@@@@@@ treating it as though it were a red. Digging in so that snow was flying everywhere, shouting and skiing too close to us and the littlies who were going down like ninepins. It was slushy, so picking a line was tricky too. We’ve not skied in France before and to be honest, I’m not sure we will again. It’s very beautiful but I’m finding it quite stressful as there doesn’t seem to be the same regard for others on the slope that I’m used to. Don’t get me started on the pushing in at lift queues. Since when was that ok? Loved that Mitchell video Very Happy

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