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GCSE PE - please recommend me a video camera, snowHeads ski forum
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GCSE PE - please recommend me a video camera

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi all. My DD has chosen skiing as one of her sports for her PE GCSE (the exam board is OCR). We're hoping to do some filming at half term and I was wondering if someone could recommend a camera for this.

I took some film on my Samsung S8 at Hemel and joined it up with some film that DH took on his iPhone SE. It's OK but nothing special. I'm now wondering if I should go for a proper video camera (but something not too bulky) or a GoPro type of camera.

Any thoughts please? Especially from someone who's been through the GCSE filming.

Incidentally, one of the criteria for the OCR GCSE is that they use red runs. We're going to Canada and they don't have reds there, only green, blues and blacks. OCR say that they should use black in that case but most of the runs aren't groomed and some of the skills to be shown would be better on a red, not black. What did your children do?

Thanks Cool
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Phone should be phine, especially the decent ones listed
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
phone doesn't have zoom though, which is the main issue as people end up as tiny dots!

I did this for my daughter using a combination of GoPro and a handheld Sony camcorder with optical zoom. So anything even second hand with optical zoom would work. Some (alot) of cameras can do short video with optical zoom which would be fine. for a GoPro you have to be next to them, or skiing on their tails!!

I got a list of things we had to video and ticked them off!!

Ref red vs black, just find some easy blacks or hard blues with suitable conditions I'd say.

I'll send you a link to her video if you wish??


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 4-02-19 15:54; edited 1 time in total
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in fact you can borrow my camcorder if you wish? All I'd ask is you pay postage and replace it if you break it???
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I have a canon SX 60 digital camera.
It has a brilliant zoom, but needs a tripod.

this is the vid clip that convinced me to get one!

http://youtube.com/v/7SM1zruEdHc
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Also, be aware that Canada (well, Whistler, Lake Louise and Sunshine anyway) has blacks and double blacks.

I've found that their single blacks often equate to the harder red in some European resorts.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@geetee, oh good luck with it. We helped my nephew when he decided to do snowboarding as one of his sports. Really good tip from @kitenski, define in advance what you need and where you need it and tick it off. Review and then if you have to repeat. It is a lot harder than you think to get them to nail it as it seemed every time we recorded him he'd catch and edge, something he rarely did in normal circumstances.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
How would they know/check what the grading of the slope you filmed on actually was? Theres a lot of variety in grading out there and unless you must take a continuous shot of the piste marker then the run, how would they know?
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I did our youngest on a phone for his gcse.
I skied behind him and also stood as he came towards me and used the phones zoom.

I made sure he took his helmat and goggs off after each segment to prove it was him. The footage was happily accepted. As long as you film the elements required you'll be fine.

Piste markers etc could help
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
@ster, It's not the grading that's important, it's the apparent steepness which is easily identifiable. So find a steep but nicely groomed bit of piste for filming. If the slope's difficulty lies in being ungroomed, it may be hard to convey on film.

I used my rubbish phone for getting the technical bits like traversing, stopping, short turns etc. But then a cheap go-pro knock off for following him down the mountain for his timed runs. Worked a treat.
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Seems like the OP indicates a stipulation of a red graded (or higher) slopes.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@ster, We must have done Edexcel, which essentially boiled down to proving to your PE teacher that you can ski well down easy slopes as well as difficult ones. The school's head of PE would probably be the best person to ask.
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ster wrote:
How would they know/check what the grading of the slope you filmed on actually was? Theres a lot of variety in grading out there and unless you must take a continuous shot of the piste marker then the run, how would they know?


Exactly this, one resorts blues are another resorts reds (or blacks if you go from L2A to Glen Nevis according to my 14 year old daughter)
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Thanks kitenski that's great information and a very kind offer. It's tempting but I'd be panicking about breaking it Laughing

Mr Egg Wow! Just wow!! I couldn't believe how far away you were with that zoom. Amazing camera. The only thing is, it looks quite bulky. I was hoping for something a bit neater.

What we did with the ski race to get round the zoom bit was DH filmed the top section, I filmed the bottom section and then I joined them together. It worked quite well but I thought maybe it would be better to invest in a proper camera.

The OCR requirements state....


Core skills, to include:
These may be demonstrated on appropriate terrain on a minimum of a red run

* Ascend and descent on a short slope of moderate gradient
* Control rate of descent by ploughing
* Control speed and direction of travel whilst plough steering
* Show the development of plough steering to plough parallel turning
* Show plough parallel turning over a range of amplitudes
* Show linked parallel turning with a pole plant
* Skid to a halt from both sides

To me, these skills would be better performed on blue/red rather than red/black. There are some blue runs in Whistler with a decent steepness that is more akin to red: e.g. the top of the Saddle, Upper Franz's, lower GS (just before the Harmony Chair). I would choose these types of runs if I thought it would be suitable. There aren't many groomed black runs - Raven and Dave Murray (which is not always groomed) would probably work. The Toilet Bowl section of Dave Murray might be OK too. One concern is that all these runs will be busy as it's Presidents Week as well as half term.

The advanced skills include (and again it says a minimum of a red run)

* Show rhythmical parallel turning across a variety of conditions.
* Parallel turning varying the extent to which skis skid as appropriate
* Modify tempo and intensity of turning to control speed of travel as appropriate
* Make rhythmical arcs within differing corridors
* Make rhythmical arcs and change the amplitude of arcs during the descent
* Skate around arcs (showing support against outside ski before the skis travel through fall line) - not entirely sure what they mean by 'skate around arcs'

DD is a very capable skier so some of these would be done on unpisted areas in Whistler as well as pisted.

Does this look similar to the other exam boards?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Gatebusters? Has "understanding" coaches I heard!? wink
Could do it on Ptarmigan then - if it's good enough for training future Olympians, probably is ok for GCSE PE? Madeye-Smiley
Upper Dave Murray might work - steep and quiet, with the rollers to show adaption to the terrain. Again, would be hard to argue that an ex-olympic downhill course wasn't up to the grade!


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Mon 4-02-19 18:28; edited 2 times in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@geetee, the camera I had isn't on sale anymore, but would fit into a jacket pocket and looks like you can get it on ebay, eg

f:0" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Complete-Sony-Handycam-HDR-TG3-Bundle/153352979951?hash=item23b48cc5ef:g:4PkAAOSw~llcPhOS:rk:3Neh Nehf:0

That list looks similiar to my daughters list...plough turning on a red run will test her core skills nicely!!

I'd get some clarification on Skate around arcs to be absolutely sure what they expect to see. It could be many things, I immediately thought it could be this, but could be 100% wrong!! https://nyskiblog.com/thousand-steps-ski-drill/
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
We're trying to line up Dr Death for a few days of Max 4 stuarth but I thought we could get the core skills bit done ourselves. I don't suppose you have a GoPro that we could borrow do you?? NehNeh We can pay in Marmite wink Little Angel

Good idea about Ptarmigan. Is it ever open to all without doing Gatebusters?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Unfortunately no GoPro. Sam doesn't need encouragement to do crazier things! I'll see if I can find someone who might be able to lend me one though.

I don't think Ptarmigan is generally open to the public as it is closed for race training (at least at the weekends). But Ken coaches on it so might be worth pinging him. I'll check with wmsc folk.
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Thanks Stu!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@geetee, I can lend you a go pro if you need one. That may depend on when you're off though.
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I have one or two gopro's if you want to borrow one.


Well a few more than one or two and some snowHead will know.
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Thank you so much for the kind offers @Ray Zorro and @ansta1 but I’ve got a GoPro lined up now. snowHead

@kitenski I wondered if it was something like that too. I did find a video on YouTube where a candidate was demonstrating this but it didn’t seem to look any different to normal skiing. It’s not a BASI thing is it? Puzzled
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geetee wrote:
We're going to Canada and they don't have reds there, only green, blues and blacks. ...?

Thanks Cool


In traditional snowheads fashion I'm replying before I read the thread. Canadian black run is a red in Europe. Double black is a black. Worth getting in touch with OCR about their criteria. Our kids did CEA PE as a freebie GCSE. We even got some funding to take them skiing. Laughing Laughing The hardest bit was getting them to plough after 10 years of not ploughing. The final video for each one was them skiing bumps with complete control. This took three appeals to the exam board because the examiners in question had clearly never skied bumps and couldn't see the difference between nailing bumps and linking parallel turns.
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Quote:

Canadian black run is a red in Europe. Double black is a black.


Where did you ski in Canada?! Double black often means cliffs, trees, tight chutes etc. Nothing in Europe (on-piste) compares to whistler double blacks.
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boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:

Canadian black run is a red in Europe. Double black is a black.


Where did you ski in Canada?! Double black often means cliffs, trees, tight chutes etc. Nothing in Europe (on-piste) compares to whistler double blacks.

Black is black. Double black is off-piste.

Red is really blue. There're easy blues and difficult blues, just like reds.

Anyway, not all blacks are ungroomed. Just have to hunt down one that's been groomed the day you want to film. To demonstrate the plough and plough turns, you probably want to find a flatter section of a black. While the parallel turns can be done on any section of a groomed black.

But I wonder, who's checking the color of the run? And how do you prove it with a camera? Do you have to ski past a trail sign?


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Thu 7-02-19 21:00; edited 1 time in total
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@abc, I’m pretty sure that I saw something that said you need to show the piste marker that shows the colour of the run. I’ll check again.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I've just been on to the OCR website and they've changed the criteria for skiing. On the positive side, the core skills can now be demonstrated on appropriate terrain and they've removed the bit about skate around arcs. I bet it was because no-one knew what it was. NehNeh

They've also added that candidates must be assessed within full competitive situations. That's actually OK for us as DD skis at a race club and takes part in races on snow.

I've been looking at a little Sony HandyCam camcorder - off to John Lewis to see if they've got one. Very Happy

Thanks snowHead for all your input - it's much appreciated!
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:

I've been looking at a little Sony HandyCam camcorder - off to John Lewis to see if they've got one. Very Happy


Once you've got a camera, I'd suggest having a look at Amazon to get spare batteries. I found a bundle of two spare batteries, plus a charger for £20 for mine.

The cold really eats the battery. Having a spare, preferably in an inner pocket keeping warm, might give you a much better chance of getting your filming done whilst the going is good.
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You know it makes sense.
@London_Falcon, good idea!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Digital cameras take great video these day, and are far more versitile than a camcorder. You may even already have one? I've been using a Panasonic tz-something this week to shoot video and it's been great, is cheap and compact, huge zoom, decent stabilization, and usb charged battery lasts all day no problem. Camcorders are dying I reckon, unless you need very specific things or are a pro with external microphones etc and spending way more than a normal human would want to.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
The better camcorders excel in stabilisation, zoom, audio in facilities (you need a manual audio level option, not automatic, for decent results).

A lot of semi-pro work is done with DSLRs though; usually where you can set it up, and in most cases they record the sound separately. Look up e.g. this
https://tascam.com/us/product/dr-701d/top
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Not sure if this is still an active search but I recently scored a camera on eBay for just £100 that would probably be suitable.

It's a Casio Exilim EX-F1:
https://www.exilim.eu/euro/exilimhighspeed/exf1/specifications/

I was interested in this model when it came out in 2008 but the $1000 price tag put me off. These days more reasonably priced second hand models are popping up so you may want to find yourself a copy - or something similar.

Relevant features:
* 36-432mm (135 equivalent) optical zoom - so you can follow a skier over a long distance
* electronic viewfinder - so you can see in bright light
* high-speed video recording (eg. 512x384 at 300fps) - so you can analyse turns in slo-mo
* big battery for extended recording

Note, however, that zooming is not possible while in high-speed video.

I've not had chance to try it skiing yet but I've been trying to video bees all afternoon. They are surprisingly camera-shy little critters but here's one at 300fps to give you some idea of how slow that is:

https://vimeo.com/424542966

Edit:

Here's a telemarker at 300fps with an EX-F1 (not my video):


http://youtube.com/v/wFw3LYBv2zU
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