 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All,
As above, do boots soften with age? I am thinking of getting new boots for punter racing courses in the summer. I have had Lange RS130's for about 4-5 seasons of hard skiing now, and they feel pretty soft. Of course the liners are a bit packed out, but I also feel like they are flexier. I am also a bit heavier now at about 85 kg/6 ft and have made a lot of progress in aggressively skiing. Could also be that I suppose.
I am currently looking at the plug versions and thinking of the ZB model. Any thoughts? In addition, if anyone knows of extreme differences in fit between the 97mm RS130 and the plugs, I'd be curious to hear it. I have narrow feet, and with a decent footbed always got on well with Lange boots.
Cheers as per!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I would say (and I'm guessing)....they get brittle with age and soften with use. If you are heavier, they will feel softer. As you improve and ski faster, they may also seem softer.
Remember, temperature has a big impact.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| I would say (and I'm guessing)....they get brittle with age and soften with use. |
Indeed, it seems to me that the plastic gets somehow 'milkier' with age. Must be all the UV, although I wish I had paid more attention to polymers 101 at uni!
I'll bung a booster strap on as well in the mean time if I can make myself pay 60-odd euros for one. I'm still at the stage of adding it to the basket then being too tight to put in the card details!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@JamesHJ, basic difference between the RS (97mm) and the ZB is 5mm in width, if you can get into the ZB without the help of a boot fitter either you have the narrowest feet in the world or they are too big, it is rare that i see a plug boot like that which does not need grinding / stretching in numerous areas
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@JamesHJ, I don't think you need spend so much money and don't the RS's have straps anyway?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| Remember, temperature has a big impact. |
This - having skied at Hillend in the height of summer my boots were so soft it was unreal !
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| CEM wrote: |
| @JamesHJ, basic difference between the RS (97mm) and the ZB is 5mm in width, if you can get into the ZB without the help of a boot fitter either you have the narrowest feet in the world or they are too big, it is rare that i see a plug boot like that which does not need grinding / stretching in numerous areas |
Good to know! It will be interesting for sure. I think my wife brought hers back at least once to the shop.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @JamesHJ, I don't think you need spend so much money and don't the RS's have straps anyway? |
The older ones only have the standard velcro only. Besides, all the cool kids here have boosters!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@JamesHJ, a booster won’t make you cool.
And I doubt it will work any better than standard fit.
The original strap on my Salomon X-Labs bore a remarkable resemblance to “Booster” design. Soon broke and replaced for free by SOLE...
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @JamesHJ, a booster won’t make you cool |
Shhh.... the future of the ski industry relies on the middle aged thinking they can buy themselves cool 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks for the links, delivery to France is often dear though. Sadly we don't have a local ski shop either, and I am not a fan of buying from the mega online places. I'll pop into some shops in the Grenoble area when I get a chance.
Looking forward to tinkering with my boots!
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Reading various sources, it sounds like it is not easy to compare flex between the RS130 and the ZA,ZB, ZC etc. The ZB sounds like an absolute brute as well ("This flex is designed for full size, elite FIS athletes.").
I'm going to go with my gut feeling that my current boots are feeling softer from age/packing out etc, and see if they recommend the same again or the ZA in the shop. Unlikely that my skiing has improved that much that I am just crushing my current boots!
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You know it makes sense.
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@JamesHJ, ZJ 100/110, ZA 120/130, ZB 130/140 ZC 150/160 ish there is no definitive flex for the lange race boots, beware wherever you buy them must (other than on the ZJ+ and ZA+ models) have a router set up to cut the sole lugs back to ISO norm so if they just say sure, we will order you one in they might not be able to fit it.... i say this as several shops in the UK and europe sell these boots to their clients and then only when the client can't get the boot to fit the binding do they remember that it needs cutting back. just make sure you use a reputable fitter with experience in working on world cup boots
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks again- this is kind of like ground hog day! You gave me the same sound advice some time ago when my wife was buying her race boots.
We know a very competent race shop in Voiron, they just don't bother taking the warning stickers off as (presumably) they are in English....
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=118177&highlight=
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Poster: A snowHead
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I can confirm that boots go brittle with age as I had a pair shatter on a very cold day a few years back. Fortunately I found out be tripping up some steps as the sole came off one, rather than a failure when skiing 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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All plastics leach their volatiles and become brittle over time. The higher the ambient temperature, the faster the loss and the sooner they lose any structural elasticity/integrity. That misty film on the inside of your car windows? That's your interior dissolving  Modern plastics are better but there is a trade off between legacy production systems, product durability and cost that means most ski boots have a limited life span defined by use and environment. Keep'me cool and dark and they'll last for a long time . . . Hot, sunny or both, you may as well plan on buying new every year.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| CEM wrote: |
| beware wherever you buy them must (other than on the ZJ+ and ZA+ models) have a router set up to cut the sole lugs back to ISO norm so if they just say sure, we will order you one in they might not be able to fit it.... i say this as several shops in the UK and europe sell these boots to their clients and then only when the client can't get the boot to fit the binding do they remember that it needs cutting back. |
That's interesting. Why are the lugs different in the first place? Or are WC race bindings built differently/take bigger lugs (for retention?) or something?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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So the lugs and soles can be custom ground to do proper boot canting, rather than just the typical cuff adjustment.
Probably.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| CEM wrote: |
| @JamesHJ, basic difference between the RS (97mm) and the ZB is 5mm in width, if you can get into the ZB without the help of a boot fitter either you have the narrowest feet in the world or they are too big, it is rare that i see a plug boot like that which does not need grinding / stretching in numerous areas |
Ha! So everyday is a school day on snowheads. This is a very interesting comment, as I always thought I had rather narrow feet, and indeed have suffered life long from twisted (even broken) ankles, pronation etc. I'm also a geek. And bored. So bear with me!
I just went a did a not-very precise measurement of one foot using a piece of paper, pencil and assistant. My foot comes out as 85 x 263 mm, which even allowing for a generous +/- 5mm error bar, leaves me at one end of the width/length distribution. If you look at the data in Fig. 7 of an EU mass foot measurement campaign, the aspect ratio of my feet is pretty wild!
https://www.3dbodyscanning.org/cap/papers/2010/10338_31jurca.pdf
I need to measure my girth as well (ooh err!), but rather suspect that my feet are extremely low volume as well. It took me a lot of time to dial in cuff canting, spoiler position etc on my current RS130 boots, and I eventually settled on Superfeet insoles. The latter fixed a A-shaped stance problem that had been troubling me for a long time. I also did quite a lot of mucking about with folded trail maps, although I eventually lost those and forgot about them. In general, the info in 'Ultimate Skiing' was useful for a punter!
Anyway, it is a pleasure to be prompted to learn more by comments from actual experts  I am sort of inspired to pay more attention to every day shoes now, and hope that various knee creakings might be reduced as a result.
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The foot dimensions make interesting comparison.
Mine are 279mm in length and 112mm width! More like duck feet, must be some Mallard dna in there somewhere 
I struggle with footwear generally to get them wide enough not to crush my toes widthways. My ski boots are wide fitting and then pushed out in addition.
High arches too, bare footprint leaves no contact with floor between heel and toes, just goes to show what ranges the boot fitters have to cope with.
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