 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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dsoutar, been posted a couple of times at least over the years, but still worth it for education purposes.
Thers also some vids, showing the drawbacks of only fitting a pair of winters instead of 4 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Would have been even more informative to have had FWD on summers and 4WD on winters to show all the possibilities. The bloke is obviously a mega tyre geek!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Also worth checking your traction setting for going onto snow, whether you have winters or summers. My BMW Owners Manual is very badly translated form the German. Which takes about 400 words and a bunch of acronyms like DCT OFF, DST ON etc. to tell me that going onto snow, I press the car-with-wobbly-lines button for 3 secs 'till TRACTION appears on the instrument panel. And then do the same when I get back onto tarmac and the TRACTION disappears. What happens if I press the car-with-wobbly-lines button for too long? It doesn't say, but in fact it turns off all the traction aids and the car turns into a death trap.
So worth doing some research ahead of actually needing to act as different cars use different settings for snow (I've only come across one that actually has a snow flake symbol, which surely is the most intuitive?).
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| LaForet wrote: |
| So worth doing some research ahead of actually needing to act as different cars use different settings for snow (I've only come across one that actually has a snow flake symbol, which surely is the most intuitive?). |
I had one of those ages ago, think it was a Peugeot. Pressed it frequently, but it never started to snow. Was most disappointed.
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@LaForet, Certain automatic cars have snowflake settings (e.g. my Father's Mk 2 and 3 Cavaliers certainly did) which reduces the torque to the driving wheels, supposedly making it easier to pull away.
In heavy deep snow the best for our Nissan is traction control off (so power actually gets to any slipping wheels) and 4WD engaged.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Does snowflake setting mean its a relatively young car that gets upset easily?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| wills_h wrote: |
| Does snowflake setting mean its a relatively young car that gets upset easily? |
My BMW «snowflake» car-with-wobbly-lines button turns all self-restraint off making the car at first wildly overconfident and then it gets out of control ending up totally wrecked. So yes.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Can you just run through that bmw squiggly lines button again. I'm running winters all round on a 5 series. Do I need to press a button if it snows? I've never been a great one for manuals and instruction booklets ...
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You know it makes sense.
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@cameronphillips2000, I don't know if your 5 series has xDrive, which may alter things, but the mode on my X3 (based on the 5 series) seems to have three settings: Dynamic Stability Control, Dynamic Traction Control, or off. DSC is the default, but DTC is suggested for use on snow covered roads or with snow chains. In DTC mode, the word TRACTION should appear somewhere on the display.
I think it probably is worth reading the manual - as it cautions that in DTC mode some aspects of DSC are switched off.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@cameronphillips200 : Hi there, just drove over the Jura mountains today
https://imgur.com/gallery/U4Vslij
and was using my RWD M235i traction control as follows. When we hit the snow/slush, I pressed the car-with-wiggly-lines button for a couple of seconds, and TRACTION appeared on the instrument display. This put the car into a mode where if it detects one of the wheels starting to spin too much, it brakes that individual wheel. This is great on slush, snow, sand and gravel. But not what you want on normal road surface, even if it's wet. In my Owner's Manual it says along the lines of 'this is not menat for dynamic driving' i.e. you'll still be being very careful because of conditions.
Once we were back onto tarmac, I pressed the car-with-wiggly-lines button for a couple of seconds, and TRACTION disappeared. This takes the traction control back to 'normal'.
This was the same with my previous 3 Series xDrive.
But as mentioned, i'd recommend always reading your Owners Manual, however tedious, just on case.
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Poster: A snowHead
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A good set of (real) all season tyres would be way closer to the snows. A 4wd with good all seasons will beat a 2wd at anything except breaking. In slushy conditions a good all season tyre is hardly any different to a snow tire.
Low profile tyres/wheel combo are rubbish for anything but smooth tarmac. To this I have on numerous occasions when I only had a 2wd and all seasons towed 4wd cars with low profile expensive winter tyres up driveways and out of snowbanks.
I a very low (ground) temp environment (like the test track shown) there is a marked advantage to snow tyres.
On my current vehicle I have M+S rated all seasons in summer and some of the chunkiest non studded snow tyres. I also carry chains 6 months of the year. I find other vehicles much scarier than any road in front of me. I have replaced my bull bars twice in the last 4 years due to being hit whist stationary, on one occasion reversing away from the idiot who was sliding through a stop sign.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just a note on traction control. About 20 years ago had a hire car that had been (free) upgraded to a Renault Vel Satis which was full of bells and whistles which we didn't have on our car at home. One of these was traction control. We were trying to get out of Flaine at the end of a very snowy day and kept getting stuck - as soon as the wheels started slipping the TC kicked in effectively immobilising the car. We hadn't been given chains by the hire co as they said it wouldn't be necessary and it took about 30 mins to work out how to turn the damn thing off (there was no manual with the car). After that it was fine. Not sure if the tech has become more complex than it was then.
Incidentally it also took us about the same length of time to work out how to open the boot. The large Renault badge was hinged to become the release catch !
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| dsoutar wrote: |
Just a note on traction control. About 20 years ago had a hire car that had been (free) upgraded to a Renault Vel Satis which was full of bells and whistles which we didn't have on our car at home. One of these was traction control. We were trying to get out of Flaine at the end of a very snowy day and kept getting stuck - as soon as the wheels started slipping the TC kicked in effectively immobilising the car. We hadn't been given chains by the hire co as they said it wouldn't be necessary and it took about 30 mins to work out how to turn the damn thing off (there was no manual with the car). After that it was fine. Not sure if the tech has become more complex than it was then.
Incidentally it also took us about the same length of time to work out how to open the boot. The large Renault badge was hinged to become the release catch ! |
At work (Airport transfers) we had a Espace of similar vintage with the same issues. Compounded by electric handbrake and no override on traction control. Got stuck on wet grass. Only way to move was jack up one front wheel, rotate a bit and confuse the system into thinking we'd moved!
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Most appreciative for this rhetorical question more than beyond embarrassingly answered. The "invincible 4WD/AWD" crowd who righteously hold it's the drive system, not the tires should be made to view this industrial sized spoon of castor oil video reality check. Any tow truck driver will tell ya the biggest victims of slide offs, crashes and the like are always 4WD/AWD drivers on, that's right......., "All-Season" - "Summer" tires. See these Einstein's all the time - the ubiquitous Subaru, Audi and mixed et ex Americana SUV and truck scattered about like bowling pins whenever there's a front that passes through and we might have to hop into our full snow tire mit stifte hooptie to go into town to pick up more ammo and beer.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I was wondering what the ultimate vehicle/tyre setup would be for alpine/snow driving. I think we can all agree that it would include really good winter tyres with/without studs. Maybe snow chains as a backup too. But what about the vehicle itself. 4WD has to be better than 2WD but you probably want to keep the weight down, so maybe a Yeti rather than a Discovery? But then you would definitely want Hill Descent Control and it would probably be a good idea to have some of the electrickery that Land Rover incorporates. Maybe a Subaru, but does that have the ground clearance needed?
Thoughts?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@foxtrotzulu, yes, tyres being equal, 4WD is definitely better than 2WD.
Regarding studs vs no studs, I have recent experience from switching from studded to studless and I have been very happy, as has the wife. Our home town has recently been blessed with more snow than usual and the new tyres have worked like a charm. Mind you, in these snowy conditions the studs don't make that much of a difference. Their benefit is more noticable in icy conditions or on hard-packed snow. Still, we've had those conditions too recently and I've had no reason to complain. To be fair, I have to mention that we switched cars at the same time and the new one comes with traction control, for what it's worth.
All in all, considering the noise and extra pollution from the studded tyres, I'm very happy with studless. And since you mentioned alpine driving, bear in mind that some alpine countries forbid or restrict the use of studded tyres.
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Studded tyres are pretty much a no-no anywhere.
Our Nissan Murano (probably no longer available so e.g. X-trail maybe an alternative) has plastic bodywork in many places so is quite light, reasonably good AWD and on good winter tyres has only once lost uphill traction. Downhill a bit different.
Hill descent control and other malarkey completely unnecessary.
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We started using studded on our FWD Punto in France 7 years ago.
Since then we have not put chains on it once, and only needed socks twice.
Compared with the first 7 years living here when we used stud-less, and putting chains on was a regular occurrence.
We live at 1250m and our road is a steepish incline, which is snow covered from Dec - March.
For us, studded are definitely the way ahead with the FWD.
One of the 4x4 ( Landy 110) has M&S, but no clever trickery as its a 1987 model and pre dates all that safety stuff.
The other 4x4 (Duster) has Nexxen winters and ABS but no other fancy stuff.
Neither of these has ever needed chains.
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FAQ
if it did not tip doe style 
