Driving - France compared to Austria??

A snowHead

Hi - would like to know how driving to Austria compares to driving to France please?

We drive regularly to 3V, Paradiski etc. Usually do the drive in one day from Calais, normally taking around 9 hours (travel low season) and have a toll pass.
Want to head off somewhere in a couple of weeks - rather tempted by currently better snow conditions in Austria compared to France, and a change of scenery would be nice!

I know the drive would be a little longer. Any advice would be greatly received with thanks!

A snowHead

@Dippy, where are you traveling from?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Snow tyres mandatory, I understand.

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It's a bit further, but cheaper as no tolls through Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany. If conditions are good (and car is suitable) you can get a move on through Germany. Winter tyres are a legal requirement. We have done it lots of times with no hassles, and only at half term did we encounter heavy traffic.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

We live in Kent, so will take tunnel to Calais.
Will be driving in a Range Rover - no idea if it currently has winter tyres or not (I'm blonde and female wink

!
I know we have never changed tyres when driving in France - never had a problem in last 22 years?

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France doesn't require winter tyres. Austria does.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

About 10 hours driving time from Calais to Salzburgland on a good journey.

After all it is free

But that is about to change soon

Hells-Bells - do you mean the rule re tyres in France?

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Don't forget you'll need a vignette to drive on Austrian highways, can usually pick up a 10 day one to stick in yer windscreen before you reach the border when going through Germany.

I tend to drive to Austria most years and although I've been pretty lucky with weather, I've always found some kind of big traffic hold up somewhere along the way. I tend to drive through the night and avoid certain places at certain times of day. I'll try and list them, but these aren't on the same route.. sometimes I'll go via Belgium > Luxembourg > Germany, or Belgium > Germany > Austria, it's possible to go via Switzerland, but you'll have to pay a full years vignette which equates to about £35.. worth looking into if you're likely to go multiple times?

* Brussels, pretty much any time in daylight, can be a disaster and can lose a LOT of time.
* Lille, around rush hour (do your homework here too, roadsigns can be confusing, easy to take a wrong turn)
* Anywhere in the Karlsruhe/Stuttgart/Heilbronn area near a weekend/ rush hour.. best to hit this at night if possible (check Stuttgart football fixtures too), if you take this route it'll put you onto the A7 which is an awesome autobahn, you can chew up some serious miles here, opportunities to buy Austrian vignettes aplenty too, but, watch what time you hit......
* Reutte & the Fernpass, I find this the best way into Austria, especially if you're heading for the Otztal (Solden, Obergurgl etc.), you'll definately need a vignette for this road (some say it's possible to drive in Austria without one) even though it's a single carriageway road for the most part, check whether it's open too, the Austrian gov website is very good here, don't go anywhere near this road at the weekend though!!

I've only ever tried it once going via Munich and Kufstein, and I was lucky, but I've heard horror stories of hold ups there in the past. Also, the A8 autobahn between Stuttgart and Munich is notorious for hold ups.

My favourite route is Calais > Brussels > Leuven > Aachen > Koblenz (A61) > join A6 @ Hockenheim > A5 towards Karsruhe > A8 towards Stuttgart (expect hold up after Pforzheim, even in the middle of the night, unavoidable) > cut through Ulm on B10/B28 onto A7 south all the way to Reutte and over the Fernpass. I usually get a late crossing and start at about midnight on a weekday from Calais, 5 hours will get you well into Germany, I crash in the car for a few hours, then crack on..

On a side note, if you're heading for the Zillertal, try and avoid that on a Friday evening/ weekend, there's only really one way in and out of the valley, and it gets chocked up quite quickly..

Hope that helps!

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Yes - very helpfull - thank you very much!
We would only travel outside of the school hols / busy times.
Would not drive thru the night so would either have a very early start (as we usually do when driving to France) or do an overnight stop.

snow reports

We have done this every February for the last 5 years.
The only major holdups are on this side of the Channel and the Munich ring road. Last year we took the route via Nuremberg and then cut across country to miss out Munich. It’s slightly longer in mileage, but similar time wise as it’s less fiddly than the Luxembourg route.
That’s only worth considering if your heading to Salzburgerland or eastern end of the Tirol.
A couple of huge plusses compared to driving in France, no peages to hold you up, and the driving once you’re in the mountains is much easier as most resorts are in the valleys.

Few comments

10 hours Calais to Salzburgerland is very optimistic especially in winter. 10 hours Calais to Munich in Summer is about par for the course. Years ago when I had a fast car I did Munich to London door to door in 10 hours but that was when the tunnel was a lot less faff, it was a dry quiet Sunday and I was doing well over 200 km/h on the Autobahn.

Personally I would go via Luxembourg (cheap petrol too, dont use one of the official service stations, the queues can be silly, there are places just off the motorway eg at Schengen), then Stuttgart and depending on your destination either via Bregenz, or via Munich / Kuftstein or Munich / Salzburg. I would not recommend the Fern pass road, it only gets snowbound rarely (eg this week) but it is single carriage way from Füssen to the Inntal and there can be huge queues, maybe OK on a quiet traffic day.

The A8 can be prone to queues, Stuttgart (weekdays), Munich to Rosenheim (peak weekends, avoid if possible, 35km queues of very slow moving traffic are not untypical) but if you avoid the peak times it is a good road. The Munich ring road - A99 currently has road works (about 2km from my flat) and there can be big queues as a result. Ideally arrive Sunday morning, leave Saturday afternoon.

Buy a vignette for the Austrian motorways (unless things have changed recently not needed on Fern pass road), it costs about €10 for 10 days, not worth risking a fine, the Police will want cash on the spot and will take you to a cashpoint if you dont have enough on you. Stick to the speed limits, the Austrians are keen on speed cameras not just on the motorways.

No tolls currently in Belgium, Luxembourg & Germany (though that will change soon)

Get winter tyres.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@munich_irish, agree in every respect

A snowHead

A snowHead

I used to live near Frankfurt. I would say that from Calais, you are looking at 13-14 hours to most Austrian ski resorts.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I did Rotterdam to Salzburgerland last year and it took me nearly 14 hours from leaving the ferry. All went well until I hit traffic problems not far from the Austrian border.

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12 hours on a good run but 14 more like it

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

For me, an hour and a half from Calais to Ghent, for a night's sleep.
11 hours to Waidring, so in total 12 and a half (Saturday at half term, arriving 6pm ish).

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@Alastair Pink, The CSU (Bavarian Tories) came up with an election wheeze a few years back, they claimed that Bavarians were getting a bad deal as they had to pay road tolls in the surrounding countries but others got to use Bavarian Autobahns for free. The plan was that non German residents would have to pay a road toll (suggesting that Germans should pay to use their own roads would have hardly been a vote winning idea). That got ruled out by Brussels. Next plan was that everyone pays but German motorists got a tax refund equal to the toll. Unsurprisingly that got ruled out too. After a lot more wrangling they have come up with a plan that keeps Brussels happy and sort of keeps to the "make foreigners pay for our roads" election promise. Basically there will be a vignette system, I think from 2020 though there are potential court cases, it could run for a while yet. If you are a German taxpayer you will get some sort of increased tax allowance.

See https://www.thelocal.de/20170324/what-the-new-german-autobahn-toll-will-mean-for-you

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After all it is free

there are already tolls for trucks (over 7.5t I think?). they're the gantries that make brits stamp on the brakes thinking they're speed cameras.

I reckon on about 6-6.5hours to get from Calais to Frankfurt, and about the same Frankfurt-Tirol, plus stops. But then I live in Frankfurt (well close enough), so never do the whole run in one go. Nor do I ever go the Luxembourg way, cos it's not the most direct route for me.

Brussels often gets slated on here. Again, I did it in 12 minutes from E40 round the ring back on to E40. Lunchtime on a working day both ways. My record worst time was 20mins or so when there was a jam coming off the E40 on to the Ring cos half the lanes were blocked off while a crane lifted an upside down car that had made it past the barriers in to a bridge support.

I'd avoid Munich area on a Saturday day time (and also a Sunday evening on the way home). A8 is probably where I see most hold ups. Although the roadworks (if any - not been that way yet this year) can be depressing. In general those are fine and tend to flow at the 80kmh limit... it's just that sometimes they go on for 30km at a time! But there are so many route options, it's hard to recommend one without knowing which resort is the destination, and what time leaving Calais.

Everyone seems to have missed the biggest difference: You have to pay for the toilets in German service stations! 70¢, but you get a voucher back for 50¢ to use in the service station.

Traffic south of Munich can be very bad at rush hour and at weekends. In general the autobahns are busier than the French motorways.

There are often queues at the border going back in to Germany from Austria.

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Costs 70¢ for a pee in Belgium too now (but also with 50¢ voucher to spend on more coffee).
At least the German vouchers are valid for a year, and you can use more than one per purchase. Belgium are valid for 2 months, and only one voucher per purchase in the shop/cafe.
Least the bogs are infinitely cleaner than a British Moto etc.

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@Frosty the Snowman, An average of 53mph, I thought your trucks were limited to 50mph Toofy Grin

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@QRZBuddha, they are an excellent tyre and very pleased with mine. Just thought worth clarifying as tyres can be very touchy subject here wink

A snowHead

With loo and eating stops i'm in the 12-14 Hours group. Used to live in Belgium and don't ever recall getting less than 10 hours (from Mons) to Ski Amade in the ski season.

A snowHead

Re the tyres, yes, certified winters carry the 'mountain and snowflake' symbol and Michelin Cross-climates are thus certifed, but they are summer tyres that arguably only just qualify as such. We have them on our 2nd. 'runaround' car and they're great but opt for 'proper' winters on the main car we take to the Alps. Be careful if you talk to some independent tyre retailers: some of them seem to be on an incentive to promote cross-climates and don't appreciate the legal implications if they aren't also certified winters. And they often seem to think that for some reason, winters aren't as good a cross-climates in warmer weather, which isn't true -you won't be using your winters in the summer, so it doesn't apply. I suggest you ask your dealer for certified winter setup as a starting-point, then use that spec' to take a look at independent alternatives for comparison. It's only a personal opinion, but while the argument is strong for all-seasons rather than separate winters and summers for a UK-only car, for me, taking it to the Alps is what swings it in favour of getting 'proper' winters.

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You can also avoid the need for a vignette by leaving the A8 at Siegsdorf (in Germany) and heading to Saalfelden via Inzell and Lofer.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Or turning off before the border at Kufstein and using the A171 then A173 for Skiwelt and Kitzbuhel. It only adds a few minutes as you'd only be on the motorway for one junction anyway.

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@Drammeister, It used to be no vignette until Kufstein Süd but that has changed and you have to have a vignette from the border. You can come off at Kiefersfelden (last exit in Germany also shared by the services at the border) however do note that Kufstein council does not like all the holiday traffic passing through the town. They have installed a traffic light with a camera just before entering the town on the road from Kiefersfelden. It only operates from 08:00 to 16:00 on a Saturday in winter but it means (very) long queues unless you are through before 08:00.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Yeah, I said before the border. I tend to be after 16:00 anyway.

After all it is free

I am considering getting into Austria via the Arlberg Tunnel ..it cost a bit but saves that traffic jam round Munich or the Fern pass ...2 hours in that last year....any thoughts

@DaveD, Depends where you are going and when. There tends to be a long tailback at Bludenz where the road goes from dual to single carriageway (mainly Swiss and Dutch). The used to be very long queues for the Pfänder tunnel at Bregenz, though there is now a second bore so that might have fixed that (not been through in winter since it opened). There is also a speed restriction of 100km/h between Innsbruck and Kufstein.

The best way to beat the queues is to avoid Munich on a Saturday in either the winter or summer peak holiday weekends..

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Driving - France compared to Austria??

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