 Poster: A snowHead
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Boot sole length
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I may have this wrong but having a problem with off piste could be something to do with the hassle of skiing off piste in Europe. Probes, transponders, guides etc could seen as a not needed faff and cost when you’re just venturing into going off the groomers.
It’s easy to get to love if you’ve experienced skiing in North America. The convenience of the whole hill being avalanche controlled means it’s easy to dip your toe in the water. It quickly becomes both second nature and enjoyable.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 27-11-18 21:57; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| sbooker wrote: |
I may have this wrong but having a problem with off piste could be something to do with the hassle of skiing off piste in Europe. Probes, transponders, guides etc could seen as not needed gaff and cost when you’re just venturing into going off the groomers.
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I suspect it is a big factor. The lack of avi controlled off-piste makes it somewhat difficult to get the initial exposure. Bit of a chicken and egg issue.
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Yeah I think that's a very fair point. In Europe you're expected to figure it all out for yourself, or pay good money for expert advice. There are countless places which are utterly safe to get started, gear or no gear - but how can you know which ones they are, without guidance? To do it on the cheap (i.e. without needing neither guide nor gear) you need to make some experienced, knowledgeable and patient friends.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yes, I think that is the answer for most people. I learned to ski powder in Europe, but not off piste as I ride alone and didn't want to die. Once I discovered North America the whole concept evaporated to the extent that someone saying they only like skiing on the trails is very hard to really comprehend. If you think of somewhere like Snowbird or Taos, if you insist on confining yourself to the piste, well it's not sensible and the people who think that way will wonder why those places are so popular.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Since I learned to ski in North America, I was initially surprised there's such a distinction of piste vs off-piste!
In NA, a piste is just another route down the mountain that happened to be flatten by the piste basher. People don't always seek that out, much less confined themselves to only those type of routes. For NA skiers, there're many kind of "pistes", trees, bumps, bashed, half bashed/half bumps...
While I don't think NA skiers are "better" skiers than Europeans. They're certainly more versatile.
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| abc wrote: |
Since I learned to ski in North America, I was initially surprised there's such a distinction of piste vs off-piste!
In NA, a piste is just another route down the mountain that happened to be flatten by the piste basher. People don't always seek that out, much less confined themselves to only those type of routes. For NA skiers, there're many kind of "pistes", trees, bumps, bashed, half bashed/half bumps...
While I don't think NA skiers are "better" skiers than Europeans. They're certainly more versatile. |
This is interesting. I am a Brit, and my wife is American. She's done 50 days a year skiing since she first got on the mountain at the age of 4, as her parents are fanatics.
Her eldest brother is incredible off-piste, and finds piste skiing dull; he ski mountaineers in the way that some of us go touring. Her middle brother is a racer and can do without the variability of off-piste snow. My wife is an ex-bumps competitor, and prefers a steep, big mogul run and the piste, disliking anything with deeply variable snow and an unknown route. Her youngest brother is is a freestyle expert and thinks that anything where he is not backwards or upside down to be pointless.
All of them were brought up by the same parents, in the same way, in the same mountains.
You like what you like, and enjoy what you enjoy. The joy of skiing is that you can find what you enjoy, and keep doing it - and if you want to, you can find something else. I like all of it (except the park stuff that resulted in three knee operations two years ago - I used to love being airborne, but now I am scared of that state), but I am not a specialist in the way that my wife and my in-laws are.
When you do 50 days a year for 30 years, you can easily pick what you want to do, and specialise. For most of us, we take what the mountains give us on those 3 weeks a year.
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Here's your starter for 10
San Martino di Castrozza
An abundance of ungroomed pistes and off-piste terrain which is lift accessed, non-glaciated, and avalanche safe.
There are literally hundreds of other resorts across Europe which offer the same experience.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
European powda sucks.
It is wet, heavy, thin, choppy, and crusty.
Too near the warm Med sea.
Too many tourists and bums.
Take an airplane to Japan or Utah.
The offpiste is far deeper, lighter, and fluffier.
You will be a pow hero in no time. |
If you can Ski Arlberg POW you can Ski anything !!
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@Harry Flashman, you got it in a nutshell - You like what you like, and enjoy what you enjoy. The joy of skiing is that you can find what you enjoy, and keep doing it - and if you want to, you can find something else.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Cheesie168 wrote: |
| @Harry Flashman, you got it in a nutshell -
You like what you like, and enjoy what you enjoy. The joy of skiing is that you can find what you enjoy, and keep doing it - and if you want to, you can find something else. |
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Flashman is right. He has stopped me contributing except for this!
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
Here's your starter for 10
San Martino di Castrozza
An abundance of ungroomed pistes and off-piste terrain which is lift accessed, non-glaciated, and avalanche safe.
There are literally hundreds of other resorts across Europe which offer the same experience. |
Thanks for that.
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You know it makes sense.
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The contribution from @Harry Flashman is thought-provoking. He speaks of people performing at very high levels, who are really one-track minded. This happens in all sorts of fields - certainly in sailing. Many people who race high-performance boats would simply not bother to go out pottering in a little slow boat on a quiet day which presents no technical challenges. Others, including some high performers (but generally not the young ones!), just like being out on the water. If you are someone who just enjoys being on the snow in the mountains, stopping for a convivial lunch or drink, not needing to feel "challenged", content to ski with less capable friends sometimes, whether on or off piste, then you are likely to have more good days out than someone who has more exacting criteria of what makes a day worth while.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Great point Pam, and while it is fun to push our limits, the point is to enjoy what it is you are doing. I have seen far too many sulking at the end of the day because they were pushed to do stuff they didn't enjoy and it ruined their day.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| The contribution from @Harry Flashman is thought-provoking. He speaks of people performing at very high levels, who are really one-track minded. This happens in all sorts of fields - certainly in sailing. Many people who race high-performance boats would simply not bother to go out pottering in a little slow boat on a quiet day which presents no technical challenges. Others, including some high performers (but generally not the young ones!), just like being out on the water. If you are someone who just enjoys being on the snow in the mountains, stopping for a convivial lunch or drink, not needing to feel "challenged", content to ski with less capable friends sometimes, whether on or off piste, then you are likely to have more good days out than someone who has more exacting criteria of what makes a day worth while. |
Bang on, Pam.
I used to be a huge powder hound, and wasted some lovely sunny days not skiing, due to icy/slushy pistes and lack of fresh snow (still had fun though - lots of looooong lunches). I'd sneer a bit, stating that if it wasn't at least boot-deep, it was all pointless as the pistes would be crowded and pointless on such nice days. And right there is the arrogance of the newly-minted 'advanced' skiier living in resort.
What a waste. I bought some FIS slalom skis, and learned how to use them properly, and I got myself properly into bumps skiing (taught by Lady F, which was really good fun) that I had always neglected as being a bit of a bore (I love moguls, these days, although my fitness needs to up its game!). Piste days now give my as much joy as the big pow ones.
The piste is going to give you good skiing more of the time than the backcountry. No shame in preferring it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Harry Flashman wrote: |
What a waste. I bought some FIS slalom skis, and learned how to use them properly, and I got myself properly into bumps skiing (taught by Lady F, which was really good fun) that I had always neglected as being a bit of a bore (I love moguls, these days, although my fitness needs to up its game!). Piste days now give my as much joy as the big pow ones.
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Yup the curse of the seasonnaire. The real progress people get to make when skiing for a sustained period over a winter is not the skiing on perfect powder days or the empty magnificant groomer hoons but the getting out and getting it done when its crappy. If you don't make skiing your number one job you miss a bunch of stuff for hangovers, lie ins and netflix which you can do when you're dead.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| stanton wrote: |
| Whitegold wrote: |
European powda sucks.
It is wet, heavy, thin, choppy, and crusty.
Too near the warm Med sea.
Too many tourists and bums.
Take an airplane to Japan or Utah.
The offpiste is far deeper, lighter, and fluffier.
You will be a pow hero in no time. |
If you can Ski Arlberg POW you can Ski anything !! |
On this post (as an aside) I respectfully disagree. My in-laws' home mountain is Park City/Canyons, Utah. And yes, I have had the champagne powder experience (turn right off 99 Ninety lift, duck under the rope, hike a short while, and meet skiing heaven - watch the cornice: take the time to indulge in some exaggerated Gnar-style pole-whacking).
I will admit that Japan is something a bit special, but I think that's just sheer amount of the white stuff, than any intrinsic quality. Only time I have ever used my pair of DPS "Spoon" skis in anger, and probably the only place they ever made sense.
I have had days just as good in Avoriaz, the 3 valleys, Verbier and Ishgl. Every bit as good.
Sorry, I digress.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Harry Flashman wrote: |
What a waste. I bought some FIS slalom skis, and learned how to use them properly, and I got myself properly into bumps skiing (taught by Lady F, which was really good fun) that I had always neglected as being a bit of a bore (I love moguls, these days, although my fitness needs to up its game!). Piste days now give my as much joy as the big pow ones.
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Yup the curse of the seasonnaire. The real progress people get to make when skiing for a sustained period over a winter is not the skiing on perfect powder days or the empty magnificant groomer hoons but the getting out and getting it done when its crappy. If you don't make skiing your number one job you miss a bunch of stuff for hangovers, lie ins and netflix which you can do when you're dead. |
We're going back out again this season. I'm going to pick up my snowboard more in the mornings, and try to become competent on it. I'd love to add a whole new dimension to my mountain experience.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
When you do 50 days a year for 30 years, you can easily pick what you want to do, and specialise. For most of us, we take what the mountains give us on those 3 weeks a year
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But I bet those specialist relatives of yours can get down just about anything in ease and in style, even if it's not their "specialty".
The OP said he does 20-25 days/year. That is quite a lot of days. He shouldn't be falling over in deep snow more than once or twice.
There's saying that goes like this "it's not that you don't know how to ski mogul. It's that you don't know how to ski, and the mogul proves it". Replace "mogul" with just about every kind of un-bashed surfaces, the statement still hold true.
It's not necessary to "like" off-piste of any kind. It's just that off-piste is a good mirror to look at one's own skiing in. For most of us holiday skiers, it's not even necessary to be good at skiing, as long as we enjoy it. But I think the OP is in no position to say he likes or dislikes off-piste skiing since he never gave it a fair chance with proper tuition (and/or equipment). Just like people who never ski (or only "tried" one day) are in no position to say they don't "like" skiing.
The more accurate statement should be "I don't have the time or motivation to bother". And/or "I couldn't care less how much others like it".
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@pam w, well said, I love just being there. This all started as I was getting fed up of people saying I should try off piste. I may still get some ex rental fat skis to try, what's the harm, if I still don't get enjoyment out of it they can sit in cave and someone will use them.
Most importantly all I want to do is ski with who ever I am out with.
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@Pyremaniac, Spot. On. (Hope you're well by the way. I'm sad not to be going to Baqueira this season - the BB and preBB won this time.)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| @Pyremaniac, Spot. On. (Hope you're well by the way. I'm sad not to be going to Baqueira this season - the BB and preBB won this time.) |
Hi! Oh that's a pity - but I'm not doing a Baquiera season this year either. I've got more of a Pyrenean safari thing going on. Do let me know if you get a sudden chance to drop by though; looks like it might be yet another great winter down here. The large majority of ski areas open this weekend 
Have a fantastic time at the bashes!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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^ who said anything about never having tried any? 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Haha OK, to be fair, now that I re-read your post that is in fact pretty much exactly what you said  . I kind of processed it as "only tried a little"...
...because it's a pretty silly position to claim that people say they don't like something when they haven't even tried it once (at least in the context of sport). Does anyone really say that? Certainly the OP didn't.
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@Pyremaniac, thanks and I hope you have an excellent season too. 
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You know it makes sense.
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@Pyremaniac, "off piste" is a catch all term for ALL snow condition except the bashed surface. Not all of the off piste are pleasant to ski, even for the hard core off piste lover. Refrozen crud and breakable crust are really hard to "like" by the vast majority of off-piste skiers! So when someone said he doesn't "like" off-piste, it's entirely possible he haven't got good enough luck to hit good snow on average. .
I re-read the OP's post. You're right, he's tried more than just once. But I read it as he had so far failed to get a good hang of it to enjoy it. So he's looking for confirmation to just accept his limitation. But given he's "100% self-taught" and are on rather narrow skis, it's my opinion he hasn't given off-piste skiing a fair chance to come to a conclusion of like or dislike.
Had the OP skis only 1 or 2 weeks a year, it would be debatable whether he would be better off just staying on piste only. But since he actually skis fair amount, it'd be a shame he miss out on the fun part of off-piste skiing without giving it a "proper" try.
I realize some of my earlier post were harsh and may come across as condescending. It wasn't my intent.
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FAQ
