 Poster: A snowHead
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@holidayloverxx, thanks - a few other people have messaged me to say the same. I wonder why so many people have taken the opportunity to misconstrue it beyond it's original context and judge my ability as a boyfriend and hers as an independent woman; from an extremely limited amount of information.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Someone said earlier about UCPA. I learnt to ski at UCPA la plagne 10 years ago with my (now) husband who could already ski. We paid for an ensuite room for ourselves. You don't need to slum it and food, equipment and lessons are great standard. La plagne location was unbeatable, ski in ski out on a green run bang in the middle of plagne centre
3 hours lessons in the morning (beginner for me never skied before) off piste for husband. V sociable in ucpa, all different ages and nationalities. I skied with my classmates most afternoons although husband came a couple of times. End of the week i skied a red with him and now i live in a ski resort running a ski chalet for the last 7 years! So would highly recommend UCPA as a great start to skiing!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Whoops just saw you dont think ucpa will be nice enough for the holiday element but the la plagne one is pretty nice. Good luck anyway, bet she loves it!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Club med is quite good for good skiers who like off piste as in the top group all they do is just off piste guiding all day no real lessons that is 3 hours in morning & an hour lunch then 2 1/2 hours in afternoon , you can just do one session morning or afternoon . For beginners though probably you would be relying on getting a good instructor from ESF , but same applies morning & afternoon lessons & you can switch groups if the coach agrees . Cant say what the quality of Beginners lessons was like but it seems to depend as always on getting a good instructor where as in the higher level groups you are not so dependant on the instructor .
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@julietp, yeah as much as UCPA isn't 'off the menu' (as the price certainly fits well), I do think that to me it's 'SKI holiday" but to her it may be more of a 'ski HOLIDAY'!!! So whilst UCPA represents a great option to me, she might be looking for a little bit more of a cosy chalet and log fire kind of arrangement... We'll see. It's nice that UCPA do non-tuition options, and also some advanced / off-piste courses, so I think if she's willing to do the UCPA style of accommodation it makes a lot of sense in every other respect.
@snowxxx, I have looked up Club Med and it appeals in a lot of senses. But it's quite pricey, like-for-like for the same week in VT, for example, Club Med is a full thousand pounds dearer than UCPA for the two of us, and more or less £1500 dearer than the last MYAsHBash was. (Sans flights it's approx £1500/person/week for Club Med, £1000 for UCPA, and MYAsHBash came in closer to £700!)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Grizzler wrote: |
| @Awdbugga, that's useful to know. Can't see it on their website (in fact no courses at all except group high level or gates ones). Also says they start at 9am, which is no good for me travelling. If you know or find out any more (performance, or at least not quite beginner level) could you pm me? Cheers. |
Have PM'd you.
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| dp wrote: |
| I wonder why so many people have taken the opportunity to misconstrue it beyond it's original context and judge my ability as a boyfriend |
Because you said, in your opening post
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| she's decided that she wants to come skiing |
and
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| what is the best way to facilitate this without having too detrimental an effect on my own ski trips |
Synonyms for "detrimental" ?
harmful, damaging, injurious, hurtful, inimical, deleterious, dangerous, destructive, ruinous, calamitous, disastrous, pernicious, environmentally unfriendly, ill, bad, evil, baleful, malign, corrupting, malignant, adverse, undesirable, prejudicial, unfavourable, unfortunate, counterproductive
That's why! You may not have meant it but you make it sound all about you and your own enjoyment. Like you don't mind her coming provided she doesn't get in the way of you doing your own thing. You know, like the, "I can't wait to take my kids skiing. Can someone recommend somewhere where someone will pick them up for ski school, give them lunch, bit more ski school, back to the chalet then supervised play until I get back" people. Don't forget it's no longer "my own ski trips". It's now "our ski trips"!
(Last post on this. Just trying to help  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@maggi, I'm not being funny but you've completely flawed your own point.
In no way whatsoever does stating that I don't want my OH's presence to be detrimental to my own trip... in any, possible, conceivable manner; indicate that either (a) I am not good boyfriend or (b) I want to pack her off onto her own activities so that I can go and do my own thing.
Because, if nothing else... I'd like to think anyway, that skiing with my other half and watching her develop will be an enjoyable experience...
AND IF ITS ENJOYABLE IT'S NOT TO MY DETRIMENT IS IT???
I think that actually if anything, going on a trip with my girlfriend and not having the opportunity to ski with her would be of detriment to the trip. If all I'd wanted was to put her in a creche and go skiing I'd have said so. People have taken it upon themselves to reach this conclusion, and upon themselves only (evident by the fact that plenty of other posters have not come to this conclusion).
I'm sorry if I sound crappy on this and it's nothing personal, but I'm just a little disappointed that I asked for advice on where to go skiing and a lot of people have decided to misconstrue what I said in order to attack my personality and character. In fact some people seem to be so keen to criticise that they've missed the point entirely in favour of taking a shot. And I'm not really sure why.
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@dp,
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And I'm not really sure why.
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Because this is snowHeads! If people see an opportunity for giving gratuitous advice and for answering a question that wasn't actually asked, they will. That's just the way it is, it's not usually malicious.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| dp wrote: |
| @Mike Pow, with no disrespect meant, I disagree with you. |
None taken.
Read your OP and provided answers to your specific requests and also an alternative way of looking at it.
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I understand the hypothesis completely that solo lessons can be more productive. It's obvious. The instructor has far more time for "each" person in a private lesson. And yes this means that they can potentially advance faster, covering more ground in the same time. What I am not certain about is that the factor by which they improve equals or exceeds the factor by which the price increases. In fact, I highly doubt it.
What's more, and something I've been trying to get across this whole thread, is not everyone in the world needs to be a ski legend in order to enjoy skiing. Not progressing at the fastest possible speed doesn't have to be unattractive. I appreciate that if we spent £3000 on solo ski lessons this winter we could probably go skiing next winter and spend £0 on lessons, but I also think that if we spent £500 a year on group lessons for 6 years running, she could be an equally good skier at no greater expense. |
It's not a competition to see who gets better faster, it's a way to maximise your OH's enjoyment and progression suited to her specific needs.
There may not be a year 2, let alone a year 6
Learned the hard way 
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For solo lessons, prices I've seen advertised range from 60-90 Euros an hour. Even if we're at the bottom end of that scale, then the two half days you talk of are still going to cost us 500-600 Euros. So even if they were the only lessons we had all week, and we spent the rest of it skiing together, I could probably get her in a whole week of group lessons for nothing much extra.
In my opinion, learning a skill is made up instruction and practice. And in my personal experience, the practice often plays a more important part than the instruction. I think the thing about a group lesson is that you're learning and practicing. And spending time with others in the same boat as you - which is important. Sometimes you can be taught a skill til your instructor is blue in the face, but what it really needs is just a bit of time for you to do it until it makes sense.
Basically, I don't have a fixed budget but it definitely won't cover any sustained amount of private tuition. I am reasonably convinced that I would like to have her do group lessons in the mornings, then in the afternoon she can ski with her newfound friends or ski with me, or I can ski with all of them. Maybe there is scope for a 2 hour private lesson on a mid-week afternoon to catch any bugs, help her with anything not making sense, etc... but I'm also reasonably prepared to do that myself if she will tolerate it! But principally if I hadn't made it clear already, I was looking for suggestions on how she can be doing group lessons and skiing with the group, with some time for me to ski with her but also options for me to ski in company around her schedule too. |
This appears to be how you learned to ski and it worked for you. If your OH learns the same way then bingo.
I've made, and will hopefully continue to make, a living out of getting people - primarily women, primarily partners/wives to men who already ski at a high level - to 'give skiing one last shot' because their experiences up to that point have been awful.
The consistent themes have been
Unenjoyable and non-productive group lessons
Pushy partners
Have you settled on a resort?
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 25-07-18 9:43; edited 4 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Hurtle, +1
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@dp, are you in a position and the sort of people who are happy to earmark a week outside of peak season and just book late? For example, late Jan or mid March?
I ask because that’s one way to get a good deal in a suitable place with a decent chance of good snow conditions and weather.
If that approach worked for you, there are one or two options I could suggest. Personally I wouldn’t pay their up front prices but they usually have late availability with good discounts most weeks.
If you prefer pre booked Bash, I think PSB Tignes might be a bit daunting for a beginner. Val T in mid April less than ideal too (fairly busy easy pistes, sometimes slushfest) though better than Tignes.
I’ve lost track of MYAsh, when and where? I share your view about the limitations of Livigno for you.
The Dolomites in Feb better IMO, if you can nail the good tuition. Portavescovo is a good hotel and great value. 
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You know it makes sense.
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A couple of other thoughts, some of which echo others and one that *may* be controversial...
I probably wouldn't opt for private lessons for a beginner but would want a small group lesson (4-6), part of the fun of skiing is the social aspect and part of the fun of being a beginner is learning with others. Its not a race to get to a great standard IMO but a race to gain the most enjoyment out of being on mountain whilst being safe. Whilst you would most likely progress quicker in 121 lessons, I really don't think that it would be as much fun.
Also, potentially unfair given that I haven't been on a bash and also contrary to my first point - I'm not sure I would consider a bash, I can imagine that it would put tremendous pressure on a beginner to LOVE skiing, being surrounded by Snowheads. You obviously know your OH and how she would react in this situation, but for my OH, it would be an unnecessary pressure and probably wouldn't work; I made that mistake when I tried to introduce her to scuba diving.
I think the goal of a first ski trip is for someone to love being in the mountains and on the slopes, be safe and have as much fun as possible. Depending on the individual, this will really drive the resort and the approach to lessons. Most of us on here have been skiing for years or decades, its about playing the long game rather than racing to be the best IMO.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| dp wrote: |
| And I'm not really sure why. |
It's the Internet and the off season... not fair though and undeserved from your OP and subsequent posts.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
I've made, and will hopefully continue to make, a living out of getting people - primarily women, primarily partners/wives to men who already ski at a high level - to 'give skiing one last shot' because their experiences up to that point have been awful.
The consistent themes have been
Unenjoyable and non-productive group lessons
Pushy partners
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But it's a stretch to say the OP is in this situation at present. I tend to agree with the group lesson sentiment. I find 1 on 1 a bit too intense. Plus for a beginner there is no-one else to compare yourself to if you are struggling and for some people that can accelerate a negative feedback loop. Obviously group lessons need to have a good instructor too to be productive but who is to say a "follow me" instructor who give poor group lessons miraculously changes behaviour when giving a private.
Re the general judgemental stuff. I think there is a lot of projection of personal experiences etc there plus a little bit of standard patronising "little lady" guff. "Women - Know your place spas not gnar". Actually maybe I should start a T shirt line.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If buy that T.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| adithorp wrote: |
| If buy that T. |
You'd buy "SPA NOT GNAR" or "GNAR NOT SPA"?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, I'd buy GNAR NOT SPA!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
I've made, and will hopefully continue to make, a living out of getting people - primarily women, primarily partners/wives to men who already ski at a high level - to 'give skiing one last shot' because their experiences up to that point have been awful.
The consistent themes have been
Unenjoyable and non-productive group lessons
Pushy partners
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But it's a stretch to say the OP is in this situation at present. |
True. But with the global retention rate for 'never evers' well under 20% if all scenarios aren't at least considered then problems could arise.
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I tend to agree with the group lesson sentiment. I find 1 on 1 a bit too intense. Plus for a beginner there is no-one else to compare yourself to if you are struggling and for some people that can accelerate a negative feedback loop. Obviously group lessons need to have a good instructor too to be productive but who is to say a "follow me" instructor who give poor group lessons miraculously changes behaviour when giving a private.
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Skiing is a social sport not a team sport IMHO.
If you cast your mind back to when you learned to ride a bike, were there 3-7 other kids sitting on bikes beside you learning for the first time too?
How about when you learned to drive a car? One driving instructor ahead of a group of 'never evers' each unaccompanied in their own vehicle?
Three of the biggest challenges for a 'never ever' skier are BALANCE, STEERING and ACCELERATION.
An adult helping to balance and steer the bike and controlling acceleration in the initial stages of learning to cycle leads to safe and enjoyable skill acquisition and movement.
An adult controlling steering and acceleration in the initial stages of learning to drive leads to safe and enjoyable skill acquisition and movement.
The model of individuals learning to ski alongside other 'never evers' with one instructor doing his / her best to corral a group of similarly inexperienced but vastly different individuals - athtleticism, fitness, motivation - is set up to benefit the ski school first and foremost. The retention rates speak for themselves.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@dp, has to be said, your o.p. asked,
"what is the best way to facilitate this without having too detrimental an effect on my own ski trips?
What I would really like is a kind of trip where OH can ski in group lessons (or maybe - as is common - morning group lessons and afternoons with the fellow learners) and I can ski in some kind of company myself."
Which does somewhat imply that, "I want to pack her off onto her own activities so that I can go and do my own thing".
Anyhoo, my advice would be somewhere that has other things to do, has alpine charm (this includes the likes of Avoriaz which I find charming in a brutalist fashion) so taht in the event of the skiing not clicking, or indeed fitness perhaps getting in the way of all day skiing there are nice alternatives.
My list would include, Wengen/Mürren, Avoriaz (e.g. for aquaparc), Morzine, Chamonix in the right accommodation (so walking distance to e.g. Brevent lifts) (or lEs Houches), Courmayeur, Aosta (ski Pila), Megeve/Evasion MB.
I would be very surprised if there weren't group lessons available in the mornings in all locations (unless highest season).
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| The model of individuals learning to ski alongside other 'never evers' with one instructor doing his / her best to corral a group of similarly inexperienced but vastly different individuals - athtleticism, fitness, motivation - is set up to benefit the ski school first and foremost. The retention rates speak for themselves. |
Other than one group of kids last winter I haven't taught never-evers in over a decade, so have limited experience from which to draw on. However, my broader experience is that the limiting factor in a skier making changes is not the amount of feedback they receive from an instructor, but the focused development time they need to make the change. When there are budget constraints the decision will need to be made between time with your instructor in a group and the amount of dedicated feedback you can afford. I don't think there is one right answer and one wrong answer for that decision. Certainly in my own development as a skier the right answer for me has been more time in front of an instructor (which for reasons of cost means being in a group), although I've chosen very carefully the ski school or the instructor to minimise the potential drawbacks of being in a group.
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
It's not a competition to see who gets better faster, it's a way to maximise your OH's enjoyment and progression suited to her specific needs.
There may not be a year 2, let alone a year 6
Learned the hard way
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I understand this, it has to be fun enough in year one for her to want to go back. I get that. But I'm just not convinced that solo lessons are necessarily (a) more productive and/or (b) more fun than group lessons.
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This appears to be how you learned to ski and it worked for you. If your OH learns the same way then bingo.
I've made, and will hopefully continue to make, a living out of getting people - primarily women, primarily partners/wives to men who already ski at a high level - to 'give skiing one last shot' because their experiences up to that point have been awful.
The consistent themes have been
Unenjoyable and non-productive group lessons
Pushy partners
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To be fair, there's probably a whole host of instructors specialising in group lessons, who'll testify that a good number of their clients cite unenjoyable and non-productive 1:1 lessons and pushy partners as their reason for taking group lessons... so it's possibly not a valid comparison.
You've again made an assumption (that I learned in groups), again you are wrong... kind of. I started in solo lessons (I was earning too much and impatient to be good) and whilst I had a great instructor that I really liked, I found 1:1 lessons as a beginner really tough and moved to group lessons.
- As DOTM said, you've got nobody to compare yourself to, so when it's all going wrong, it's easy to feel like it's just you. When I moved to groups, it was nice to see people struggling in equal doses, because it made me feel less crap in my own right. It definitely caused what DOTM referred to as a 'negative feedback loop', I got very annoyed very quickly at my own inability to do the things my instructor was teaching me. I think there were points I would have definitely quit had I not really wanted to learn to ski, so this directly contradicts your advice above that there has to be a second year. The solo lessons I had were far more stressful and off-putting than the group lessons.
- 1:1 lessons can be quite intense and exhausting because you're constantly on the go with the instructor. In a group lesson, the small rests you get whilst people go down a section one at a time, can be a useful breather and an opportunity to watch what's going on a little bit too.
- Group lessons gave me people I could ski with outside lessons and develop with. As I said before, I think practice is just as important as the learning itself, and group lessons in the morning will often mean a guaranteed bunch of similar-ability people to ski with in the afternoon.
- Whilst it didn't pose me a problem myself, 1:1 lessons IMO place a greater importance on you getting on well with your instructor. My girlfriend is a born and bred Liverpool girl and if she doesn't take to the instructor will likely tell him to "fur cough" rather than playing diplomatic or (as some here would seem to suggest...) asking me to. I think a group lesson places less focus between the instructor and individual and there is less scope of her taking a strong disliking to her instructor in a group.
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| Have you settled on a resort? |
No. There are some valid options here and I want to look at them all and compare.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 25-07-18 11:05; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Gämsbock wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, I'd buy GNAR NOT SPA! |
I would have GNAR THEN SPA
It would match the
SKI.
BEER.
REPEAT.
T-shirt I already have
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@dp, I think you are right, about groups being best.... as long as they are small groups my personal feeling is 6 is a good max.
I suggested Les Arcs / Le Plagne which have Oxygène in that resort. I have only used them personally for private lessons but my friend has used them for groups and got on well and their max class size is 6 for group lessons.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Maireadoconnor wrote: |
| Gämsbock wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, I'd buy GNAR NOT SPA! |
I would have GNAR THEN SPA
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I'd have "GNAR IN THE SPA", with a points table on the back.
I reckon there'd be, at least:
- B3: Before 3pm: Any sauna activity before 3pm (50)
- BF: Belly Flop: Land a belly flop in pool (-1000)
- BN: Butt Naked: Complete spa session butt naked (10,000)
- BS: Budgie Smugglers: Visit spa wearing only old skool budgie smugglers (100)
- FC: Fart Claim: Fart in the sauna and claim it (500)
- GC: Gym Call-Out: To any gym-enthusiast, yell "Hey (name), I can't believe you go to the gym, I'm so much better toned than you! (500)
- KT: Kid Tsunami: Bomb in the pool with such ferocity you wash at least 1 small child out (500)
- NP: Nice Patrol: Get told off by spa staff but allowed to stay (-2000)
- PF: Pool Floater: Pull down your shorts and eject a hot steaming floater into the pool, then evacuate the area without drawing attention to yourself or the turd (1000)
- PO: Pass Out: Pass out in the sauna (1000)
- PS: Pool Sinker: Attempt a Pool Floater but it sinks to the bottom (-1000)
- RY: Radness Yell: Before bombing into the pool, yell "I'm going to rip the sh*t out of this" (200)
- SC: Steal Clothes: Steal the clothes of somebody going butt naked, causing them to walk home in the buff (200)
- SH: Steam Room BJ: Get hummer in the steam room (15,000)
- TW: Tub Wee: Wee in the hot tub with nobody noticing (300)
- UL: Urinate Length: Whilst swimming lengths, stop mid-length and urinate. Must empty bladder (200)
Any others?
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 25-07-18 12:11; edited 3 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| dp wrote: |
- TW: Tub Wee: Wee in the hot tub with nobody noticing (300)
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Isn't that just the same as sit in the hot tub? 
Actually I'd add
Kid Tsunami - Bomb in the pool with such ferocity you wash at least 1 small child out (500)
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The OP didn't say he didn't want to ski with her but did suggest she'd ski with "fellow learners" in the afternoons. I am not sexist and have done solo holidays, including skiing and sailing in the Arctic since my OH died. But if going on holiday with the man on my life - including a man who was a much weaker skier than I, I'd enjoy some slope time together.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Actually I'd add
Kid Tsunami - Bomb in the pool with such ferocity you wash at least 1 small child out (500) |
Added
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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In fact, come to think of it, my OH was a weaker skier and because of his heart condition couldn't walk up hills, either. But we still enjoyed gentle skiing and walking together. And what about my " be a beginner snowboarder" suggestion. I've done that too. Falling around easy slopes and remembering what it's like to be scared of getting off chair lifts is a great leveller.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@pam w, stop talking, you're making it worse not better
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| under a new name wrote: |
@dp, has to be said, your o.p. asked,
"what is the best way to facilitate this without having too detrimental an effect on my own ski trips?
What I would really like is a kind of trip where OH can ski in group lessons (or maybe - as is common - morning group lessons and afternoons with the fellow learners) and I can ski in some kind of company myself."
Which does somewhat imply that, "I want to pack her off onto her own activities so that I can go and do my own thing".
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Personally, I don't think it does. And a lot of others seemed to grasp that.
What it meant was that I want to give her the freedom to take lessons, ski with her new friends, and develop at her own pace... without being in a position where I have to pay for lessons I don't want as part of the same group; end up not having anybody to ski with because the people we're staying with are all beginners; or any other misfortune that would make my week less fun as a compromise for hers being as good as it can be. The ideal is that we both have a week that's as good as it can be. But good as it can be doesn't have to mean that I ski the optimal terrain for me and she skis the optimal terrain for her, which people have taken it to mean. If we enjoy skiing together then that can be optimal too.
There's also a bit of patronising crap where for some reason there is an expectation that because she's a noobie girl and I'm her experienced boyfriend, I have some kind of duty to ski with her where possible and also that there is an expectation that she will want to spend her time skiing with me. She is an independent woman and if she wants to go skiing with the people from her lessons, she's both completely at will to do that and I'm not in any way going to stop it. And likewise if one afternoon she's out of lessons but I want to go and do something beyond her scope, she's not so sensitive as to block it. We're both in agreement that we want to have a week's skiing where I can ski, she can learn, and we can ski together/apart as we wish with no expectation that either of us have an obligation to ski with the other except where we proactively want to, and that if we decide we want to ski with each other then we do that regardless of the effect it might have on my gnar or her lessons.
I shouldn't have had to explain that really because we are in 2018 now and that should just be normal.
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Anyhoo, my advice would be somewhere that has other things to do, has alpine charm (this includes the likes of Avoriaz which I find charming in a brutalist fashion) so taht in the event of the skiing not clicking, or indeed fitness perhaps getting in the way of all day skiing there are nice alternatives.
My list would include, Wengen/Mürren, Avoriaz (e.g. for aquaparc), Morzine, Chamonix in the right accommodation (so walking distance to e.g. Brevent lifts) (or lEs Houches), Courmayeur, Aosta (ski Pila), Megeve/Evasion MB.
I would be very surprised if there weren't group lessons available in the mornings in all locations (unless highest season). |
This seems to be coming around as a popular concept. I think she will definitely appreciate a reasonable traditional alpine experience in a charming and fairly traditional resort. As previously stated I personally love Les Houches for beginners and think it's a great area to learn on, I am not really against the idea of finding a chalet or hotel ithere and giving her the mornings with an ESF group; there'll be snowHeads I can meet in Cham or who'll come up to Les Houches, and depending on how she gets on we could maybe spend the last day at Evasion or Courmayeur. Les Houches lift passes are very reasonable (circa 40 EUR IIRC, a bit cheaper than Chamonix) too.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| The model of individuals learning to ski alongside other 'never evers' with one instructor doing his / her best to corral a group of similarly inexperienced but vastly different individuals - athtleticism, fitness, motivation - is set up to benefit the ski school first and foremost. The retention rates speak for themselves. |
Other than one group of kids last winter I haven't taught never-evers in over a decade, so have limited experience from which to draw on. However, my broader experience is that the limiting factor in a skier making changes is not the amount of feedback they receive from an instructor, but the focused development time they need to make the change. When there are budget constraints the decision will need to be made between time with your instructor in a group and the amount of dedicated feedback you can afford. I don't think there is one right answer and one wrong answer for that decision. Certainly in my own development as a skier the right answer for me has been more time in front of an instructor (which for reasons of cost means being in a group), although I've chosen very carefully the ski school or the instructor to minimise the potential drawbacks of being in a group. |
If ski lessons were free there would still be a breakdown of the following IMHO
I'll take a private lesson because I think it will give me bigger improvement
I'll take a private lesson because I prefer to learn something new without the distraction of others
I'll take a group lesson because I prefer to learn something new in the company of others
I'll take a group lesson because I'm looking for people to ski with post-lesson
I'm in a group lesson because my parents / significant other made / advised me
I'll pass, I'd rather ski on my own / with friends / with family
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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So at the moment, the options I'm considering most are:
- Compromising on the accommodation arrangement slightly, and doing a "part-time" UCPA week (morning lessons, free afternoons); or even a "full time" UCPA week as (contrary to popular assumption) she is not against the concept of not-skiing together and just catching up in the evenings, if it means that she gets better instruction.
- Holding out for a MYAsHBash (and hoping that preferably it's not in Livigno) which should see her get morning lessons and afternoons off, with freedom to either ski together in the afternoons or let her explore the area with new friends.
- Booking an hotel or chalet in a charming alpine resort and booking a week's course of mornings with a local ski school, with the freedom to ski afternoons with me or with her coursemates
- Booking a self-catering apartment in a charming alpine resort and booking a week's course of mornings with a local ski school as above - with the self-catering aspect literally being there to free up money that can otherwise thus be spent on lessons.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| dp wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
It's not a competition to see who gets better faster, it's a way to maximise your OH's enjoyment and progression suited to her specific needs.
There may not be a year 2, let alone a year 6
Learned the hard way
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I understand this, it has to be fun enough in year one for her to want to go back. I get that. But I'm just not convinced that solo lessons are necessarily (a) more productive and/or (b) more fun than group lessons.
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This appears to be how you learned to ski and it worked for you. If your OH learns the same way then bingo.
I've made, and will hopefully continue to make, a living out of getting people - primarily women, primarily partners/wives to men who already ski at a high level - to 'give skiing one last shot' because their experiences up to that point have been awful.
The consistent themes have been
Unenjoyable and non-productive group lessons
Pushy partners
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To be fair, there's probably a whole host of instructors specialising in group lessons, who'll testify that a good number of their clients cite unenjoyable and non-productive 1:1 lessons and pushy partners as their reason for taking group lessons... so it's possibly not a valid comparison.
You've again made an assumption (that I learned in groups), again you are wrong... kind of. I started in solo lessons (I was earning too much and impatient to be good) and whilst I had a great instructor that I really liked, I found 1:1 lessons as a beginner really tough and moved to group lessons.
- As DOTM said, you've got nobody to compare yourself to, so when it's all going wrong, it's easy to feel like it's just you. When I moved to groups, it was nice to see people struggling in equal doses, because it made me feel less crap in my own right. It definitely caused what DOTM referred to as a 'negative feedback loop', I got very annoyed very quickly at my own inability to do the things my instructor was teaching me. I think there were points I would have definitely quit had I not really wanted to learn to ski, so this directly contradicts your advice above that there has to be a second year. The solo lessons I had were far more stressful and off-putting than the group lessons.
- 1:1 lessons can be quite intense and exhausting because you're constantly on the go with the instructor. In a group lesson, the small rests you get whilst people go down a section one at a time, can be a useful breather and an opportunity to watch what's going on a little bit too.
- Group lessons gave me people I could ski with outside lessons and develop with. As I said before, I think practice is just as important as the learning itself, and group lessons in the morning will often mean a guaranteed bunch of similar-ability people to ski with in the afternoon.
- Whilst it didn't pose me a problem myself, 1:1 lessons IMO place a greater importance on you getting on well with your instructor. My girlfriend is a born and bred Liverpool girl and if she doesn't take to the instructor will likely tell him to "fur cough" rather than playing diplomatic or (as some here would seem to suggest...) asking me to. I think a group lesson places less focus between the instructor and individual and there is less scope of her taking a strong disliking to her instructor in a group.
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| Have you settled on a resort? |
No. There are some valid options here and I want to look at them all and compare. |
Fair enough.
We have very different opinions and experiences.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@dp,
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Sans flights it's approx £1500/person/week for Club Med, £1000 for UCPA, and MYAsHBash came in closer to £700!
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Before you right off Club Med (CM) - do remember that price is FULLY inclusive (probaly except equipment hire and insurance). You will probably only spend 20Euro on top of that as it includes:
Breakfast, lunch, tea(snacks), evening meal, drinks (from 11am!), Flights, Transfers, Full area ski pass, instruction (circa 5 hours per day for 5 days)
I know CM isn't for everyone but you should do a like for like comparison!
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
If ski lessons were free there would still be a breakdown of the following IMHO
I'll take a private lesson because I think it will give me bigger improvement
I'll take a private lesson because I prefer to learn something new without the distraction of others
I'll take a group lesson because I prefer to learn something new in the company of others
I'll take a group lesson because I'm looking for people to ski with post-lesson
I'm in a group lesson because my parents / significant other made / advised me
I'll pass, I'd rather ski on my own / with friends / with family |
Yes, agree with all that, and I'd add:
I'll take a group lesson because I like the camaraderie and mutual support that I usually get in a group of like minded skiers.
However, ski lessons are rarely free, so for me I've always had a trade off between time in front of an instructor and sharing his or her attention with others in the group. It doesn't always result in the same answer, so sometimes I've booked private lessons, other times a week-long group lessons. The deciding factor is normally if I want to work on one specific thing I'll book a private lesson, if I want all round improvement and time to be taken to terrain that I otherwise wouldn't ski myself I'll take group lessons.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@dp, You've not really focused on the "Do a standard Brit TO Chalet Hol" option - that would take care of catering and if you choose a chalet of say 16-20 people, outside of school hols, chances are you'd both find others to ski with outside of lessons if you so choose.
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| skitrack wrote: |
Before you right off Club Med (CM) - do remember that price is FULLY inclusive (probaly except equipment hire and insurance). You will probably only spend 20Euro on top of that as it includes:
Breakfast, lunch, tea(snacks), evening meal, drinks (from 11am!), Flights, Transfers, Full area ski pass, instruction (circa 5 hours per day for 5 days)
I know CM isn't for everyone but you should do a like for like comparison! |
The Club Med trips I found for that price did not include flights. So considering that UCPA do food, transfers, ski pass, ski hire and instruction; and MYAsHBash includes food (except lunch), ski pass and instruction... it's not far from like-for-like. Obviously the open bar will account for some spending in resort, but again UCPA is cheap drinks and even on the MYAsHBash, my hotel bar bill was less than ski hire would've been.
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FAQ
