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Austria Resort help because I am too choosy!

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
3 options of Ischgl, Saalbach or Hinterglemm on 5th or 12th January. Early Intermediate skier looking for lots of Blues and Reds with a mixture of pistes - wide, long and straight. Not interested in Apres ski or nightlife as I like to stay on the slopes as late as possible and get on them as soon as they open! Will stay at a cheap room or B and B because I like to eat out at different places

Ischgl the run down at the end of the day gets very busy and slushy which I dont like the sound of..

Lastly who visits each Resort? is Saalbach flooded with Brits? and Ischgl mainly Swedes?
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@NewSki, Can't see the home run being slushy in early January!! You can also come into from quieter routes from memory and it was only the last stretch that was busy (and slushy) when I was there in April.
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Can only speak for Ischgl but:
- Would work for you run-wise and eating out. Even a cheap Ischgl B&B isn't likely to be everyone's idea of cheap though.
- No guarantees as it's down to weather but the home runs shouldn't be slushy in Jan, that's more of a late March/April/May issue.
- The apres is one of the big draws of Ischgl for a lot of people which means the home runs will be busy say 3:30-4:30 as people head to the bar. If you really are a first lift/last lift skier they should actually be relativly quite by the time you're heading home - if cut up in to soft mogals. Any steeper sections are football pitch wide though.
- Most visitors are German/Austrian. Next often feels like being the Russians, but they are just more obvious than numerous and it's actually the Norwegens/Swedes/Danish and then the Russians, with the Brits, Dutch, and I noticed last year an increasing number of French bring up the rear.
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@NewSki, go to La Thuile, it will match your needs perfectly.
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@northantsred, which part of Austria is that?
@NewSki, I tend to avoid Ischgl for the very reason that it has turned into a monster apres party place. It's been a long time, but I remember the valley run as being narrow, icy and full of out of control pissheads... maybe things have improved cos this was more than 20 years ago though. Personally for an intermediate I would probably go for Saalbach-Hinterglemm or somewhere like Kitzbühel. Just my view!
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@NewSki, As an early intermediate skier, Saalbach (or Hinterglemm) would be ideal for you. The Ski Circus is renowned as an intermediate's paradise, with 270km of mainly blue and red, cruising pistes. It lends itself to long itineraries, whereby you can ski 60km around the circuit without repeating the same piste twice. Some of the pistes are around 7km long. At the end of the day you can gravitate to one of the mountain restaurants, enjoy a sociable drink or two, and then, as the sun sets behind the mountains and the sky turns red, ski down idyllically quiet, freshly groomed pistes. (In early January a head torch would be a wise investment, as it gets dark quickly between 4 - 5pm).
You can pick and choose whether to do any apres-ski, which tends to occur between 3.30-7.30pm, and it can be as extreme or laid-back as you wish, depending on the choice of venue. The mountain restaurants number over 60, and I don't know of a bad one (although we have established favourites). The village eateries are plentiful, varied and reasonably priced, ranging from Bobby's Pub (good pub grub from around 7 euros for a decent meal) to restaurants serving Austrian, Italian, Oriental and Mexican dishes - also some great pizzerias and takeaways.
You will be able to find good ski-in ski-out accommodation for as little as 35 euros per night. (I can help with that)
Saalbach has a cosmopolitan atmosphere - a fair few Brits but not as many as as you might expect in certain other resorts, probably more Dutch, German and Scandinavians. Some of the late evening bars are run by Swedes and Dutch people.
If you would like a copy of my comprehensive, 20 page guide to Saalbach-Hinterglemm-Leogang-Fieberbrunn, PM me your email address and I'll send it you.
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@NewSki,
Another option is the Skiwelt. A big area with some long blue valley runs, as well as lots a few shorter ones on top. The Ellmau end has most of the easier skiing.
The low altitude shouldn't be an issue in mid January. It would be cheaper than your other options, but some accommodation is a bus ride from the slopes so you'd need to keep an eye out for that.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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@NewSki, Saalbach and Hinterglemm would be perfect for you. Lots of accommodation options, and the pistes are exactly what you've requested in most areas. For extra snow time, Hinterglemm has a floodlit slope which is OK though a little limited given that there is just a single lift and two ways to get down from it, but I've done it and enjoyed it for an hour in the evening.

In January, nowhere should be slushy, but if the weather is very unkind then all of them have areas which aren't great - the Turmwiese slope in Saalbach and the bottom part of Hochalm in Hinterglemm, but you can avoid these easily.

Clientele are German, Dutch, British, Danish, Czech in approximately that order, with other Scandies and lowlanders thrown in. We visit at half term every year, and while it is busy then, it is never crowded. The lifts and snowmaking are excellent, and I'd recommend this valley to anyone.

I've not been to Ischgl, but it is on my list of places to try - my reservations in the past have been based on price and accessibility from here.

@northantsred, why suggest Italy when someone specifically asks about Austria Puzzled Do you have an apartment there or something? Seems strange, especially when you recommended Hinterglemm previously...
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Go to Hinterglemm.

Ischgl is a bit downmarket.
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I am not a great fan of S-H (I know that any criticism upsets the fan boys around here) however in this case it might suit you better than Ischgl. The valley runs there are almost always crap, the lower parts really should be black, narrow, usually moguled, often icy and too many folk skiing too fast, unless you are pretty confident get the gondolas down from the mid station. The village itself does tend to the expensive side (it is not downmarket, lots of 4 star hotels catering for rich Russians and Germans) and not sure there is any great variety of eating places outside of the hotels. All that said the skiing is good, though as its mostly above the tree line bad weather can be an issue, especially in January.

In early January S-H's greatest weakness (lots of low south facing slopes) will not be an issue. Personally I would go with Kitzbühel but you are likely to have a good time in S-H too and it is possibly a little bit cheaper. Not something that greatly interests me but I would have thought Kitzbühel has a bigger choice of restaurants than in the Glemmtal.
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@munich_irish, Not so much upset as mystified - Kitz is smaller, lower and less popular. Each to his own as they say.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I profess to being one of those Saalbach fanboys and can confirm that getting down from the slopes at the end of the day is not a problem at all. In addition to the various runs that go down to the two villages there are other runs outside of the towns (2b being a prime example) that require a short, free and frequent bus back to your base and of course various convenient gondola downloading options.
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@PeteMan, ...although the preferred option (wherever we've been skiing) is generally to get to the Schoenleitenbahn before 4.00pm, so that the last run of the day can be that long.leisurely run down the Kohlmais to the village after the lifts have closed and the slopes have cleared. In my experience no other last run compares with it, except perhaps piste 61 to Viehhofen, the Asitz/Steinberg runs at Leogang, and the last run (Jerusalem) down to St Martin de Belleville. I do like a glorious Abfahrt (preferably directly to my accommodation), and munich_irish's description of the unpleasant valley runs at Ischgl reminds me of the home runs at St Anton and Val d'Isere.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Hinterglemm would be a good option, as well as Fieberbruu (which is linked to the Saalbach/hinterglemm ski circus. All available via regular and specialist tour ops. If you want a DIOY option I'd give Serfaus fiss a look.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@NewSki, Isn't one of your dates Russian New Year? Would be worth checking.

We stayed in Saalbach last New Year at a B&B called Haus Kohlbrundl, you can find it and loads of others on the excellent website, https://www.saalbach.com/saalbach-booking/MasterReq?AR=1&FL=100&LG=1&RA=2&AM=1&MB=0
It was fine, nice host, good brekkie, excellent boot room - not ski in ski out but an easy walk to access lifts to either side of the valley and the shops and restaurants.


I can't speak for Ischgl but Saalbach would appear to hit your mark. The majority of visitors were German when we went, then Scandis who seem to travel in big groups which makes them more noticeable possibly, but the ski school classes were mainly British.
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@Penry, if I choose the 5th then I think so?? https://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/russia/2019 will it be flooded with Russians then?
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@munich_irish, in Saalbach-Hinterglemm there’s only one home run that should be a black, and it’s a black! The Bernkogel run is about 3 football pitches wide nearly all the way down.

Kitz caters much more for the upmarket end than Saalbach.
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@hammerite, His slightly ambiguous comments about nasty home runs were apparently referring to Ischgl.
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@NewSki, and@Penry, last season the Russian new year week was pretty quiet. The number of Russian visitors seems to have decreased considerably.
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tatmanstours wrote:
@hammerite, His slightly ambiguous comments about nasty home runs were apparently referring to Ischgl.


Ah ok!
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Surely in Sallbach and hinteglemm the only 'challenging' pistes to the valley are Zwolfer Nord at the hinterglemm end, and #schatberg at the Saalbach end.Last time I skied Zwolfer Nord I think it had been turned red, such a shame that was a really good run down to the valley. Other than that everything is easily doable at the end of the day. For me Hinterglemm always works better, more variedy skiing down from either north or south side, Quieter village, less problems accessing first lift in the morning. The Russian skiers I've met in the past have all been really pleasant (I spent two days skiing with on I met on the mountain in Warth two years ago). innevitably apres time is when things get a little lively, Brits are amongst the worst offenders here.
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hammerite wrote:
@munich_irish, in Saalbach-Hinterglemm there’s only one home run that should be a black, and it’s a black! The Bernkogel run is about 3 football pitches wide nearly all the way down.

Kitz caters much more for the upmarket end than Saalbach.


why is this?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@NewSki, the accommodation prices are 50% higher and because of the Hahnenkamm factor, plus the town is full of expensive shops. Saalbach is not at the cheap end of the market, but it's not eye-wateringly expensive either. Kitzbuhel and St Anton are at the top end, and small places like Maria Alm are at the other. The skiing at Kitzbuhel can be good, but it is not worth paying premium prices for - that said, staying in Kirchberg makes it much more affordable and provides the same area plus easier access to the Ski Welt if you wanted to combine them.

Bob, the Zwolfernordabfahrt has not been sculpted, re-routed or widened - it simply changed from a black with a couple of red options to go around the steeper parts to a red with a couple of black options. The run is the same - who cares what colour it is once you know you can get down it?
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@Bob,
Quote:

Surely in Sallbach and hinteglemm the only 'challenging' pistes to the valley are Zwolfer Nord at the hinterglemm end, and #schatberg at the Saalbach end.

That may well be about right, although piste 2b can be tricky and exhausting for intermediate skiers in the late afternoon. Apart from the runs you've mentioned (Nos. 14 and 1 respectively), Piste 15 (World Cup run on Zwoelferkogel) is of course a challenging black run, although it becomes a red run from the mid-station of the gondola to the bottom. The other so-called black runs are relatively easy and short: the one under the Schattberg Sprinter, the one down to Leogang, the one from the top of the Hochalm chair, and the one under the Reckmoos Nord gondola at Fieberbrunn.
Quote:

Last time I skied Zwolfer Nord I think it had been turned red, such a shame that was a really good run down to the valley.

That's piste 14, which is still enjoyable, but I know what you mean. It changed to red the season before last, and some of us commented then that it seemed surprising that Saalbach should decide to regrade one of its few "proper" black runs into a red. Apparently, since there are a couple of very steep (definitely black) sections, at the beginning and the end, which can be by-passed on easier "red" alternatives, it was decided to call it a red with black options, rather than a black with red options. The regrading does seem to have encouraged more people to use it, which was presumably the intention. Whereas formerly only those wanting to do a black would have tackled the run, now of course it attracts all and sundry. Whether the various "improvement" works that have been done over the years have made it tamer is a moot point, but the steep sections are certainly just as they always have been.
Quote:

For me Hinterglemm always works better, more variedy skiing down from either north or south side, Quieter village, less problems accessing first lift in the morning.

A somewhat contentious point, and I'm inclined to disagree (which no one will find surprising). My reasons: I prefer the blues and reds (5 in total) coming down from Kohlmais and Bernkogel to the ones coming down from Reiterkogel and Schattberg. I prefer the feel of Saalbach village, which, according to my perception is more attractive and compact and involves less walking between lifts. I also like the bars and restaurants in Saalbach. I find it difficult to address the " problems accessing first lift in the morning" point, as I've never experienced any problems. I'm rarely out before 10.00am and never need to queue, but I've never heard any of my guests or earlier-rising friends and acquaintances complain. Also the Kohlmais gondola (brand new 10 seater for the coming season) is right opposite my front door, which couldn't be handier. Various people I know have given Hinterglemm a try after staying in Saalbach, and they invariably seem to return to Saalbach; the reasons seem to include their partiality to places like the Bergeralm, the Hinterhag and the Spitzbub, the lack of ski buses passing through Hinterglemm, and also that Saalbach is more centrally placed in the system, with quick access to Leogang and piste 61 to Viehhofen, as well as in the other direction to Hinterglemm and Fieberbrunn. Each to his/her own - no doubt each village has its pros and cons, but both are unlikely to disappoint most holiday-makers.
Quote:

Brits are amongst the worst offenders here.

I've never seen anything unpleasant at apres-ski time, except for a few inoffensive drunks - usually Dutch, German or Scandis. The Brits are very much in the minority.
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@NewSki, having been to all 3 I prefer Hinterglemm - the only thing swinging it versus Saalbach being the night skiing in Hinterglemm plus tubing etc. Hinterglemm does have a wee bit less choice for dining out in evening though.
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@boabski, That's a valid point (the night skiing) if you intend to do it more than once or twice in a week, although we normally combine it with an apres-ski session at the Goassstall, followed by (after the night skiing) either dinner at the Knappenstube, or a taxi back to Saalbach (5 mins at warp speed!) Saalbach's less official version of night skiing tends to be that final run down, sometimes well after dark, down the Kohlmais or the Bernkogel. Piste 52 (Maisabfahrt) is partially floodlit, and I've noticed that the Bernkogel is also increasingly often floodlit, which hardly discourages people from staying up the mountain until well after the lifts have stopped.
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@NewSki, Not been to Saalbach / Hinterglemm which sounds very suitable.
With Ischgl I wouldn't be put off by the ski back to resort . It is highly unlikely to be slushy early january unless its unseasonably warm in which case the added height of the skiing will be of significant overall benefit.
It does though undoubtedly get busy and scraped towards the end of the afternoon However skiing it earlier in the day is usually fine (before approx 3pm) and downloading the last section(which is the crowded part) for the final ski of the day is pretty straightforward and shouldn't detract from the skiing.
Its a great ski area suitable for many skiers , if the apres ski is not important to you you could consider staying down the road at Kappl which is what I have done most times I've skied there.
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NewSki wrote:
hammerite wrote:
@munich_irish, in Saalbach-Hinterglemm there’s only one home run that should be a black, and it’s a black! The Bernkogel run is about 3 football pitches wide nearly all the way down.

Kitz caters much more for the upmarket end than Saalbach.


why is this?


Saalbach = cheap Brit packages.
Ischgl = mouthy Brits and Russians.
Kitzbuehel = absurd Munich snobs on weekend break.
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You know it makes sense.
@Whitegold, Laughing
that’s what we need, a ‘cut the crap’ guide to ski resorts.
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@PeakyB, shame it was total bollox as usual...
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@PeakyB, Mmmm don't know about the other places but on my visits to Ischgl the comments keep the crap, there are relatively few Brits and most of the Russians have been much lower key than in other resorts I've visited.
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Whitegold wrote:
NewSki wrote:
hammerite wrote:
@munich_irish, in Saalbach-Hinterglemm there’s only one home run that should be a black, and it’s a black! The Bernkogel run is about 3 football pitches wide nearly all the way down.

Kitz caters much more for the upmarket end than Saalbach.


why is this?


Saalbach = cheap Brit packages.
Ischgl = mouthy Brits and Russians.
Kitzbuehel = absurd Munich snobs on weekend break.


if it is cheap Brit packages then you have put me off because this is what I want to avoid
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@NewSki,
Mate, @Whitegold, can be amusing but his caricatures of most things are generally painfully inaccurate. I've never been to Kitz or Saalbach but I would want much stronger evidence than his assertions even if Bavarian snobs and cheap packages were my own bete noir.
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@NewSki, if you put any faith in the words of Whitegold then your soul is lost forever... you've asked for and received details of the visitor breakdown in these places, and they're in agreement, but then along comes one of the resident trolls and posts his usual garbage and suddenly you're not sure. If Saalbach really is the home of "cheap Brit packages", see if you can find any. For a mid-January week, Crystal (purveyor of cheap packages to the masses) offers 11 properties between £679 per person B&B and £1439 per person half board, both including flights from London. In the same week, they have an offer to Borovets in Bulgaria for £326 per person half board, and everything under £400 is in Bulgaria. The first mainstream destinations are La Plagne in France at £417 self-catering, then Les Deux Alpes, La Tania, and several other French resorts. Austrian destinations come in just under £500, in small places with limited skiing such as Niederau, Rauris, and Alpbach.

Ignore the troll - one of the joys of the Glemmtal is that it is not overrun by anyone, and even in the busiest weeks there are no queues. We go at half term every year, so believe me we know. In that week, and that week alone, there are usually 6-10 coaches of British school kids and even then they're never more than a passing rabble. Austria remains off the radar for 80% of British skiers, and long may that continue wink
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@ousekjarr,
Quote:
Austria remains off the radar for 80% of British skiers, and long may that continue
True, but some places, most notably St.Anton, have become magnets for Brits of the Hooray Henry class. Was in St.Anton for the first time in seven years last April. Place was a cacophony of Oh Ja's. Found myself sitting on a chairlift with Fiona and Samantha discussing who has got the bigger job at their respective law firms, who is in bed with which CEO and the fact that Penelope has decided to do it by artificial insemination without telling hubby rolling eyes I don't think they knew I spoke English until I explained the purpose of the funny bent tubes sticking out the side of the mountain...
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@NewSki, If I may add my voice to those who regard the notorious Whitegold as this forum's answer to a computer virus, please don't allow his spam to lead you astray. You would not be the first to misled by his pithy but wildly and wilfully inaccurate comments. The good news is that, as far as I know, he's the only troll. However, as a relative newbie, you will find this forum a mine of useful information; that is not to say that you won't find occasional unhelpful or inaccurate comments, but these tend to be quickly corrected by those who have better or wider experience.

Contributors to this forum tend to fall into the following categories:
- Those who are well-travelled and have long and varied experience of many countries and ski resorts
- Those who have travelled/skied widely but have eventually settled in one resort
- Those whose knowledge is somewhat limited, having only skied in one or a few areas
- Those who really know only a very few resorts in one country and have big gaps in their knowledge
- Those who have in depth knowledge of only one or two resorts but can perhaps be regarded as specialists
- Those who have scant knowledge and proffer advice on a resort based on a short visit, and sometimes without having even stayed in the resort itself
- Whitegold, who routinely spreads disinformation

@ousekjarr, Well said. The only cheap Brit packages that I'm aware of were those offered by Neilson to the Hotel Central - excellent, B&B packages, but that stopped a couple of years ago when Neilson dropped that particular option.

@NewSki, You could do worse thansearch for and read some of the previous years' threads about particular resorts - a mine of useful information from people who know these places thoroughly.
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Another vote for S-H here. But I would also add that Fieberbrunn isn't a great base for an early intermediate. You'd be skiing a few long red runs which can be quite hard just to get to the main S-H valley every day and you need to watch the clock to make sure you get back on time every afternoon. It's a long way round by taxi if you miss the last lift. Connection to Leogang is by easier pistes but again you'd be repeating a lot of the same runs every day just to get to and from the main area.
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@Valkyrie, Depends on what kind of "early intermediate" we're talking about - some less adventurous ones might be happy with what Fieberbrunn has to offer, and some of those lower reds are the equivalent of blues elsewhere in the area. By the way, surely there is no connection to Leogang without taking a taxi or ski bus, or travelling via Saalbach?
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@tatmanstours, Neilson offer a cheap option at the Reisinger in Hinterglemm, but Brits are usually in the minority staying and it’s a pretty small property. The other options definitely aren’t cheap.

I’d actually say that @Whitegold’s assessment of Kitz wasn’t too far wrong, but we’re still talking Austria where it’s possible to find relatively good value anywhere.
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@hammerite, one out of three is in the Trump league of accuracy... and even then many people would dispute such a sweeping statement as the place does mainly have visitors who stay for the week. Lots of the northern Austrian resorts get a large influx of Bavarians for the weekend or on a day trip by coach, but again the resorts are designed to cope with that, and the free parking and shuttle buses still don't mean that the lifts or slopes are crowded.
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