 Poster: A snowHead
|
I am not sure if it was down to the warm up or to the way I leapt like a salmon off the mogul only to land like Andy Pandy after the wires had been cut.
If you are looking at your right leg - it is the left side just above the knee
I am leaving it for tonight, I feel that it is just stretched rather than torn.
I want to stretch it tomorrow so it doesnt continue to knot up after todays well mogul tumbling session.
All guidance / help gratefully accepted
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Caveat - don't do this if there is any pain/torn thingymajigs - so if tomorrow all things appear OK...
Dynamic stretching works for me - nae touching yer toes with cold muscles etc - so, specifically for "it is the left side just above the knee" - I'd work this into your warm-up:
Walking lunges - 20 paces ish
High knees on the spot - 20 secs ish
Standing squat (imagine you have a bar on shoulders and squat with well rounded "happy cat" back) - 8 reps
Jog on spot with heels touching bum - 20 secs ish
All the best
Dave
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
no worries wont be doing anything if there is pain....
I will give this a go and see what happens
thank you
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
if you hurt it today then RICE it...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Rest I C E 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
obelix67, strangely, I was talking to my (physio) missus about how to stretch that muscle just the other day. The best way is to do the old, familiar wall squats, but with a towel gripped between your legs. That way, both sides of your quads will get worked and stretched.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I am guessing the towel is gripped in between the thighs ?
it was stiff and sore this morning and under my knee was swollen although not sore ....?
Might try tonight - might leave it until tomorrow
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
obelix67, RICE= Rest ,Ice,Compression,Elevation. Needs to start soon after the incident to be effective. I guess, that for you now, the Rest bit will be the most important element.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
My understanding is that pre exercise stretching has no effect in preventing injuries, and is a bit of a waste of time. Rather one should do gentle warm up exercise initially, and end the day with a gentle warm down.
Now I'm usually pretty good at taking it easy first thing in the morning, but I always seem to make the last run of the day a black run or similar, which probably isn't doing me any good, and may explain the stiff legs the next day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
obelix67, no, you need to grip the towel, rolled up, between your knees. The inner part of your quad, as i understand it, is what gives you strength for turning and twisting, whereas the outer part is for power. I can't guarantee the exercise will warm the muscle up, but it's an often neglected muscle which you may need to strengthen. Partculalrly if you're a big bloke? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
It is the muscle you use when doing a hockey stop (because after I couldnt) but you dont use when walking (well not much anyway).
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Kramer, 4,300 posts! What a nice round number. Back on topic, haven't you ever wondered why most accidents happen on the last run (anecdotally, no idea if it's true). Actually, it probably isn't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| obelix67 wrote: |
| Rest I C E |
Rest.... not total rest (no longer suggested) just effective... eg you can get in a pool and walk/kickboard with a MCL strain as long as you don't do the sideways movements... etc etc... you get the idea ...
Ice..... 10mins out of every hour for the first 24-48 hours NO HOT TUBS OR SPAS... these are for geese in the first 24 hours.... some debate on NSAIDS - some doctors use some say not for 24 hours.... once you are post 24 hours it becomes YES as you want to get mobile to limit loss of ROM generally.... that is why you take your painkillers and then do the physio...(OK guess where I worked not that long ago?)
Compression.... yes a compression bandage on affected area
Elevation ...... yes elevate it.... above heart level is my vague memory of it.... so you would lie down with foot up at shoulder height.... you get exempt when you are mobilising though... it is only while you rest
That is just off the top of my head... i am used to have printouts to hand out...etc... not in Ireland they don't though![/b]
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Kramer wrote: |
My understanding is that pre exercise stretching has no effect in preventing injuries, and is a bit of a waste of time. Rather one should do gentle warm up exercise initially, and end the day with a gentle warm down.
. |
yes - my skiing friend the physical education teacher says warm up should be done - preferably moving sort of same way as you will do in the sport... (eg swimmers, swimming arms etc).... in surfing a few gentle jump ups and paddles are suggested.... it makes your body THINK it will start soon partly...
Skiing I am told a gentle warm up run is best...
same friend INSISTS on stretching after skiing though... within 30minutes of stopping she tells me I should be stretching....
I try....
Physios tell me that stretching only when doing sport is a waste of time in many ways.... the best thing you can do is stretch EVERY DAY.... repetitive stretching is what increases range of motion....
training stabiliser muscles etc is what will prevent injury most (eg the jump on and off box while catching medicine ball for knees in skiing)... You need to train for deceleration as that is where the injury is most likely to happen...(I dunno that is what the sports docs tell me)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
my sons and I are all very flexible - when I was young mum made me do yoga and I am still quite comfortable in a full lotus, although I have not tried to get up and run on my knees in a while 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| obelix67 wrote: |
| my sons and I are all very flexible - when I was young mum made me do yoga and I am still quite comfortable in a full lotus, although I have not tried to get up and run on my knees in a while |
see
flexible - but not training stabiliser muscles = more likely to get injured
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| obelix67 wrote: |
| my sons and I are all very flexible - when I was young mum made me do yoga and I am still quite comfortable in a full lotus, although I have not tried to get up and run on my knees in a while |
I've been able to do that most of my life withOUT doing any yoga.... just could.... that said I could never get within 4 inches of touching my toes without practice....
What does it prove? not much except one set of muscles/tendons etc are happy in one position...
If you do yoga daily do what you normally do - a good routine will stretch all the appropriate muscles surely?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I dont daily yoga  - 2 things I do daily - cross trainer and rowing machine - depending on the time some stretching afterwards
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
No idea what "exercise" you think "crosstrainer" is but i'd remind you that sports docs hate leg extension machines for a reason....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
little tiger, the cross trainer is a cyclical CV machine, medium impact.
The problem with leg extension machines is the way that they get used, and what they get used for.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ah thanks Kramer...
No the sports medicine docs from AIS seem to just hate leg extension machine in general.... I got the lecture when i tore my medial ligament and have not touched the thing since......
they say that you can work legs as well in other ways and that le machine only works large muscles - no training done on stabilisation and no attempt to learn to recruit in correct order....
The jumping on and off boxes with medicine ball catch on landing is almost the opposite... works stability & deceleration ....
Lunges onto unstable surfaces and from unstable surfaces and recovering in different directions etc help to teach stuff as well as build strength... ditto squats in similar situations....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
little tiger, those last 2 look like a recipe for twists, pulls and tears.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
no they actually teach you to stabilise the legs (especially around the knee area) and activate from the feet rather than the large leg muscles.....
If you are not used to it just start with simple lunges with no weight.... make sure you keep good form.... lunge well down... try them with recovery back to start... recovery forward... lunge backwards rather than forwards etc.... once you can do that try lunging onto a dyna disc or similar.....
Ditto squats - do them first until comfy... then use a dyna disc....
standing on a fitball is a bad risk benefit situation.... but properly executed lunges etc are not really a risk ....
I can do all of the above to some degree & my balance is worse than any of you are likely to ever have & I have never had an accident...
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
little tiger,
| Quote: |
I have never had an accident
|
You don't need to be unfit to have an accident on skis/board.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| obelix67 wrote: |
| little tiger, those last 2 look like a recipe for twists, pulls and tears. |
totall agree - don't do jumps, or unstable exercises, and particularly not with weights - they are high impact which is not good. Not everyone is perfectly healthy like little tiger - I, unfortunately have damaged knees, so those twisting/jumping things are just plain crazy, and cause more damage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| little tiger wrote: |
| I have never had an accident... |
I already have 4 children
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| snowbunny wrote: |
little tiger,
| Quote: |
I have never had an accident
|
You don't need to be unfit to have an accident on skis/board. |
you lunge in a gym (or at home) not on skis ....
the whole idea of doing them in a controlled manner is to minimise risk and train muscles that are needed to prevent injury(or reinjury)....
hey but what the hell would the Australian Institute of Sport know about such things... after all look at their record training their athletes.... such poor performances they put in....
Go ahead keep doing the dry slope training - that will do it!
Dale Begg-Smith had no idea what he was doing when he chose the country whose team he wanted to train in... because he is such an impetuous idiot he just picked a warm dry place for FUN!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
little tiger, Please explain how being fit, will prevent any accidents on either skis or a snowboard.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
same way training these muscles prevents injury in football basketball etc....
the risk of injury increases with such things as inconsistent quad/hamstring strength (increases risk of ACL tears)...
Ditto the rate of injury or reinjury increases in those that activate larger muscles before stabiliser muscles (that is why they are stabiliser muscles - so they can stabilise!) ....
That is why you train doing stuff such as lunges and you train for stabilisation.... by training on unstable surfaces
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| snowbunny wrote: |
| little tiger, Please explain how being fit, will prevent any accidents on either skis or a snowboard. |
Not accidents, but injury.
Unfortunately, for the likes of me, and many others, to do the exercises little tiger is suggesting would mean we'd never make it near the slopes, and would have to be carried from gyms.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| little tiger wrote: |
| by training on unstable surfaces |
But training on unstable circumstances is ridiculous for many, such as those with joint problems, or balance problems. That sort of training will cause more injuries for those people, than it will cure!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I have both - that is what the physiotherapists and sports medicine doctors from the Australian Institute of Sport prescribed....
I was doing dynadisc squats on one leg within a month of tearing my medial ligament... and the knee pain from wear and tear on my knee from years of bad feet is MUCH better when I do those (as prescribed by the physio) on a regular basis than when i don't....
HOW do you think Alisa Camplin got a bronze medal within months of a knee reconstruction? Sitting in the lounge?
If you are going to send a "joint problem" skiing then you damn well want to test it out under control conditions in the gym before sending it out in an uncontrolled one.... I was in the pool within 3 days kickboarding everyday to get ROM and strength... squats started the following day and were done many times a day .... pool every day and bike riding every day.... once it was staBLE and had rom on its own it started stability training.... If I could not do the stability work in the gym with my body weight I was not to be on snow taking G-forces greater and with unexpected forces happening....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
little tiger, is that the same Miss Camplin who has wrecked her leg twice in a couple of years? Sounds like these exercises really helped her!
Sorry, but I disagree with your friends, and I'm basing that on doctors reports of my injuries. If I were to do what you describe, I would be in hospital, and probably on the way to a major reconstruction of my knee.
I do not test my joint problem, I do exercises to build up support from the muscles and skeleton to reduce the impact on the joint. Carrying out a high impact/high stress regime on the joint would destroy it. (and that's not from some sports scientist, or whatever, but from surgeons and doctors who really know what they are talking about)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Wear The Fox Hat, damn
I find myself in the middle - I can appreciate what LT is trying to get across, also what you are trying to get across WTFH, the problem I find when you say "but from surgeons and doctors who really know what they are talking about" is that in many cases it is their subjective opinion based on how up to date they are with their CPD and what they regulary prescribe, not always necessarily what is actually the best for you.
You dont need much of a straw pole to find out how many people have been misdiagnosed or incorrectly medicated over any time frame by
"surgeons and doctors who really know what they are talking about".......possibly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dynadiscs are neither high impact nor high stress.... (skiing is often both!)
In fact a dynadisc is LOW impact.... as you are on an air cushion
the whole point of using an unstable surface is to build support for the bad joint - as you recruit support rather than just large muscles.... also you become less likely to tweak it (why I am supposed to do these all the time as my right knee is not great and can't really afford to keep being injured even if small injuries)...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
obelix67, true, the ones I have spoken to (some from the best reconstructive hopsital in the world, thanks to the IRA), fall into two camps on my injury. One camp says it will continue to get worse until my joint completely ceases up, and the other says that it will get slightly worse with time, due to wear and tear, but that it shouldn't be too bad.
The first lot are becoming fewer in number over the years, but they would like to remove my kneecap and cartilage for further examination. (no thanks, cause that would mean I'd need a ski pole to walk, and I really don't fancy that)
The second lot are interested in growing me a new cartilage, but are very interested in what happens when I exercise, and as such have tested me to see what helps and what hinders. Basically, high impact exercise is out (although when I do any they start talking in rather excited terms about operations and writing articles for the BMJ ). Low impact, such as cross trainer, cycling, stair climbers, or basically anything where my feet stay in permanent contact with a resistance, are OK. Rowing machines are allowed for short bursts, but I need to put most of the stress on my upper body. Running machines, jumping, or anything that involves jarring the knee joint, or putting unbalanced stress on it, is completely out.
I got the injury 15 years ago. Up until about 4 years ago, I needed a knee support and anti-inflamatories by day 2 on the slopes. With a good trainer, and a few more tests, I managed this year to make it to day 8 without too much pain, and that was with spending most of the time on my fat skis, which take more out of me.
If the docs work, along with the ski instructors and personal trainer, continues as well as it has gone over the last few years, I hope to get to about 12-14 days on snow without supports in a couple of years time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| little tiger wrote: |
| the whole point of using an unstable surface is to build support for the bad joint |
How do you manage to stand on an unstable surface, given your major balance problems you have told us about?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
