 Poster: A snowHead
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hi, im a 4th year student at abertay university, and i am currently doing my undergraduate dissertation on the ski decline in scotland.
I have a short questionairre of 11/12 questions, which i need filled in for my research,
if any very kind people would like to take 2 minutes to fill this in, could they please give me their email address, and i will send them it???
thank you please!!!!!!!!
jackie
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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jackie21, Welcome to Snowheads !
Would you count people living (just) North of Hadrian's wall as Honorary Scots ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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well do you ski in scotland regularly???
jackie
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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if you do, my email address is jackie_sey@yahoo.co.uk, email me and i will get back to you asap!!
thank you very much!
jackie
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
hi, im a 4th year student at abertay university, and i am currently doing my undergraduate dissertation on the ski decline in scotland.
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Does this not suggest that you are pre judging your survey?
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should you it not be weather decline ?
Scottish skiers are everywhere I go (abroad !) 
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Scottish skiers are everywhere I go (abroad !)
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And there are plenty of scottish skiers skiing in Scotland - I meet them all the time  - I'm sure there will be lots of Scottish based skiers at Cairngorm this weekend. I'm also pretty sure there won't be many English, Welsh, Irish etc. based skiers though. There has probably been a decline in skier numbers in Scotland, but this may well be due to the ease of travel abroad and a reduction in skiers coming from south of the boarder. There also are probably a lot less people who come for a whole week of skiing most will probably be fairly local like me who go for the day or at most the weekend. The other problem is perception. Scotland often has its best snow cover later in the year with good snow cover in March and April. I've been skiing at Cairngorm at easter and chatting to tourists who'd come up on the train who were surprised that there was any snow at all - some of whom were skiers. It can be a big problem - get good late season snow and the turnout compared to early season can often be poor. This means the insentive for the areas to keep the lifts open late in the season can be low - and you get a chicken and egg situation.
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brian
brian
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Paul Mason, and the percentage of Scottish voices on the slopes always increases in direct proportion to how bad the weather is, can't think why 
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and the percentage of Scottish voices on the slopes always increases in direct proportion to how bad the weather is, can't think why
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Perhaps that should be skiers who ski in scotland. You'd have noticed my yorkshire accent on the slopes in Vallandry last week. My English friends were commenting how bad the vis was when you could see at least two piste markers at all times and my goggles and glasses weren't misting up. I've been skiing in Scotland when I navigated by the sound of the diesel generators running the tows (Glenshee) and you could almsot ski faster up the slope with the wind than down the slope into the wind!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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[quote="Dave Horsley"]
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I've been skiing in Scotland when I navigated by the sound of the diesel generators running the tows (Glenshee) and you could almsot ski faster up the slope with the wind than down the slope into the wind! |
That is always one of my memories of scotland been at glenshee or glencoe (I forget which) and the vis dropping to 2 feet the siren going off to tell you all the get back, making our way to the drag that will take us over the the "home" side only to find its close due to winds and having to walk up the hill to get back then trying to ski down the other side aganst a wind thats tring to blow you back up the hill.
I know I should not say it but it was big fun 
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brian
brian
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| Dave Horsley wrote: |
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hi, im a 4th year student at abertay university, and i am currently doing my undergraduate dissertation on the ski decline in scotland.
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Does this not suggest that you are pre judging your survey? |
yes i am, i am out to prove that the industry is in a decline, and i know the reasons for this, but the aim of the diss is to find hard evidence to back up my theory!
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You know it makes sense.
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Lack of reliable snow, by any chance? Cheap flights to bigger and better mountains?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| laundryman wrote: |
| Lack of reliable snow, by any chance? Cheap flights to bigger and better mountains? |
I think that about sums it up.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lack of reliable snow, by any chance? Cheap flights to bigger and better mountains?
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The former has always been the case, but the latter is definitely true. There is also the perception factor. People are told by the media over and over that cos of global warming there is no snow, so even when the snow is good, particularly if it is the usuall late season snow that Scotland gets regularly they don't bother to come. Which is a shame as with the inernet it should be easier than ever to check on actual conditions before setting off.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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all of the things mentioned are getting investigated, i have costed a trip to aviemore and one to chamonix, both starting from edinburgh, and the chamonix one was actually cheaper overall, price including transport, accomodation, food, and lift pass, but without ski's and instruction! pretty mad!
but also looking at the RLC in general, and the problems that places like Aviemore face with trying to rejuvenate their destination
jackie
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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jackie - just thinking about your dissertation and I wonder if perhaps there's an opportunity to give it a more positve "spin" - I feel the resorts need ever bit of help they can get.
Regarding the decline, quite simply there is only one major factor and that's because the resorts can't open when there's no snow. When they don't open they can't generate income but are paying high operating costs to keep lifts maintained to a high safety standard and staff to do so.
This low number of opening days is down to one fact - not enough snow on ski runs - either due to higher seasonal temperature, lack of precipation when it is cold or high wind that scours the hills of snow. You will be able to gather meteorological data that tracks Scottish winter weather trends and contrast that against the 5 resorts financial performance - it's that simple.
Yes, there are other factors like cheaper European destinations - but believe me - we'd all be up in the highlands more (eg. midweek) long wkends etc. if we had great snow and we'd spend -pumping cash into resort and local economy.
I wonder if your dissertation could look at ways that the ski resorts could work round the core issue - what other income streams could they tap into, what are the issues/opportunities for non-snow reliant hobbies/sports/activities? - what do the European/US resorts do in the Summer which Scottish resorts might explore?
Just a thought - you might even get one of the kind resort Marketing staff to help you out - in return they get a copy of your dissertation - which could end up being pretty useful.
Best of luck in your studies.
David
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
This low number of opening days is down to one fact - not enough snow on ski runs - either due to higher seasonal temperature, lack of precipation when it is cold or high wind that scours the hills of snow. You will be able to gather meteorological data that tracks Scottish winter weather trends and contrast that against the 5 resorts financial performance - it's that simple.
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What other countries with poor snow records do is invest in snowmaking - Australia has been quoted as an example on Winterhighland. This winter CML for example would have been been able to open almost continuously scince December if it had a decent modern snowmaking system. If you don't believe me the Lecht with its minimal and antiquated snow making facilities has kept one of the beginner tows open (Robin) for 50 odd days this season and the Lecht is the lowest resort and the beginner runs are the lowest runs
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Yes, there are other factors like cheaper European destinations - but believe me - we'd all be up in the highlands more (eg. midweek) long wkends etc. if we had great snow and we'd spend -pumping cash into resort and local economy.
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Just out of interest dg3, how many days did you ski in Scotland last year? In particular were you up late February/early March last year when we had realy good cover and the elephant fence at Cairngorm was almost buried? Or how about the snow in December this season there were two really good midweek days blue skys and very good cover - I missed them as was busy at work 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ah the good ol Lecht 2090, I thought what 2090 nah it is way lower than that, but it is of course feet not meters.
Dave you should have been sick those days
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Dave you should have been sick those days
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I don't have problems taking days off whenever I want (within reason), providing the work gets done in a timely fashion. Unfortunately nature chose to place the two really good days in close proximity to the board meeting of the company that provides us with funding. I'm not sure the excuse of - I just had to go skiing - for the non apearance of a report for said board meeting would have gone down very well 
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Ah well thats grand, I am fortunately in the same position as an aside the first vehicle I wrote off was in 30cm of snow as I headed out the Westhill road on the 22nd of April 1984, just at the turn off for the Lang Stracht, I think that is closed now, I only go back for funerals and weddings, although there seems to be more of the former than latter.
1 more day at work then a weeks skiing.
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Dave Horsley, hi dave, probably got about 6 decent days - not much at all - bad combo of being v.busy at work when the decent snow was around. I love Scotland when it turns it on - but seems to be much less than in my youth - 80's when the Falkirk ski club bus trundeled up pretty much every sunday to various resorts
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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dg3, in response to your comments, i am looking into all the things you mentioned, however, my dissertation is not focused on how to get Scotlands resorts more successful, it is looking at why it has declined so much in the first place. However, i will keep what you said in mind, and i may look intocontacting marketing depts when im up in aviemore this weekend
jackie
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best of luck jackie - I did a very similar dissertation "a few years ago" and got some great help from Nevis Range - mine was about how a successful US ski resort compares - with an exploration of their customer focussed marketing strategies - and a great excuse to go skiing
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Nick_C wrote: |
| laundryman wrote: |
| Lack of reliable snow, by any chance? Cheap flights to bigger and better mountains? |
I think that about sums it up. |
I think that argument misses the point to a degree, because the Scottish Industry's core market is, and always has been local/day-trip market, though at the longer range of the day trip market, cheaper thus more frequent holidays to the Alps will for some reduce or even remove the desire for Day Trips.
What is worth considering about Cheap Flights, is the cost of transport to Europe and once you are there, compared to the very high costs of transport within the UK. Something is wrong when you can fly from Glasgow to the Alps for less than it costs in Petrol to drive to CairnGorm.
That such a situation exists is down to UK taxation policy, and the cost of internal transport within the UK can't be ignored because it has an effect of reducing the distance range at which people are prepared to make day or short stay trips, reduces frequency of trips, high travel costs also puts up the conditions threshold at which people consider it worthwhile to travel (all reducing Skier Days). The high taxation on fuel and transport affects every aspect of the operation of the Ski Areas as well due to their rural location, and while on the subject of Tax, there is VAT!!
The UK alone in the EU imposes VAT on ski uplift, no other means of public transport is treated in this way even in the UK. Not only do the Scottish Areas have to operate in what is a challenging weather climate for operating a ski area, they also operate in the most hostile tax/financial climates for Ski Areas in the EU.
Remove the VAT and a near 20% reduction in lift pass prices would make things look much more attractive relative to Alpine prices, or if lift passes were maintained at current levels provide significant help in making the areas profitable, thus providing funds to make much needed investment in infrastructure and facilities. Since 2000, we're talking about Millions of pounds taken from the industry that wouldn't have been elsewhere in the EU, and we wouldn't now be seeing lifts ripped off CairnGorm.
Foot and Mouth Disease can't be ignored either, it's overlooked because the Ski Areas were not shut down (thanks to the Scottish Executive seeing sense and ignoring MAFF's demands for such action). However 'the do not enter the countryside' Armageddon propaganda from MAFF had a devastating effect on participation in outdoor sports across the UK, and plays a significant part in explaining the POOR skier day figures for 2001 relative to conditions. The fact is that not only did it remove significant income in 2001 which would have helped see areas through subsequent lean seasons, many that stopped participating in outdoor sports in 2001 have never returned. Farming was given huge financial aid, but the outdoor sports industry which is a vital component in the rural economy in many areas took a direct hit, and has never received support on any meaningful scale, despite that industry being an innocent victim in the crises.
The industry is also not helped by the fact there are groups who actively seek to end mechanised snowsports in Scotland. Variable snow patterns fit with climate cycles, and do not in themselves explain the decline in skier days. Even under the UKCIP's worst warming scenario by 2080, winters would be like 88/89, but even that year skier day figures were well ahead of what has been achieved in recent winters which were considerably better than 88/89.
There are many many factors and the situation is complex, but taxation issues and climate both are factors. The real problem is that both create a catch 22 situation, that have helped drive down skier day figures, that mean it's not possible for the areas to get the investment needed to drive the skier day figures back up.
You should also look at the management of the industry and the advise given to it by the powers to be to diversify. On the face of it, diversifying seems to be sensible, but the demise of the Glenshee Chairlift Company came about in part because it did diversify, it sunk what capital it could raise into the Golf Course, when perhaps it would have been better spent on addressing fundamental infrastructure issues at Glenshee and also on upgrading facilities/capacity at Glencoe.
At no other Scottish Area has the downwards trend in Skier Days been more marked than at CairnGorm, and while the 'Gorm did haver a higher proportion of holiday trade than the other areas this alone doesn't explain the difference. Given that Glenshee posted a higher Skier Day figure in 2001 than CairnGorm did, means the massive slump from 1994 to 2001 in Gorm skier days also can't be entirely down to FMD. Basically I would suspect, and if you could survey past Scottish Skiers who no longer ski here, I think there would be strong evidence of this, that the biggest factor in the decline of snowsports at CairnGorm Mountain since the mid 90s onwards is CML itself.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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i have to admit, im a ski "virgin"! but planning on having a go when im up there at the weekend, if its snowy, and if i get enough people to fill in my q/aire early!!!
jackie
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jackie21,
You can pm the q'aire to me and I'll fill it out.
Snow this weekend should be reasonable - I should be telemarking at Cairngorm on Saturday, though may head off over the back if the weather is good. If we get enough snow I may be nordic racing on Sunday.
Do you know that there are a couple of scottish specific sites eg www.winterhighland.com and http://www.highland-instinct.co.uk/
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You know it makes sense.
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Dave Horsley, good luck if you end up racing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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obelix67, Unfortunatley its been cancelled - the snow for nordic has been very poor this year so far after a promising start in November. There is some snow in the forest at them moment - enough to ski on just, but not enough for racing
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dave Horsley, fortunately I have between 40 cm and 350cm to choose from for next weeks vacation
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Stevo, Having been brought up in the Highlands of Scotland it is far better to see those folk from the south (almost everyone) - venturing through the mountains with too much equipment rather than too little. We do want you to come back and continue to spend money in the region rather than being shipped back in body bags / coffins. All the same just because a day starts off +10C doesnt mean it might not drop in temp and start dumping snow in the afternoon.
I lived in Orkney for a few years and a local saying was if you dont like the weather wait half an hour.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hi jackie21, did you make it upto Scotland at the weekend and go skiing. Was at Cairngorm myself on Saturday for a bit of ice skating in the ptarmigan bowl and down the traverse. Didn't see Tony or any of his colleagues on the slopes - he must have kept to the hotel and conference all weekend . Another reminder how much harder the skiing is in Scotland than on the continent! Perfectly adequate telemarking down reds and blacks at LesArc - useless on the Ciste fairway and M1 at Cairngorm.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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dave horsley - i live in scotland! yeah made it up to cairngorm on sat, and i must say, very impressed with the number of friendly skiers willing to fill in my q/aire! (think it helped that there was a big que and no where to go!!!)
i will hopefully be publishing my dissertation on this website once completed!
jackie
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jackie21,
How about the skiing? Though saturday wouldn't have been the easiest day to have a go if you are a beginner
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