Raising the bar

A snowHead

Raising the bar....literally

It's not often that I get to use the word 'literally'. I started being pedantic about it when I heard a young person on the radio say, of reading the last chapter of a novel: '...my heart exploded...literally....'. Er...no it didn't.

But I digress.

Right ... I have taught my two youngsters to raise the safety bar (sicherheitsbugel) of the chairlift only when the safety net appears under the chair. This is good practice I think. This means getting ready, taking your feet off the footrest, then making sure you are grasping the bar, raise it about 4 metres from the get-off-point. Simple. Or maybe not.

But then people wrestle with my kids by trying to raise the bar 100m out from the top station. Why on earth do these people do it?

Some have said to me '...well, there can be someone dozy enough not to take their skis/board off the footrest, so you need to sort it all out early and raise the bar...'. Another has said '...doing it so late means lots of flapping about and that can be dangerous...'. And so on.

But I just don't get this whole raising the bar really early thing. It takes some people by surprise and that's dangerous in it's own right. Some even start shuffling to the front of the seat, and if my kids are sitting next to them if they fall, I genuinely worry that in falling but trying to save themselves they might grab onto one of my small ones and take her or him with them.

And it's not just youths which do it. Every age and gender seems prone to it. But I see no material difference in convenience, speed of getting off chair, etc by actually waiting until things are safe. Sometimes it is indeed youths, and I have seen early bar raising combined with idiotic ar++ing about.

So should we raise the bar by ... er ... not raising the bar?......

A snowHead

Safety net? Don’t recall ever seeing that. I tend to raise earlier rather than later, especially on bigger chairs with unknown people. Not mega early, and I only shuffle in last couple of metres.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@valais2, I'm half with you. 100m out is too soon, but I think leaving it until you are above the safety netting is quite late. Personally, I tend to raise the bar when I get to the last pylon which, helpfully, tends to have a sign on it telling you to 'raise the bar'. Very Happy

Lacking a helpful instruction from Herr DoppelMayr then I'd settle on about 15-20m out, at a guess. People do forget to get their feet off the footrest and I really can't be bothered to try and explain to an Austrian that I would like him to remove his feet from the footrest, but not raise the bar. Raising the bar at the last pylon doesn't take people by surprise, but a mad scramble in the last five seconds might well do.

I'm afraid you might be out of step with everyone else on this one.

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@valais2, agree with you. I usually have my pack on (I am bad) and had a rather unpleasant experience a few years ago, so I raise the bar at the last minute.

And I keep my feet on until I have to.

Makes it tricky to force an early lift

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

What about lowering the bar? I know that snowploughing down a blue track is a very gnarly experience and people need to carry airbags, shovels, probes and wear a big helmet with a tw@t cam sticking off the top of it to record their extreme adventures for the benefit of their youtube public but they really should learn to duck their heads a bit quicker when they sit down.

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@valais2, I'm with you too. In fact I was told by an instructor in Morzine that they are expected to set an example by not lifting the bar until they are over the net.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@valais2, I'm with you. That is, I'll raise the bar later, normally just before the sign. Main reason I think is because I'm not a fan of heights and don't enjoy hanging in the air 100+ meters out from the end of the lift.

It's easy enough to enforce because you can just play it dumb and leave your feet on the foot bar until you're happy/comfortable with the distance away from the departure, if questioned you didn't hear them wink

Or take it slow with actually taking your feet off.

Haven't had a real problem with it, if anything I find more often others aren't ready, that is have their feet off in time, even if you are late raising the bar.

Also, regardless of how early it's raised, you can't go anywhere, so it might as well stay down.

After all it is free

Another one to raise late, never understood why people feel the need to raise it a long distance ahead of the station. Most lifts slow down in the station anyway so you have loads of time to sort stuff out even if you leave the bar until you're over the net (if there is one). Sometimes I've been on lifts where people raise the bar really early and then the lift gets stopped, which swings the chair forward. I don't think anything untoward would happen, but it doesn't feel very nice and there's no point in it.

I tend to take my feet off in good time, but hate it when people raise the bar over a big drop.

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@Hurtle, +1. I hold the bar down till it is safe to lift it

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Hmmmm - I’ve never thought i was an early bar lifter, but it seems that I’m the one out of step. As I say, I just raise when the sign tells me to.

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What @@SnoodlesMcFlude, says. Isn't that the whole point of detachable chairlifts? Fast getting you up, nice and slow when it comes to getting off.
There's even some automated ones these days - much consternation when I couldn't pull the bar down as soon as I was sat down!
(I was on my own on that chair)

The new st Espirit lift in Les Arcs locks the bar down until the last possible moment, which I admit is very annoying if you have trapped some clothing under it or want to reajust your poles etc.

You know it makes sense.

@under a new name, ...uh oh...now you're starting the 'pack on' - 'pack off' lift discussion. Almost a fist fight between a pisteur and an ESS instructor at Toula over this... 'enleve le sac..'' .. 'non' ... 'ENLEVE le sac' ... 'NON'... 'ENLEVE LE SAC!!!!' .... 'NON . *&V^^^!!!!' ....

Much gesticulation ....

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

Surely the clue as to when to raise the bar is that the signs telling you to do so are normally just a few metres before the seat disembarkation point. I've only seen signs on the last pylon confirming the bar raising point is still 10-30 metres away.
A further clue is that the newer lifts with an automatic bar locking mechanism only releases at the very last moment. Some other newer chair lifts have a lighting system on the entrance into the lift station which changes from red to green just a few metres before the disembarkation point.
There is a current topic on this forum about chairlift problems where a SnowHead describes the motor gearing suddenly jamming and the lift coming to an abrupt stop and it being enough to have thrown him out of the chair if the bar had been raised!
I believe it to be potentially dangerous to raise the bar if the drop below the lift is still more than a metre or so to the ground.
However, I agree that people not removing their feet from the foot-rest bar in good time makes me wonder if they have forgotten they are coming into the station!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Bar raising isn't the real issue. The paranoid twunts who slam the bar down before everyone is properly seated however Twisted Evil

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@Mr Marmot, ...blimey...someone's thought that one through...

...last weekend, owing to the massive Velcro-based belt on my Ortovox pack, having left the belt open and dangling, I managed to Velcro myself to the furry-surface bench in the Violettes gondola....prat...what can go wrong, does go wrong....

...much cursing and exit just as the gondola was making its turn back to the valley....

Very undignified.

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@Mr Marmot, my impression of that product was that whilst it makes complying with the backpacks off rule a doddle the high strength cables would seem to make the consequence of becoming entangled no less serious (potentially more so?)

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Or for those that prefer the cheaper option https://www.decathlon.co.uk/fs-500-23l-reverse-backpack-black-id_8368380.html?_cclid=v3_9db5832d-2f52-5f27-a31d-e5fafb8ce961&gclid=CjwKCAiA5OrTBRBlEiwAXXhT6LPj3o_7ikmqTunkjY3TI869r1gCKsI9uQBPpRW1iyspsCKFTjCk_BoCPS8QAvD_BwE

After all it is free

@valais2,

Yeah. I saw a guy with one in the Dolomites last week. I could hardly believe what I was seeing!

The real snazzy thing is that when you depart the lift you drop the rucksack to the side and then pull on a belt on the front that pulls it back into position onto your back in one smooth motion. The guy did it as he slid off the lift and immediately skied down the piste without stopping. It was all very James Bond Very Happy

@Dave of the Marmottes, ...absolutely. I always shout ' ca va?' Or '....okaaaay...'

But...

Yes, there are bustards who just yank it down without thought - I have a couple of marks on my helmet from people bringing the bar down before I have even settled on the bench; and a woman last time who was well-thumped on the back of the neck by the bar on a 6-pack, brought down by a muscle-bound twit....

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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

A parent is responsible for their offspring. They can’t rely on others since some are selfish others altruistic. Or incapable.
Thus rather than rely on others surely the job of the parent should be to ensure kid can deal with the variety of situations on a chair they will undoubtedly and arguably sadly encounter? At least if they wish their genes to carry on? Just saying... Toofy Grin

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I raise it when I see the sign to raise it. Bad things often happen if you raise it too late.

I grew up skiing in the US where most people don't use the safety bar. Often you have to ask others on the lift if you can lower the bar. Crazy, huh? Especially with slippery vinyl seats.

One thing with those detachable six/eight packs -- sometimes the bar automatically raises, sometimes it automatically unlocks. Can be confusing as everyone's expecting it to raise itself but doesn't.

When lowering and raising the bar, best to ask others if they're ready. Simple courtesy. "OK?" works in most places.

You know it makes sense.

@suec, ...indeed they are. And since they were tiny, my two have been taught mountain safety awareness - they climbed to over 3000m in the Alps at 8 and 10, and started skiing at 2 and an half. They never ski solo on the hill, but are trusted (at 12 and 14) to ski unaccompanied by adults. They are expected to be 'ambassadors' of their coaches' ski school when they ski without adults. But of course they can find themselves on chairs without an accompanying adult and while we have talked to them about how to deal with other skiers who are doing wacky things, it can be hard for them sometimes if the adults are belligerent.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Many of the lifts in Skiwelt are automatic and they open very late which confuses everyone as to whether they will actually open at all snowHead

A snowHead

Honestly can't understand why people find chairlifts so difficult. Boggles the mind.

I witnessed a an ESF toddler (they were loading the ski school on 1 by 1, with the liftie at the bottom saying to look after the kids) fall off the Arpette chair in Les Arcs because the adult skier let the bar go up waaay to soon - that's a fall onto rocks and then a steep fall back down when you're almost at the top. luckily the guy was able to grab her bib and hang on and the liftie able to reach out once close enough to grab her. Queue lots of profanity and the liftie seemed read to knock the guy out.

I do what I usually do and assume everyone is an idiot and either keep a foot on the rest or a hand to stop the bar coming down too early.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I.leave my feet.on the rests until.happy.for the bar to be raised😁

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@haigie, @t4tomo, ...thanks Haggie, I too have seen close shaves like that...hence the original post ... the foot thing is interesting, what we found was that this was fine for an adult or older child, but when they were smaller, their legs were too short to do this as a tactic. Some parents instruct small ones to sit back on chairs - interestingly I think that this is exactly the wrong thing to do with tiny ones - sitting back means that their hips and legs go forward, causing them to be less safe - it shifts their c of g way forward. With slippery Gore Tex trousers on icy seats, slipping small ones (who often seemingly weirdly do not react when they start falling) is a genuine risk. By contrast, what we taught them to do from two onwards was to lean their arms OVER the safety bar, which has the effect of shifting their hips and c of g way far further back on the seat - much safer. This has also helped with the raising-the-bar-too-early syndrome.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

The green light is there for a reason. Raise the bar when you see the green light. Not complicated at all.

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@queen bodecia, ...er...sorry...green light? Is this an Austrian thing?

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@valais2, at the chairlift exit there is a horizontal strip of lights, red on one side, green on the other. When you are close enough to see the green lights it is safe to open the bar. I think even the older style chair lifts have been retro-fitted with these now.

After all it is free

I'm fairly laid back about when to raise or lower the bar, but did get in a flap many years ago while skiing with 2 mates.

We'd hit the Apres ski pretty hard all week, and the Apres Apres ski, and the Apres dinner etc etc, so by the end of the week we had a fairly big sleep deficit. So cue the 3 of us arriving at the top of a chair lift, and realising that one mate's skis were still on the foot rest. For some reason he ignored us when we asked him to remove them - it took us a minute to realise he was sound asleep! And not easily woken. Ever since then I've been fairly relaxed if the bar is a bit late to go up.

@valais2, yes it is an austrian thing. never seen it anywhere else

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It also depends what type of chair you are on. With a detachable chair you can leave it until the chair is in the lift station. Fixed grips are a different kettle of fish... but I won't be riding any of those in the Ski Amade snowHead

Help!!

Raising the bar

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