 Poster: A snowHead
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Ciao guys,
Gonna save up over the summer for some new skis and just after some onions.
Me: 31 yrs old - 75kg - Level 8 on Inside Out scale - like to go reasonably fast on piste - live in Chamonix but work full time so get around 40 ski days per winter - enjoy off piste and looking to improve in this area following significant improvements this season with some lessons, probably 60/40 piste/off
My current skis: 2014 Rossi Experience 88. Not bad but find them very wobbly at speed nowadays and not super confidence inspiring. Need a fair bit of speed to turn in anything above ankle deep powder. Get knocked about in chop as well.
What I want: Something all mountainy 100cm or so that I will probably mount frame bindings on for the occasional tour (unless I win the lottery and get the new Shifts). Stable and easy to get edge to edge rather than playful necessarily. I'm too old to learn tricks (convince me otherwise...I've still got it right...) Decent float in powder. I realise that with all mountain skis you're getting a jack of all trades, master of none.
Skis I've tested:
Blizzard Bonafide 172cm 2018 - Had them during a lesson and liked them. Can't remember many details but easier to handle off piste than my current skis. A contender if I see them cheap.
Volkl Mantra (the new ones for 2019, during a test in Morzine, can't remember length) - Good at speed on piste and can carve beautifully but very planky otherwise and difficult to manoeuvre at slower speeds. Not a huge fan. Didn't have any off piste to try them in.
Blizzard Rustler 10 2018 can't remember length - Weird. Backsteated me loads and chucked me off fairly regularly in some decent powder. Might have me just being sh*t that day or unusual binding mountain position. Not a fan.
Black Crows Navis 179cm - awesome, my favourite so far. Stable at speed on piste, carves well and was nice and manoeuvrable off piste. Currently in the lead.
Black Crows Vertis 175cm - bit narrow for what I'm after but just though I'd put a mini review for reference. Amazing piste ski, best I've ever skied. So quick edge to edge and super stable. If I can ever afford a quiver this will be my pistey number.
Skis I wanted to test but didn't get to:
Nordica Enforcer 100 - Gets rave reviews and seems to fit my brief. Slick looking things as well (if I'm dropping 500 quid I want them to be pretty)
Volkl 90eight - Again, reviews well and seems a bit lighter and easier to deal with than the Mantra which I found a bit stiff.
Suppose I'm just wondering if anyone can give me some info on whether the two skis I wanted to try but couldn't fit the bill and how they compare to the Navis which is currently in the lead. If there's any other contender leaping out I haven't mentioned I'm all ears. Would prefer to avoid Dynastar solely because everyone in Cham has them and I'm contrary ( I realise this also applies to Black Crows but they're prettier...).
Merci buckets all, hope everyone had a good season!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Crikey, for once (!) a sensible "what ski" request.
I'm slightly surprised (as a very happy 2017 Bonafide owner, previously on 2010 Mantras) that the new Mantra M5 didn't impress. That said, it's getting some Marmite reviews. But from all I am told and read, in principle it ought to be a little easier to handle than the Bonafides. I wonder if there was a tune/edge issue going on?
((Wobbly Rossis could indicate a stance/balance issue?))
Concept had 90Eights this season and while I found them a little soft/easy they were very nice and had that usual Völkl feel of quality. I would definitely take them for a spin when the snow returns (or indeed, this weekend if you can be bothered). A bit like a softer Mantra, indeed.
I wanted to try the Enforcers but none of my tame shops had them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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C'est possible regarding the Mantras. It was only about 1.5 hrs on them on hardpack so not a super definitive test. I just felt the Bonafides were friendlier but obviously there are a lot of variables involved.
Concept has 90eights and Enforcers but they were always out when I asked about them. If I get up GM this weekend I'll try to grab some. This is my last shot though as I'm away for work after that so will miss the closing party.
Probably right about the Rossi's as well. It's actually going fast on flats/straight lines that worries me the most, the tip of one ski is all over the place which has led to some unexpected crashes. I suspect it has something to do with an edge smash that the guy at Concept did some tutting and head shaking over and told me to only use it as my left ski thereafter. Not so bad when turning and fine off piste when its not deep.
Cheers
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You describe 60/40 On piste / off piste. Skiing as much as you do, trying to find a single ski to do all doesn't make massive sense too me.
Have you tried Whitedot? They're usually in Chamonix, and may offer you a rather tempting deal on ex test fleet skis. I find their skis rather excellent off piste.
On piste... Wide skis hold an edge excellently these days, but that's about it. They don't really perform like a dedicated on piste ski, so it's a compromise. I'd suggest to try some proper piste skis, and deals can be found end of season quite easily.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd love to have several skis for each occasion but unfortunately finances simply won't allow it. I'm keeping the Rossi's for when it hasn't snowed for a while or is icy. I don't need a slalom/short turn type piste ski really. To be honest I think people can get a little precious about their 'quiver' and a lot of 'single-quiver' all mountain skis will do just fine for everything I'm likely to ski (at least for the foreseeable future)
Haven't seen Whitedot anywhere in Chamonix? Think there might be a place in Argentiere that has them though. They seem a little out of my budget anyway tbh, even 2nd hand. End of season prices seem outrageous this year, compared with the braderie last year for instance.
Cheers though, I'll keep an eye out for them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Meltus, Echo Base is where you'll find Whitedot. Not sure about second hand/ex-demo – you can always ask... Alternatively, if you find a model you like, post on here in the Buy/Sell section, they're always cropping up.
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Think your shortlist is pretty good and the one you like of those will do you fine for everything you want to do.
I suspect the right Whitedot to consider is the Director probably want the extra sidecut over a R98 that would be another option.
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@Meltus, not sure if you’ve seen the Chamonix buy and sell page on Facebook? Worth a look if you’re not fussy about the skis being new.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Definitely worth trying the 90Eight. I have the original first season version of this ski, which are an excellent all-rounder and one of the best everyday skis I've owned, actually the best really. They are totally undemanding, but yet have great edge hold when you ask and don't flap around. It's one of those rare skis that you can ski however you feel like and they just go along with it. Unlike most other skis I've owned, I've never gone out on the 90Eights and wished I was on a different ski because of the conditions or terrain (that's not to say they are the best ski in any specific condition, but they don't ever hold you back from having fun). But it's worth noting that the current version was slightly beefed up underfoot and gets even better reviews than the original construction. Otherwise, my shortlist for a do-it-all ski would be pretty much identical to yours.
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Cheers all, sounds like I'm on the right track then.
@BobinCH I always keep a weather eye on the Cham buy and sell page. In fact, despite my 'no dynastar' rule there's a pair of 2015 Cham 97 High Mountain on there with Salomon Guardian 13 bindings for 200 euro which seems like a mighty fine deal. Tempted...
I'll try to get out on Sunday and see if Concept have the 90eights in for me to try as well.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sounds like the Enforcer 100 will be right up your street. Really brilliant ski!
But @Ronald is right. Better two get two cheapo pairs, whether second hand or in the sales now or in October.
Definitely possible to get two pairs for €5-600 here: https://www.sport-bittl.com/en/skiing--freeski-telemark-skis/
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Meltus, echoing the 2nd hand route the Sallanches bourse aux skis can sometimes yield some remarkable bargains despite you hunting in the hot zone, as it were ...
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I have Enforcer 100s
Definitely the best all-round ski I have owned.
Wish they were a bit lighter for skinning but the extra weight seems to be one of the reasons why they are so good.
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You know it makes sense.
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Hi guys,
I must admit I remain a little dubious that I can get two sets of skis and bindings for the price of one, even with sales. Thanks for the sport-bittl link though! Looking at it, any skis I might want are still 400 yoz on their own unfortunately.The Cham bourse was rubbish though I have heard the Sallanches one is better.
People suggesting two sets, are you meaning a slim piste ski and a fuller figured powder ski? I'm not sure that's for me to be honest given the an average lift-served ski day in Chamonix will see me on piste, in crud, in moguls and in powder all within a couple of hours of each other. Changing skis or wishing I was in another pair doesn't appeal (plus I don't really have the wonga) when I could have one set that handles everything as well as it's within my ability to tell. I appreciate the suggestions though, thanks. If I were to get another ski it'd be a dedicated touring setup I think.
I think a bonafide, navis, 90eight or enforcer will see me happy so I'll see if any turn up cheap anywhere. Got all summer so no rush, plenty of Swedes abandoning Cham and flogging their gear 
I also have loads of Black Crows stickers which I'd feel stupid putting anywhere if I didn't have the skis... 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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dynasty legend 96, lightish and very good on and off piste
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Meltus, the Cham bourse was rubbish this year. Was much better previously. Sallanches is (in my exp) enormous.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Meltus, if you're handy with some hand tools, you may not need two pairs of bindings to use two pairs of skis. Or even any new bindings at all, depending on what you currently have. Quiver killers are rather a great invention, and should work on any "flat" (non rail binding) ski.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Meltus, see if you can try those Cham 97´s. If they work it would leave you some change if something else comes up next season - I’d be looking out for something wider if I were you.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Meltus, I'm inclined to agree with your search for a single ski quiver. Many people who've not skied Chx do not realise just what a pain in the back bottom it is to try and swap skis during the day, it's not like ski resorts where you can pop into the hotel at lunch time... it involves overcrowded buses and probably a bit of a walk as well.
I have to say that this season I did a week in Cham and my Whitedot Preachers really did cut it as a single ski quiver. Very useable in powder, very agile on hard stuff. They're a 112 underfoot but they feel more like a 98 or something around that. Big sidecut makes them ski well on piste. Honestly I would strongly recommend you get on a pair if you can - I'm sure if you PM @midgetbiker he'll sort you out a demo in Cham.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Like DP I also have and love Whitedot Preachers, however I've now gone to Whitedot R.98s as my favoured one ski quiver - I think a better all round option especially where icy conditions are prevalent but still effective on powder. Someone else mentioned Whitedot Directors. The Directors are more rockered compared to the trad camber of the R.98s. it all comes down to preference but get down to Echo Base in La Praz and try the Whitedot range
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Someone else mentioned Whitedot Directors. The Directors are more rockered compared to the trad camber of the R.98s. it all comes down to preference but get down to Echo Base in La Praz and try the Whitedot range
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that was me but I meant Preachers 
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I'd go personally for something in our new descent series, the 114 is really useable and the 94 pretty damn versatile.
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Yeah get him on the 114 ASBOs. Makes an old bloke think he's Candide so can only assume a young whipper can snap knicker elastic at 100m.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Yeah get him on the 114 ASBOs. Makes an old bloke think he's Candide so can only assume a young whipper can snap knicker elastic at 100m. |
Like the sound of those! More details?
Sound like DPS - a local option for half the price would be seriously tempting!
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Rocker camber rocker ski in trad construction. Progressive mount really makes them come alive. @midgetbiker was also going to propose a SAGA mounting point for himself.
@the doc will have details
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Rocker camber rocker ski in trad construction. Progressive mount really makes them come alive. @midgetbiker was also going to propose a SAGA mounting point for himself. |
"Erm, I'll just shift these along a bit..."
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ah sorry guys, seem to always be down a crevasse these days! We've got two initial skis in this series for next season, a 94 and 114mm wide, with a 104mm in the works for the following. Size spread for the 94mm is 185/176/167cm, rocker camber rocker profile with a less dramatic rocker profile than our skis in the past, designed to be more versatile and hard snow friendly.
I skied the 94 and 114 most of last season, if you're not intimidated by big skis the 114 is a relatively versatile ride, fun on everything apart from boiler plate days. Everything is scaled up as you got wider in the range; the rocker profile, turn radius, sizes available, camber gets progressively less (2mm for the 114, 4mm for the 94).
My personal pick of the bunch is the 114 187cm, 2mm camber, twin rocker, mount point -5cm behind centre, 23.5m radius and what I'd describe as a mid-stiff flex.
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@the_doc, or as evidenced in the photo above -6 or -7 cm if you've given a pair to your grandad
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You know it makes sense.
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Whoohoo im now officially out of the crevasse, thanks Admin! As for th mount point, mine are at -2cm 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Rocker camber rocker ski in trad construction. Progressive mount really makes them come alive. |
| the_doc wrote: |
| My personal pick of the bunch is the 114 187cm, 2mm camber, twin rocker, mount point -5cm behind centre, 23.5m radius and what I'd describe as a mid-stiff flex. |
I like the sound of those, I was pretty much fixed on a pair of 112 Wailers after testing them this season, but these sound like a worthy contender to try.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@the_doc, can you post a link to the 114 please? I am being a bit thick, not able to see them on site
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| fixx wrote: |
| The 114 would be too wide for me, but if it skis the same, I'm sure it's awesome. |
I can confirm that the 114 is indeed awesome, and I am hoping to have a pair this season coming to replace my Preachers (which suffered an unfortunate accident).
My Ragnaroks are great fun but are very stiff and chargey, the 114s are much more playful, nimble and a whilst definitely a bit more leisurely, they just inspire playful and slightly rash behaviour.
Hence the EOSB 'Whitedot Club' recommended to Whitedot that the 114 should be marketed as the "ASBO", whilst the 94 should be marketed as the "Delinquent".
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| mishmash wrote: |
| ........Will it come in a Carbonlite construction? |
No, trad only as part of WD's 'frontside' line-up.
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@the_doc, seeing the new stuff on here would be great but I suspect you will have a large audience berating you for the choice of plain white top sheets... Carl gave a lucky few the sneak peak of the 2019 catalogue and that's basically all that happened.
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@dp, shhh, it's a purposely designed sticker deck remember? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| dp wrote: |
| @the_doc, seeing the new stuff on here would be great but I suspect you will have a large audience berating you for the choice of plain white top sheets... Carl gave a lucky few the sneak peak of the 2019 catalogue and that's basically all that happened. |
That's fine, we've always been contentious!
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@the_doc, has my signature model Preacher made the 2019 catalogue? That is, where one of the skis is supplied in 2 bits
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FAQ
I have absolutely no need of it, and it's heavier than I would normally go for, but I 
It's a mad downhill charger. The 114 would be too wide for me, but if it skis the same, I'm sure it's awesome.