 Poster: A snowHead
|
Not really an injury, more a minor frustration. I’ve only skied at the CF so far. Normally do a minimum of 4 hours at a time. Have no problems with aches or pains whilst skiing or on the days afterwards. However, I’m finding that I quiet often get cramp in bed the night after skiing. It’s not cramp of the calf or thigh or under feet; it’s cramp of the muscle down the outside side of my shin. Sometimes the tendon where it joins my ankle is so tight with cramp you could play a tune on it.
My boots are really comfortable and I have custom insoles.
Anyone got any suggestions on how to avoid night cramps. Cheers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Not had cramp where you describe, but to avoid calf cramps after skiing I spend 5-10 minutes gently stretching the muscles - usually after a warm shower. A gentle walk around the resort can also help. If I do neither I will frequently get cramp later in the evening, particularly when sitting as the muscles are more relaxed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
My Gran suffered cramp at night and kept sugar cubes beside the bed, which she took when it struck...possibly Old Wives tale, but she swore by it.
My Uncle, who was in the SAS during WW2, said to take a little salt.
I can't comment on the effectiveness of either.
I think the above reply is the better solution.
- Use foam roller on calves and press on the trigger points on shin (while rolling your foot round in circles)...as well as stretching.
You can also press on the trigger points of your calf, by resting the leg being worked on, on the knee cap of the other (while seated). It huts like hell, but can be very effective.
- Use tennis ball on the underside of the feet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Salt is the answer and has worked for myself in pain suddenly hopping around like mad from hamstring cramping at 3 am .
I dont know if salt disolved in water is quicker I just eat the salt asp .
Is it your Anterior Tibialis and AT tendon ?
You might be able to tell by lifting your toe towards your knee thats the AT contracting next too your shin bone .
Mine are so tight I had a operation too open the muscle sheath and still struggle to stretch them well enough .
Stretching and increasing strenght in the AT is important for ankle flexion needed for skiing snowboarding .
..
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 7-01-18 20:15; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Awdbugga, magnesium is your friend! I suffer from cramp regularly, taking Mg has really, really helped. The Mg oil spray is particularly effective if used regularly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| motyl wrote: |
I also haven't experienced cramp in these muscles (yet  ) but I have found that using a lacrosse ball to apply pressure on various leg muscles even as far up as the glutes can help release tightness and minimise or avoid cramp altogether. I do this in the evening.
I speculate that it might help you to do this on the calves, with a focus on the outside, but it might be that hamstrings or quads or even your feet are also playing a part in this. I go searching for tight areas and hot spots (i.e. painful points) and work on those wherever I find them.
In the past I have tried all sorts of "treatments" when calf cramps struck in the middle of the night - salt, sugar, magnesium, lots of fluids - nothing made any difference, but in the end I found that strangely, it was certain shoes that triggered it. Prevention and cure was working the fascia both in the soles and on top of my feet.
Do you tense up your feet when you ski or are they relaxed? You should be able to wriggle your toes. Though it could be excess tension elsewhere... Sorry - I'm no expert!  |
I know, it's a weird place to get cramp. I used to do all sorts of sports when younger and used to occasionally get cramp in a calf muscle or thigh; but never until recently have I had it on the front of my leg, running down the outside of my shin. It doesn't last long, but it's enough to wake me and have me out of bed trying to sort it.
The weirdest place I ever got cramp was in my pecs. At the end of a full day's cross country skiing in the mountains we had a fun 200 metre sprint relay. I'd just completed my leg, tagged my mate and raised my arms to straighten my bobble hat; only for both pectoral muscles to cramp up instantly. Never had it before, and thankfully never had it since. Thought I was having a heart attack. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| homphomp wrote: |
| @Awdbugga, magnesium is your friend! I suffer from cramp regularly, taking Mg has really, really helped. The Mg oil spray is particularly effective if used regularly. |
Cheers, I'll give it a go.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@Awdbugga, hope it helps...shin cramps are painful! Do take it daily, just a couple of missed doses and my feet etc are excruciating! I've already measured out enough to take on my next ski holiday.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
I second both Magnesium and salt and top up on both regularly. My crampy calves have pretty much disappeared since I started taking Magnesium supplements.
For magnesium, be careful what preparation you get. Magnesium Glycinate is the best but the most common is magnesium oxide. Mg oxide is a laxative! Mg glycinate is almost fully absorbed in the stomach so although it's more expensive, it's also much more effective in smaller doses.
For salt, I find the quickest fix is 1-2 tablespoons of soy sauce. A natural soy sauce (like Kikkoman) has exceptionally high sodium chloride levels but unlike salt water, won't make you sick.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Raceplate wrote: |
I second both Magnesium and salt and top up on both regularly. My crampy calves have pretty much disappeared since I started taking Magnesium supplements.
For magnesium, be careful what preparation you get. Magnesium Glycinate is the best but the most common is magnesium oxide. Mg oxide is a laxative! Mg glycinate is almost fully absorbed in the stomach so although it's more expensive, it's also much more effective in smaller doses.
For salt, I find the quickest fix is 1-2 tablespoons of soy sauce. A natural soy sauce (like Kikkoman) has exceptionally high sodium chloride levels but unlike salt water, won't make you sick. |
Reluctant to take salt as it pushes up blood pressure. I’ve never suffered from high blood pressure and would like to keep it that way if I can. Happy to try Magnesium though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Awdbugga wrote: |
| Reluctant to take salt as it pushes up blood pressure. I’ve never suffered from high blood pressure and would like to keep it that way if I can. |
Don't particularly want to start an argument but there's plenty of conflicting evidence these days that salt only affects blood pressure in people that are pre-disposed to being affected, about 1% of the population.
I remember looking up some world stats before self-medicating and the Japanese, who have one of the highest salt intakes because of their sushi/soy diet, do not have high blood pressure problems. Seems more likely that high blood pressure is caused by being overweight, which the Japanese are not.
For me, living in the Middle East, I'm sure that particularly in the summer I have low salt levels due to the residual dehydration of the environment. Constant sweating outside, dehydrating aircon inside. Any Arab will tell you to "eat salt!" to stop cramp.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
When you sleep at night, you de-hydrate. When you pee first thing in the morning, your urine will be the darkest it is during the day. Cramps are largely a function of de-hydration. Older people tend not to feel thirsty as much as younger people, when they actually need to drink more water.
Solution: drink water before bedtime. Keep a glass of water by your bed, and if you wake up take a sip or two.
This should work wonders. (as well as avoiding alcohol, caffeine, and other things like salt which will de-hydrate)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Bigtipper wrote: |
Solution: drink water before bedtime. Keep a glass of water by your bed, and if you wake up take a sip or two. |
With the added advantage that you may need to get up in the night, which might help avoid cramp 
I have found wine to make things worse but as it's not a diuretic (I think) then there must be some other sort of metabolic reason for this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Isn't all alcohol a diuretic? As well as the dehydration caused by skiing the air in the mountains is very dry.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
And warm long socks in bed 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Claude B wrote: |
| Isn't all alcohol a diuretic? As well as the dehydration caused by skiing the air in the mountains is very dry. |
Ah, that's probably why cider doesn't have the same effect. Interesting, because for me, this is contributory rather than the underlying cause of night cramp.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Raceplate wrote: |
I second both Magnesium and salt and top up on both regularly. My crampy calves have pretty much disappeared since I started taking Magnesium supplements.
For magnesium, be careful what preparation you get. Magnesium Glycinate is the best but the most common is magnesium oxide. Mg oxide is a laxative! Mg glycinate is almost fully absorbed in the stomach so although it's more expensive, it's also much more effective in smaller doses.
For salt, I find the quickest fix is 1-2 tablespoons of soy sauce. A natural soy sauce (like Kikkoman) has exceptionally high sodium chloride levels but unlike salt water, won't make you sick. |
+ 1 for magnesium supplements. Stopped my cramp immediately, comes back after a few weeks when I don’t take it during periods of more intense exercise. I now also start the day with a litre of water with a fizzy vit / electrolyte pill in it .
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Bigtipper wrote: |
When you sleep at night, you de-hydrate. When you pee first thing in the morning, your urine will be the darkest it is during the day. Cramps are largely a function of de-hydration. Older people tend not to feel thirsty as much as younger people, when they actually need to drink more water.
Solution: drink water before bedtime. Keep a glass of water by your bed, and if you wake up take a sip or two.
This should work wonders. (as well as avoiding alcohol, caffeine, and other things like salt which will de-hydrate) |
+1 for hydration. I'm terrible for not drinking enough when I'm skiing and the reminder that I haven't always comes that night in bed in the form of cramps. Drink enough during the day or drink enough in the evening and it will probably be alright but I'm afraid I don't find drinking the water just before I go to be very efficacious; I'm no medical expert but I suspect it probably takes a little while for the water to get from stomach to muscle, but which time I've already had the first cramp!
When I'm behaving myself and drink enough water whilst skiing I have no problems.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
For quick relief from cramp stand on something cold. I used to keep a ceramic tile by my bed.
Works for me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Last night I woke up during the night and needed a pee. I measured by pulse and oxygen saturation before I went (hbpm 41 and oxygen saturation of 96%), and after I came back and got into bed (hbpm 42 and oxygen saturation of 99%). Whilst the low hbpm is normal for me when in bed, I did find the reading on returning low (I would have expected a jump to about 50, which it probably did as I went but must have dropped as I got back into bed).
Anyway, the point here is, oxygen saturation can be low when sleeping as you may not breathe deeply enough, or might find you have some breathing restrictions. Also, by getting up and moving, oxygen floods your blood and gets to your muscles, making them relax.
I did not have any muscle cramps, but a cheap oximeter might be worth a small investment to check (mine cost about £10 on ebay).
I normally expect my oxygen saturation to be 95% - 98% at rest, and this rises when I breathe more deeply or stand up and go for a walk. Moving (or breathing deeper) is good for you!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@Bigtipper, that's very interesting. I used to find that (all other things being equal) a particular feeling of weakness and tiredness before sleep was a good predictor of cramp, perhaps measuring oxygen saturation would have been informative.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Quote: |
Whilst the low hbpm is normal for me when in bed, I did find the reading on returning low
|
Urinating slows your heart rate and lowers your bp, during and for a short period after. It's something to do with a nerve or something that passes behind the bladder.
As your generally have a lower hr and bp in the middle of the night there is a recognised phenomena of men getting up for a pee at 3 or 4am and then passing out whilst doing it and injuring themselves (if you don't believe me then Google it).
The reason women don't suffer from these middle of the night injuries is that they sit down making them less vulnerable to passing out and less likely to hurt themselves if they do.
Advice from my GP was that those with low resting heart rate are best to sit down for night time loo breaks whatever their gender.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 29-01-18 13:53; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I suffer from cramp on occasion and would agree with the advice around stretching before and after skiing and I make sure I nosh some crisps after skiing to replenish salt.
I am also Diabetic (type 1) and I find that can also cause cramps (I think it relates to circulation rather than hydration). Just mention that in case it is relevant.
On the subject of cramp - cramp in the base of my foot, whilst skiing (and therefore my boot is still on) is one of my hates!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Stretch that muscle by standing with top of toes on floor and pushing foot forward. This will stretch the front of ankle where tendon joins foot. I find I get more cramp at night when dehydrated after long runs, but that also may be salts and mg depletrd from sweating too much
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| midgetbiker wrote: |
| Quote: |
Whilst the low hbpm is normal for me when in bed, I did find the reading on returning low
|
Urinating slows your heart rate and lowers your bp, during and for a short period after. It's something to do with a nerve or something that passes behind the bladder.
As your generally have a lower hr and bp in the middle of the night there is a recognised phenomena of men getting up for a pee at 3 or 4am and then passing out whilst doing it and injuring themselves (if you don't believe me then Google it).
The reason women don't suffer from these middle of the night injuries is that they sit down making them less vulnerable to passing out and less likely to hurt themselves if they do.
Advice from my GP was that those with low resting heart rate are best to sit down for night time loo breaks whatever their gender. |
Sit down wees also v good when you've had a few too many. Got that tip from a boozy night out with some medics many years ago. Love a good sit down wee, have fallen asleep on the bog more than once as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
the missus used to suffer badly from cramps in the legs after a run, but she has started using High5 zero's as a post recovery drink to get the salts and such back into her system, seems to work for her.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I find bicarbonate of soda (1g with a squeeze of lemon and some filtered water) after a run as a post recovery drink helps balance out the excess lactic acid and stomach acidity. Sometimes I add 2g if I am not eating much salt that day.
It is said to be proven to increase stamina in long distance runners if taken before a run, but I use it to neutralise increased acidity when I exercise a lot.
It is most effective on my digestive system, which can be erratic after running. Bicarbonate of soda stabilises my digestion. However, you should be careful you do not take too much as too much sodium is bad for you. (I measure total sodium intake per day, so I remain below recommended levels)
http://www.momentumsports.co.uk/TtBicarbonateOfSoda.asp
The doseage I take is well below the levels suggested here. I do not get any side effects at the levels I use, but I do notice improved bowel movement.
I also sometimes pre-load with sodium bicarbonate if I plan to drink too much alcohol. It neutralises the acid in alcohol and aids the body's ability to stabilise blood ph levels. (I do not recommend this system and I personally have only done it a couple of times to see if it would work)
It is a bit like Del Boy adding an alka seltser to his brandy! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@endoman, hubby often has a sit down wee, especially in the middle of the night. I don't know why more men don't. Saves the floor from a sprinkling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Quote: |
| @Bigtipper, that's very interesting. I used to find that (all other things being equal) a particular feeling of weakness and tiredness before sleep was a good predictor of cramp, perhaps measuring oxygen saturation would have been informative. |
Ok, I did it again last night but this time kept the oximeter on from lying in bed awake, until back in bed and lights out. So, my pulse rose as I got out of bed from low 40s to 60-70 initially then stabilised at 60 as I walked to the bathroom and did a pee. (standing up) It remained at 60 till I got back into bed, then immediately it dropped to 40 again.
The oxygen saturation started at 95%, rose to 97% on standing up and walking to bathroom, peeing and returning. On getting into bed, as my pulse rate dropped my oxygen saturation levels rose to 99%.
I think my pulse just drops immediately when I lie down. Must be a gravity related thing, less pressure required to pump blood when all vessels are at the same level as the heart.
I think though, that tiredness and weakness are a sign of more exercise than you are used to. Therefore, cramp is probably likely, especially when at altitude when oxygen levels are low. (or lower than you are acclimitised to)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I've been searching for posts on pulse oximeters due to an article in the mail on sunday regarding their value in determining whether you should get yourself to hospital in case of a cv induced pneumonia.
I have one, and have been testing recently to ensure my normal levels are consistent with my history. (they are). I also use my thermometer to test my body temperature, as this ensures I know my normal levels using the method of my measurement.
It could be useful if you catch something, and want to know if it is getting serious after isolation.
My levels are generally between 96%-99%, lower when at rest and rise when I do things (like stand up and move around). However, it can be important to ensure lighting is dimmed when measuring, and that your fingers are clean and warm. Otherwise you sometimes get distorted readings. Also that the battery is fully charged.
A minor operation recently when I was under GA and oxygen feed, resulted in 100% oxygen sats during operation (according to a nurse as I was coming out of anesthetic)
Many search results in the covid thread, but I opted to reply to this thread instead.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Awdbugga wrote: |
Not really an injury, more a minor frustration. I’ve only skied at the CF so far. Normally do a minimum of 4 hours at a time. Have no problems with aches or pains whilst skiing or on the days afterwards. However, I’m finding that I quiet often get cramp in bed the night after skiing. It’s not cramp of the calf or thigh or under feet; it’s cramp of the muscle down the outside side of my shin. Sometimes the tendon where it joins my ankle is so tight with cramp you could play a tune on it.
My boots are really comfortable and I have custom insoles.
Anyone got any suggestions on how to avoid night cramps. Cheers. |
Get bloodtest for monitoring vits and mins.
Skiing sweats out potassium, magnesium, calcium, and other life-vital electrolytes.
Post-exercise cramp is usually caused by too few (or too many) electrolytes in the blood.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
2 years late.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@adithorp, Yeah, but it#s not like the issue of cramp in the night has now been resolved for the rest of time.
Or has it?
Lucozade Sport, the Sport bit is important, contains electrolytes but also re-hydrates without making trips to the loo more likely. Something to do with the water molecules attaching themselves to other particles making them too big to pass straight through the gut so they get absorbed into the bloodstream. Worth a try.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
