 Poster: A snowHead
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has anyone got a picture of the balancer, i have seen one but it was several years ago, just want to compare it to a couple of things i am looking at right now
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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CEM, sorry, can't help you there.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wear The Fox Hat, hopefully not if they clean the filters properly!
spyderjon, that was my intuition this morning - leaning back on old skis "seemed" to work as poor technique could be partially compensated for by skidding out the heels. A vicious circle of course.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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CEM, think of a fat, baby, see-saw. That's about it really.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CEM, does this help or do you want actual device pics?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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comprex, nice pic of you at number 5 
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comprex, that's pretty close to the thing we were on, apart from the shaft (32) now being totally encased, rather than just held in with a U bolt.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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spyderjon,
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All, sorry, you had to be there
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I am relieved that I missed this err...event 
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Snowbunny, It was horrible, this was just a typical case in point
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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marc gledhill, Ah, Butcher Bell. I heard his brother was pretty good? 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Isn't that an Olympian taking drugs?
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Let's hope he's not also giving a sample. 
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You know it makes sense.
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comprex, marc gledhill, thanks guys that is probably beter than a proper pic (bit clearer)
the device i am looking at is supposed (info has not arrived yet, its on its way from the states with a friend) to be a bit like the CDB but also deals with lateral balance as well....... i will wait and see what it actually does when i see it!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Has anyone an idear how this balancer or way of setting up binding position handles a skier with a backpack? I have used a pack for 80% of my snow adventures and would think that the body position would be adapted automatically by the skier to compensate fore this!
Your thoughts are of value to me.
Thanks! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Tuble Turn, my balancer 'score' is the same with or without a backpack.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks for that! I'll make a balancer next week and have a look at what I get from it. I will be mounting an pair of Fritschi Freeride bindings on some new twin tip Amplid Tredy Drivers. Have you any tips for AT (Alpine Touring) Bindings or if there is much extra to consider with this type of binding?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Tuble Turn, The only thing to watch with Fritschi's is the delta angle as the binding set-up is flat if both the heel & toe spacers are installed. It's great for me as I prefer no delta angle, in fact I have my bindings set-up so that they're 1-2mm toe high. However if you prefer some delta angle then I'd recommend not fitting the toe spacer plate to reduce toe height by a few mm, for which you might need to grind done the mounting screws by an equivalent amount depending upon the thickness of the ski in that location.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks for that! I have a bit still to learn about Delta angle and other aspects of binding fitting. Any further or definitive place to look as there is no snow where I live and next to no one that I know of that has such a scientific/methodical aproach! I would kind of love some sort of a check list where to start right through till final placement of bindings.
Thanks for your input!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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spyderjon, i hadnt seen this thread initially but it ties up with what i saw with some skis you did for me. If you recall you mounted some VIST interchangable bindings on some Vokl Karmas for me. I believe you set the bindings at the "FreeRide" midpoint instead of the "FreeStyle" midpoint. The FR point I seem to recall is aft of the FS setting about 5cm.
When i skied them at first on piste i felt way, way back on the skis and couldnt engage an edge, i really didnt like the skis at all... I shifted the binding forward to as far forward as they will go using the speed lock plate and the difference was immediate and very noticeable. I must require a forward setting.. and would be interested in seeing what my "campbell" point is / should be... It is interesting that you said that most skiers at the ESA were several centimetres too far back and needed a + 5 or 6 cm adjustment.
Has your balancer project come along? I have some new heads coming in and wouldnt mind getting the balance once over on my full quiver... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skimottaret, I've had a play on spyderjon's balancer and my neutral point is quite a lot forward (8cm? Jon, do you have a record of this?) of the midpoint. I've moved the bindings on my Fischer RC4 forward by 4cm after visiting Jon's place, but to be honest I've only skied on them once since then and didn't really give the skis a good workout to feel what the difference was. I've now got Vist Speedlock plates on my GS and slalom skis so I can have a proper test next season to find the most comfortable position, and will havethe confidence to move the bindings forward a lot after being balanced by Jon.
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rob@rar, 4cm is quite a bit and i am thinking all my skis could do with going forward after my experience of the karmas. a trip to nottinham may be on the cards
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skimottaret, yes, when I asked Bartlett's to move the bindings for me they asked if I was really sure as 4cm was a lot. I've skied on them for about 4 hours at MK since then and didn't feel unbalanced (well, not any more than normal!), so moving the bindings that much certainly wasn't a disaster. I'll spend more time next season using the versatility of the Speedlock plates to have a more rigourous test.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Linds, thanks for reminding me pal 
rob@rar, yep, I kept a record. Your balancer score was +8cm which means that your bindings should ideally be positioned on your skis so that the leading edge of the toe lug of your boot is 8cm in front of the CRS of the ski (Centre of the Running Surface).
skimottaret, I think the Campbell Balancer is a really useful tool but the best results will only be obtained if your boots have been properly aligned/forward lean checked etc. As well as alignment, CEM/Andi McCann's Neutralizer system also measures for your ideal binding toe height/delta angle etc which is an all encompassing check of your own physique's set-up including the boot's internal zeppa angle & the forward lean of your boot's cuff etc. My own ideal binding delta angle, as determined by both Bud Heishman in the US & by CEM/Andi here, is ideally 1-2mm high at the toe, & if my bindings or boots can't be adjusted to that then at least level. My Vist bindings have a +5mm delta angle (ie heel is 5mm higher than the toe) so I've got 7mm shims under my toe pieces to get me to +1mm high at the front (as the ski's top sheet curves down one mm).
I've played around on my Cambell Balancer with different shims under my boot's toe lugs & it has a noticable affect on the result so I'd definately recommend getting your boots fully fettled first by CEM/Andi.
Interestingly, whilst all recreational bindings have some degree of delta angle all of the top end race bindings that the pro's use are flat to allow the user to easily tweak their heights with either minimal shimming under the binding or minimal boot work etc. Many people do actually require a slightly toe high set-up which is why Vist make stepped mounting plates for racers that are thicker under the toe binding than under the heel piece.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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spyderjon, is the CRS the line that is marked in the middle of (most) skis, or does that indicate something else?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, there's no standardised system unfortunately. Most piste skis only have the manufacturers 'Mr.Average' boot mid-sole position marked. Many twin tips also have a centre line marked but it's not usually the CRS but is the true balance point over which that park rats position their boot's mid-sole mark so the the skis rotate easily & concentrically during spins etc. These skis will usually also have conventional freeride/all mountain line as well for non park use which is again a Mr.Average position. Some but not many do show the CRS & sometimes also telemark positions.
If you search on Epic & TGR you'll find loads of threads from folk comparing binding locations which is why a standardised system would be really useful.
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spyderjon, glad it's all so simple I think trial and error with the Speedlocks is probably a good idea!
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You know it makes sense.
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how much of this is mumbo jumbo?
my guess- quite a lot
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| edsilva wrote: |
| my guess- quite a lot |
Which bits?
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Poster: A snowHead
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edsilva, This is perfectly simple geometry designed to help, assist and compensate for the induvidual and the standardised equipment used. When you get it right, it makes a huge difference,admittedly more for some than others, but how do you know when you are on that scale?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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spyderjon, Thanks Jon, that is most helpful. I am really happy with my boots/footbeds at the moment and other than them being a bit soft for me they were set up by profeet and should be fairly close. They are two years old now and might not be bang on but they are very comfortable and have a decent fit.
CEM, If i just needed the alignments/angle checked prior to having my ski binding positions reviewed by Jon should i come see you or Andi??
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skimottaret, can you make it up saturday, if it is just a check we can get you in [andi is in] next date after that is sat 14th june, if i have the machine here then i can check them for you any time
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CEM, 14th works well for me. I am at MK teaching in the morning so could be at your place at 2:30 or so? any good?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skimottaret, it's all fascinating stuff isn't it? I was at CEM's a few weeks ago, am yet to ski with my newly fettled boots, really need to try them... but they made no promises of turning me from skiing like a dog to skiing like a god
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skimottaret, I've got 2, 3 & 4mm binding shims if you need 'em, although it's often easier to get CEM to plate up the front of your boots & then route the toe lugs back down to size. Can't do that to my Atomic boots though as the lugs are hollow.
BTW the new Marker Duke's have zero ramp angle & I'm told the Jester's are also zero but I haven't measured them myself.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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spyderjon, Thanks, I have to measure up my RC4's and Volkls but may take you up on the offer of shims depending what i find out... Do you know what the ramp is for the VIST interchange bindings?
Once i get my new head skis in i will pop up for a binding position check on all my skis. With the equipment perfectly adjusted all excuses will be out the window and i will finally be exposed as the c**p skier i always have been
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spyderjon, Wakey, Wakey.
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FAQ
