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Austria Smoking Ban Overturned

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Yesterday the new Austrian Government over turned a planned total smoking ban in Restaurants/Bars etc planned for May 2018.

Therefore current situation will continue Smoking "Berlin Model" & Non smoking sections but generally to access the non smoking section you have to pass through the smoking section which is generally full.

Not every bar restaurant has divided sections.

Only plus side age for buying tobacco rises from 16 to 18.

Cigarette vending machine are still widespread on city streets. rolling eyes


https://derstandard.at/2000070013428/Regierungs-Einigung-Vorerst-kein-totales-Rauchverbot-in-Lokalen

http://www.krone.at/603088
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@stanton, well that's put me off a return to ski in Austria after a break of nearly 10 years. I suppose it'll shorten how much the state has to pay out in pensions in the longer run rolling eyes
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Look on the bright side, at least they haven't reinstated the Judengesetz.
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They should put it on the front of their tourist brochures.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Gibt es hier auf Englisch https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/12/austria-stubs-out-looming-smoking-ban-freedom
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Maybe Trump will do the same for America's great great tobacco industry. Nice.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Like davidof, that has put me off returning to Austria! Sad
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
However, this thread is in The Piste, so presumably the OP thought that this would affect skiing - or maybe decisions on which country to ski in. Bearing in mind the restrictions applicable to establishments catering for those under 18, won't most accommodation public areas and mountain restaurants in practice be smoking free areas anyway?

Quote:
Under-18s will not be allowed in smoking rooms of bars and restaurants, smoking will be outlawed in cars if under-18s are inside, and the minimum age for smoking will rise from 16 to 18.
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achilles wrote:
However, this thread is in The Piste, so presumably the OP thought that this would affect skiing - or maybe decisions on which country to ski in. Bearing in mind the restrictions applicable to establishments catering for those under 18, won't most accommodation public areas and mountain restaurants in practice be smoking free areas anyway?

Quote:
Under-18s will not be allowed in smoking rooms of bars and restaurants, smoking will be outlawed in cars if under-18s are inside, and the minimum age for smoking will rise from 16 to 18.


In my experience most (struggling to think of any at all that aren't) accommodation and restaurants already are non-smoking; it's only really bars and some cafes that still allow smoking and may or may not have smoke/non-smoke sections.

Disappointing though for sure. My perception was that even most smokers were in favour of the ban, at least among younger people.
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Dearie me - if Scotland can cope (and thrive) with a smoking ban then so can Austria, FFS

My son - now 12 - is of a generation that does not really comprehend that we ever allowed people to smoke indoors. Him and his peers see it as something that stupid old people do !

(and I say that as someone who smoked until my wife was pregnant with our son).

Extremely short sighted from a public health perspective.
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Don't even recall the last time I saw smoking inside a restaurant or bar (without a fully segregated screened-off negative pressure area).
All the smokers will be loitering in the doorway, just outside the doorway, or having a fag on the bench tables outside.
One imagines that is basically the same in all alpine resorts.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@clarky999, I know of a cheap b&b by the river in Innsbruck that allows smoking in the bar, certainly up until last season anyway - I’ve a friend who used it because it did, but I think it’s changed hands now so may have a new policy.

It seems a bit short sighted - attitudes throughout Europe have largely changed, and from an anecdotal perspective the number of smokers seems to have fallen dramatically. I think I now only have one friend who smokes, where there would’ve been loads 10-15 years ago. Having lost many family members to smoking-related illnesses, it’s not something I’ve ever tolerated. A smoky bar isn’t going to hold my attention for more than a few seconds.
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I can think of a really large mountain hut with a large smoking section. Unfortunately it's pretty unavoidable if you're skiing with a beginner. The village below also has a large restaurant but we can avoid that.

I will definitely be rethinking whereas before I was happy to go along with Austria on the basis that change was coming.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
nelly0168 wrote:


My son - now 12 - is of a generation that does not really comprehend that we ever allowed people to smoke indoors. Him and his peers see it as something that stupid old people do !


Don't ever drive by a French Lycee or he may have a shock.


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 12-12-17 13:25; edited 1 time in total
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
nelly0168 wrote:
......
My son - now 12 - is of a generation that does not really comprehend that we ever allowed people to smoke indoors. Him and his peers see it as something that stupid old people do !....


I note the ageist comment. I hoe you advised your son to think more carefully before he speaks.

Generally trends are down in the UK. However, there is one young age group where the trend is rising:

Quote:
Prevalence amongst 16 to 24 year olds increased from 2 per cent in 2015 to 6 per cent in 2016.


Oh. So not stupid old people.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@achilles, that probably counts as old people to a 12 year old
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
achilles wrote:
However, there is one young age group where the trend is rising:

Quote:
Prevalence amongst 16 to 24 year olds increased from 2 per cent in 2015 to 6 per cent in 2016.


Oh. So not stupid old people.

Selective quote that completely misleads.

That quote is for e-cigarette use - which may actually be a good thing if it means that age group is turning away from the tar etc in actual cigarettes. The same publication indicates that overall smoking among 18-24 years old decreased by 7% between 2010 and 2016 - a drop that is greater than for any other age group.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
achilles wrote:
nelly0168 wrote:
......
My son - now 12 - is of a generation that does not really comprehend that we ever allowed people to smoke indoors. Him and his peers see it as something that stupid old people do !....


I note the ageist comment. I hoe you advised your son to think more carefully before he speaks.

Generally trends are down in the UK. However, there is one young age group where the trend is rising:

Quote:
Prevalence amongst 16 to 24 year olds increased from 2 per cent in 2015 to 6 per cent in 2016.


Oh. So not stupid old people.


Nope, he is entitled to his opinion, and - from his observations (which is all a kid can go on) it is only "old" people who smoke, and all the kids his age think smoking is stupid.

As to who is "old", when I was his age, I would have considered that anyone 30+ had one foot in the grave

Very Happy
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If I am not mistaken.

The EU (instigated by a Cypriot MEP some years ago) has given ALL member states a deadline to introduce NO Smoking to protect ALL employees.

Failure to meet the EU will impose a penalty..
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
nelly0168 wrote:
...

Nope, he is entitled to his opinion, and - from his observations (which is all a kid can go on) it is only "old" people who smoke, and all the kids his age think smoking is stupid.


I think it is up to parents to encourage children to make informed opinions. I accept that you may not. One can but hope that other children are more fortunate.

Quote:
As to who is "old", when I was his age, I would have considered that anyone 30+ had one foot in the grave

Very Happy


Maybe. But the upwards trend is amongst 16 -24 years old.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 12-12-17 14:55; edited 1 time in total
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@stanton, I am aware of EU Council Recommendation 2009/C 296/02. Has there been an EU directive on this since then? A Council Recommendation is not legally binding.

Quote:
A recommendation allows the institutions to make their views known and to suggest a line of action without imposing any legal obligation on those to whom it is addressed.
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My last 3 ski holidays have been in Austria and I cannot say I noticed smoking being an issue and I'm an ex-smoker who would have turned his nose up at it . NehNeh Laughing
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Last time we went to Obergurgl hotel owner was a smoker who said no-one was going to stop him smoking in his hotel and he was happy for his guests to smoke too. Most of them seemed to prefer cigars which made the bar area quite gross after dinner!
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achilles wrote:
... Maybe. But the upwards trend is amongst 16 -24 years old.
You have to bear in mind that people become addicted to tobacco surprisingly early. Whilst it's certainly stupid old people who do most smoking, the reason is that they grew out of being stupid children.

Almost no one gets addicted as an adult. That's been the whole point of the tobacco industry marketing campaign for the last 50 years. You have to get them whilst they're vulnerable and before they understand the consequences.

In the case of Austrian fascists, well I believe half the people in every country are below average. The trick is to try to avoid them shooting themselves in the feet by getting elected or "winning" referenda.

Austria: I stay in no smoking hotels there these days, but there are still problems with smoke there in many places. Last season was the best yet, but this is clearly a step in the wrong direction.
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I think it matters not what the situation is on the ground this move seems nonsensical and politically motivated. Trumpesque you might say.
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Only one thing worse than people smoking in a bar, and that's the pompous anti-smoking brigade moaning about someone smoking in a bar......seriously, get over yourselves
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Guvnor wrote:
Only one thing worse than people smoking in a bar, and that's the pompous anti-smoking brigade moaning about someone smoking in a bar......seriously, get over yourselves


You must be one of those dirty smoking cancerogenic infectors Mad Mad
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Guvnor, I see you've taken your signature out - have you packed in?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@holidayloverxx, Yeah, years ago, that stuff kills you......doesn't give me the right to dictate how others choose to live their life though
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
We always go to France now. Took the kids to Saalbach a few years ago, and the smoke was constantly wafting thru into the restaurant - really horrible Mad
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
achilles wrote:
nelly0168 wrote:
...

Nope, he is entitled to his opinion, and - from his observations (which is all a kid can go on) it is only "old" people who smoke, and all the kids his age think smoking is stupid.


I think it is up to parents to encourage children to make informed opinions. I accept that you may not. One can but hope that other children are more fortunate.

Quote:
As to who is "old", when I was his age, I would have considered that anyone 30+ had one foot in the grave

Very Happy


Maybe. But the upwards trend is amongst 16 -24 years old.


I may not want my son to make informed decisions?

On the contrary, we discuss many subjects with him in the home.

It also helps that - in Scotland - one of the high school subjects is Modern Studies, a diverse subject including world and local politics, economic principles and how they impact on poverty, charity and what it means (positive and negative) at home and abroad, studies of the media, including confirmation bias and what trump likes to call fake news.

It allows kids to have a broader understanding of the world, and crucially teaches them to think for themselves.

In summary, he is a lot better informed than many kids his age (and many adults), and if - in his opinion - he has assessed that most smokers are old and stupid, I wont be trying to change his mind.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Guvnor, You is back, I thought you were long gone snowHead
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Guvnor wrote:
.....doesn't give me the right to dictate how others choose to live their life though

Which is precisely what you do if you smoke in a room with anyone who isn't.

So we're agreed on that: you have no right to make me breathe cancer smoke.
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@Guvnor, It's a subject that's always guaranteed to get the sanctimonious gits started! The NHS would be screwed without the tax smokers pay on tobacco, LOL Laughing And the irony of @davidof complaining when his username is 1f short of a well-known cigar brand!










Gets popcorn and sits back...
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
The only thing I actively dislike about Austria. It seriously deters me from visiting some bars and restaurants.
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@philwig +1
The pro-smoking lobby seem a bit sensitive today. Shouldn't they be celebrating this Austrian decision and maybe move over there permanently? I've no objection to others smoking as much as they like, as long as they don't affect the health of my family by doing it in an enclosed public place.
One of the best things that happened in the UK in the last 50 years IMO is the public place smoking ban. If Austria ignore the way the tide's going on this they can KMA as far as holidaying there is concerned. snowHead
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queen bodecia wrote:
The only thing I actively dislike about Austria. It seriously deters me from visiting some bars and restaurants.


Having a partner with asthma, who reacts really badly to cigarette smoke, it seriously deters me from visiting the country. Sad
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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Quote:

Guvnor wrote:
.....doesn't give me the right to dictate how others choose to live their life though

Which is precisely what you do if you smoke in a room with anyone who isn't.

So we're agreed on that: you have no right to make me breathe cancer smoke.

Precisely! Surprised that smokers can't seem to see it from that angle. My wife suffers from COPD (from years of smoking), and we have to leave a bar if the fug gets too much, as it aggravates her condition. We were really looking forward to this ban.

Regarding the stats about age group of smokers, I'm always surprised by how many young people smoke in Austrian bars, since so much is now known and publicised about the dangers. (Quite apart from the anti-social angle).


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Tue 12-12-17 22:40; edited 1 time in total
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Gordyjh wrote:
And the irony of @davidof complaining when his username is 1f short of a well-known cigar brand!


Show me the post where I'm complaining please.
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tatmanstours wrote:
(Quite apart from the anti-social angle).


Young Smokers think it is Social ..& if you do not join (not smoking but stand or sit chat with them ) its anti social.
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