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Salomon S/LAB Shift binding

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Dabber, yeah I’d say so, I noticed they didn’t say anything about the single climbing riser. Obviously they weren’t bothered about that.
I must admit having used the Kingpins for the first time last week for 2-3 days, I found clicking the toe in on the Shifts easier what with pressing down on the lever to open the jaws then releasing to close when you can see they are aligned. I found the Kingpins didn’t ever go in first time. It always took 2-3 goes which bugged me.
I am so glad I didn’t buy the Kingpins and got the Shifts for what I want out of it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
@Dabber, yeah I’d say so, I noticed they didn’t say anything about the single climbing riser. Obviously they weren’t bothered about that.
I must admit having used the Kingpins for the first time last week for 2-3 days, I found clicking the toe in on the Shifts easier what with pressing down on the lever to open the jaws then releasing to close when you can see they are aligned. I found the Kingpins didn’t ever go in first time. It always took 2-3 goes which bugged me.
I am so glad I didn’t buy the Kingpins and got the Shifts for what I want out of it.


a lot was said about the lack of second riser , but the pros who helped with the design and testing of the shift all said that skin tracks should not be steeper than ones suited to a 10' riser , and after a couple of weeks on mine following my son who sets a mean track , I find the 10' plenty and am defiantly more confident on early morning firm tracks

IMHO kingpins are a poor compromise , I did have them last season but as you said , stepping into the toe piece on anything but perfect flat is hard work , and also with a short BSL like mine the heel frequently got caught up when stepping in any depressions and bending the ski and shortening the gap
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Dabber wrote:


a lot was said about the lack of second riser , but the pros who helped with the design and testing of the shift all said that skin tracks should not be steeper than ones suited to a 10' riser , and after a couple of weeks on mine following my son who sets a mean track , I find the 10' plenty and am defiantly more confident on early morning firm tracks

IMHO kingpins are a poor compromise , I did have them last season but as you said , stepping into the toe piece on anything but perfect flat is hard work , and also with a short BSL like mine the heel frequently got caught up when stepping in any depressions and bending the ski and shortening the gap


@Dabber, yeah I’d read that somewhere about why 10 degrees was chosen. Are steeper tracks dangerous do you think?
Why do you feel more confident on early morning firm skin tracks with your Shifts?
Re Kingpin, yes last week I had a ski pop off in really deep soggy snow and it was difficult to get it ‘just so’ at the toe to get the ski back on quickly. At least with the Alpine toe you can put the ski back on easily at an angle with the tail dug down in the snow for stability or with one leg down in the heavy wet snow. Sometimes off piste (which is exactly what you would get with touring) it’s hard to get the ski precisely flat and level. Maybe I needed more practice.
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Quote:

@Dabber, yeah I’d read that somewhere about why 10 degrees was chosen. Are steeper tracks dangerous do you think?

IIRC the reasoning is that steeper tracks use more energy, and you're better off putting a longer, shallower track in. Must be some degree of personal preference here, and dependence on conditions, route options etc but clearly Cody Townsend et al were happy with one riser.
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@VolklAttivaS5,

+1 ^^ when I did my intro to touring a few years back , we did an exercise that set two tracks one steep and one much shallower , we then ascend 300m on a consistent slope with no forced direction changes , the members of the group got to choose which track to take up , the results spoke for themselves as both groups got to the top at similar times , but the lower angle group was perceptibly fresher as we didn’t have to put in many kick turns , traveled at a relaxed effort and there were far less “moments “ on the way up ,
Nowadays I know if I try and cut out a corner or overtake someone by going straight up a section it takes my heart rate way up and is hard to recover whilst still keeping going, so steady away is so much better all round for me

I find the shallower the riser the better footprint / grip I get in the track as I’m standing right on my feet over the middle of my skis , I used to switch to the highest riser all the time to feel confident but that is actually counter productive as It puts you more on your toes and more susceptible to slipping back , so now having no high risers I have learnt to stand up more and subsequently have less “moments “
Another plus is the less faff time of stopping to constantly changing riser heights
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@Dabber, totally agree on the track angle, another downsides of the high riser is it shortens your stride length and disengages your crampons. It does however make it easier on your calves.
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@Dabber, yes I can see what you’re saying there and yes shallower tracks are far more enjoyable even if you cover more distance lengthwise! I was puffing a bit going straight up this steep red piste yesterday so I could try the riser on something ‘steep’. I seldom used my top setting on my Tours anyway (13 degrees) as like you say you feel like you’re on your toes too much.
Interestingly, skiing back down last night I saw another tourer on the way up and at that point she was on a shallower bit of the piste I’d been on, she still had it on the highest setting though (not Shifts) and I thought it looked uncomfortable myself. She was dressed like a pro though and giving it some welly so it obviously works for her!
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@VolklAttivaS5, Rando !! Mad for it , put it in high and go steep and fast !! Not for me Happy
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@Dabber, I thought it was strange why she didn’t have it on the flat setting Puzzled
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Anyone knows where /if it's possible to get bigger brake for shift? Looking for 110. Cheers
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Yes you can buy replacement brakes , but like all things shift they will be in shot supply, worth a email to Jon @the piste office to see what he’s got , if not maybe offer swop in buy and sell on here ??
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
kedsky wrote:
Anyone knows where /if it's possible to get bigger brake for shift? Looking for 110. Cheers

I've got brakes in all widths in stock. https://www.thepisteoffice.com/index.php/the-piste-office-store/alpine-touring-bindings/salomon.html
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So much useful/interesting info in this thread. Thank you all.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
IanTr wrote:
So much useful/interesting info in this thread. Thank you all.

Lots of Shift stuff here too: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/316198-The-Official-Salomon-S-Lab-SHIFT-MNC-Thread-AMA
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Has anyone else had issues with the Shift front binding freezing whilst in touring mode?

I encountered freezing twice last week when taking a short break 5 minute (off skis) after a couple of hours skinning, where I was unable to move the front lever up back into the locked position (no visible ice), which meant that the pins slipped out of the boots a few times when I continued up.
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@oui4ski, Mate has had exactly that, took it back to the shop and Salomon's solution was to send some form of lube to be applied - ok since then.
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@oui4ski, the secondary pull on the toe piece can be very firm normally , I've found mine easing off now I have some time on them , be prepared to pull a bit harder than you think
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@oui4ski, not noticed this yet
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Going to be trying them on a skin tomorrow though and it’s colder this week so will see if it happens.
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Dabber wrote:
@oui4ski, the secondary pull on the toe piece can be very firm normally , I've found mine easing off now I have some time on them , be prepared to pull a bit harder than you think

When not frozen - it doesn't usually require excessive force to lock, but was told by a ski technician that they dare not pull any harder and break something when I took it in one lunchtime to check that I wasn't doing something stupid! I'll apply some silicone spray before I use them again.
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chocksaway wrote:
@oui4ski, Mate has had exactly that, took it back to the shop and Salomon's solution was to send some form of lube to be applied - ok since then.

Thanks - I'll try a liberal application of silicone spray!
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VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
Going to be trying them on a skin tomorrow though and it’s colder this week so will see if it happens.

I suspect that the problem may have been starting low when it was snowing (maybe +2C) and the accumulated moisture froze as I ascended through 0C and on to -5C (this was only Medran to Ruinettes via Clambin, so nothing extreme). It didn't occur when changing from downhill to touring in colder temperatures doing some variations around Col de Gentianes.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@oui4ski, ok
The only thing I’ve noticed happen with them this week (not done any touring this week yet) is the walk switch has flicked down accidentally a couple of times before I put the skis on.
I’d not been scuffing my boot on the bindings either to get the snow off the bottom or anything like that.

Still delighted with them though.
I would have liked a higher climbing setting just to be available if I wanted it but so far I’ve managed alright on just the 10 degrees.
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Is anyone else having problems with pre-release? Mine have popped off unexpectedly a few times. DIN is 8 and forward pressure seems ok to me according to the manual.
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@oui4ski, Very Happy Can I borrow some of our spray for my Tecton 12 brake blocks! Seems like all new types of touring binding have issues.
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Meltus wrote:
Is anyone else having problems with pre-release? Mine have popped off unexpectedly a few times. DIN is 8 and forward pressure seems ok to me according to the manual.

If it's from the heel then increase the forward pressure by a mm.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
@oui4ski, ok
Still delighted with them though.
I would have liked a higher climbing setting just to be available if I wanted it but so far I’ve managed alright on just the 10 degrees.


I am also delighted with them - but would prefer to arrive with a little energy left for the downhill, so have no problems with the lower riser!
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I find that when putting your own track in somewhere it’s fine (only been skinning/touring a few times mind) but when you are following other people who can go steeper than you it’s either follow that track or deviate off and put your own in and so I ended up doing the steeper track and finding it a bit tricky.
That’s only happened on one or two pitches though.
And I’m not sure if a higher option would have worked better or not!
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You know it makes sense.
@VolklAttivaS5, as an aside I was touring earlier in the week with a very good Scandi skier (does seasons in LG and skis hard and fast) well out of my league, and I was surprised to see him on them, and I asked him how he was getting on with them and he just cooly said no issues as yet, and also no problems with the lack of the additional riser, but he is a very experienced skier.

And like he said, maybe next version will have them?

I just think it's the less experienced tourer who might have issues with them when it comes to technical touring.
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@Weathercam, yeah I think so too, I’ve only done about half a dozen skins so far, 2 of those were ‘proper’ ones with a guide setting the track in completely fresh snow and the others were either up the side of a piste/on a designated skinning track near the piste for tourers or where there was already an old track set down to get a bit of practice in.
I think like with off piste skiing, it takes a while to get good at it.
Skinning/touring is strangely addictive isn’t it! Once you start that’s it!
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Did my first ever skin on mine last week at gnabug bash ( @Weathercam, you can take me off your list of people who'll never use them in walk mode). I had no real issues apart from one brake engaging after 10 mins climbing (guess I didn't click it in hard enough). A more experienced tourer on pin bindings commented on how much easier they were to engage the pins than theirs... and I'd never tried/tested before I had to. The single riser didn't bother me but then I don't know any different but the others in the group regularly swapping from one to two and back was annoying.

Nearly 3 weeks sking on them in alpine mode now and had no pre-release.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 13-03-19 21:23; edited 1 time in total
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@adithorp, I’d agree it is a lot easier to get into the pins than the other pin bindings I’d experienced on test skis. Very, very little faff.
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@adithorp, hopefully, more than a couple of hundred ms, at least 750m to come off my list Laughing
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My prototype Shift high climbing bar:



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@spyderjon, cool!! I’d definitely buy one!
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@spyderjon, that’s exactly what I was thinking they could have done-one around the outside of the other like a nest of tables

Are you going to try it?
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How much does the extra bit weigh out of interest?
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@clarky999, best buy 2............ Very Happy
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Never .... ooooh Shift porn .... maybe! Very Happy

When is it available in pressed aluminium (guessing that is the low riser material since mine are currently a few hundred miles away) rather than milled from solid sheet@spyderjon?
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Just slimmed it down a bit so it comes in at sub 40g.



Need to change the double lock nut for a washer and nyloc nut plus I need to find some firm rubber to make a washer/grommet to go between the outside the existing climbing bar and the inside of the new bar as the trapezoidal shape means that the space between the two components changes quite a bit as the new climbing bar rotates, hence the slotted pivot as the new part needs to move vertically as it rotates etc. And the slotted pivot means that the new climbing bar sits on top of the existing one when in use so the load is taken by the existing bar not the pivot screws.
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