Hard start to the season for the French team. David Poisson has been killed in training in Canada. He fell skiing at Nakiska. He was 35. He was a bronze medal winner at the 2013 world championships. He became a father last year.
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Terribly sad news RIP
After all it is free
After all it is free
Awful. With all the B netting we sometimes forget it's the real deal when it comes to risk.
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such sad news:(
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So so sad to hear this news last night. He was a hero in Peisey Vallandry where he had lived all his life and trained there too. He was a regular figure on the slopes. His parents run L'Ancolie - a very popular restaurant in Nancroix. He recently became a father & it was a joy to watch him with his son, playing with him with the other families with small children - a lovely family man. He will be so missed
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I have also just heard this morning that his father died three weeks ago following a long illness
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Dave of the Marmottes, some sources are reporting only B netting was in place and no A netting which is critical for the speed events. As I said this should have never happened. A great loss to the racing community . RIP big fella.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
That's really sad. He seemed like a really nice guy from his appearances on French TV. The speeds that downhill racers reach mean that every crash is potentially fatal.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Terrible news. The Swiss rag is reporting that other teams are saying the Swiss, who were scheduled to train after the French, were not wanting to do so because the safety precautions were deficient
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Very sad news, thoughts to all the family, friends and skiing race community at this time.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
This report says he hit a safety net and then a tree...
There will be an investigation and I guess there may be questions asked as to whether the safety net was adequate or correctly positioned.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Very sad, with various issues training seems to be more dangerous than the actual racing
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Kooky wrote:
@Dave of the Marmottes, some sources are reporting only B netting was in place and no A netting which is critical for the speed events. As I said this should have never happened. A great loss to the racing community . RIP big fella.
How does A netting differ from B netting - is it higher, stronger etc?
@Alastair Pink, the A netting is much taller and stable panels and only used in DH and SG. It is used to take the speed out of high speed crashes with the secondary B nets preventing the racers from injury and impact with objects.
That's the theory anyway
Condolences to family, friends and team-mates on the loss of such a great bloke.
David Poisson made an amusing cameo in Rancho's webshow - http://youtube.com/v/86tRv5NKRGk - 7min:30sec
David appears as his namesake served on a platter to Rancho who is understandably nervous about taking on the Face - the whole French team demonstrate a cracking sense of humour, particularly Poisson.
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Swiss Ski now reported to have stated that several of the Swiss guys were training on the same piste at the same time and were some of the first on the scene
After all it is free
After all it is free
I read of his sad death on Twitter yesterday (no details) and could hardly believe it. Hope it is investigated fully and "lessons learnt" as they always say. I watch the F1 races on Eurosport so will miss "Mr Fish".
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Really really sad. Heartbreaking
This was at nakiska, I skied that run on Sat and my kids were both there training yesterday.
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Undoubtedly he died doing what he loved. Reminds us all of the risks these downhillers take and which would turn most mortals to jelly. Terrible if the questions raised over safety are true. RIP and condolences to his family.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@davidof, I am sure that will console his family when FIS are found accountable for his death.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Kooky, he was training, nothing to do with FIS.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I can't find the link now, but I read an article yesterday in which the resort was claiming the teams were responsible for their own safety stuff; pre-emptively trying to cover its back was what it sounded like.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
eng_ch wrote:
I can't find the link now, but I read an article yesterday in which the resort was claiming the teams were responsible for their own safety stuff; pre-emptively trying to cover its back was what it sounded like.
If the investigation were to show that the safety netting was of the wrong type for race training or incorrectly positioned then I guess it comes down to whose responsibility was it to set up the netting - the resort or the teams?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Either way, catching an edge and sliding into netting shouldn't end up with you going into a tree; it's surely what the netting is for, so I imagine whoever is responsible for installing the netting is likely to be a tad worried now
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
This was very sad news indeed. A really nice guy. He will be greatly missed by everyone around the area. He did so much for the local kids racing.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Things are a bit different once you are involved into this, then they look from sofa in warm living room. In this case, responsibility is on team, as team is responsible for setting up course (including netting). But not to make it any longer, I will just copy and paste my post from some other forum:
Maybe I have a bit different view to all this, as I was actually out there in middle of night putting these things up in the past. I agree safety should be first and most important part, but in real life things get a bit different. You really can't compare races and training, unfortunately, but you really can't. They just started putting A-nets up week or two ago in Kitzbuehel and race is there in middle of January. Having A-nets put up for training is simply not possible, unless you have some race track dedicated as training center only, and not as normal ski resort (read: Copper Mountain). Normal training courses, even for DH, are normally just plain ski runs in middle of ski resort, which is closed on morning. Normally, once racers leave (around 10 or 11am), nets are removed, gates are pulled out and stored till next morning and run is open for normal people.
With A-netting you need infrastructure (masts, wires etc.) where nets are hanging, and installing these nets takes days. With b-nets, you just drill holes into snow, and stick poles with net there. Considering most of these nets on training courses are taken off after training is done, to enable normal skiers use that run, and to enable grooming trails on evening/night, and they are installed again early on morning before training starts. Every day in and out.
We have all lived with this for years and years, knowing it's anything but perfect, but everyone simply take it into account, as we all know (knew in my case, as that's far past for me) there's unfortunately simply no other way then this, even if from security point of view, it's anything but perfect.
But on the other side, also A-nets are not 100% safe (remember Beltrametti few years ago), and with a little bad luck things can go wrong even with perfect protection.
@primoz, Thanks for that informed contribution. I now appreciate the time and effort required to install A-nets and why as you say in most training cases it isn't practical to do so.
I have seen A-netting in Kitzbuhel, Zauchensee, etc. I realise it's pretty much a permanent fixture, well at least the masts are. I had no idea the DH and SG skiers did full speed training on courses that don't routinely have it.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
That's interesting, thanks for the information @primoz,.
After all it is free
After all it is free
They don't have A nets at Nakiska. Whether that will change or not I don't know. The U16s were going to be racing Super G there this season. That may change.
Like @primoz, said, the FIS rules are for the races. Here in Alberta, Alberta Alpine owns netting and its their netting we use for races. Training is different and I think its the resorts netting.
Training, rightly or wrongly , is different. The speed track was used in the morning then they would be off the hill for the late morning and afternoon. Training speed is hard as the whole run has to be shut and on this occasion there was more than one team sharing the track. Both training the same course.
I suspect in this case the contract states that the teams are responsible for safety but the resort probably provided the netting and the practicality of international teams providing netting for a few days training is tricky. Certainly A nets cannot be provided. A nets are engineered structures. The team could probably take it or leave it.
Then there would be a course setter and it's possible to set courses with spill zones that direct spilled skiers into the sides. On a race day, there are loads of coaches who could complain about safety and there is a jury who could change a course if they felt it to be not that safe. In other words there are third party checks. Training, this doesn't happen; usually one course setter and away they go. No idea who set course on Monday.
I think, quite rightly, this will spark a big debate about training safety. Well, I hope it will. I think we could find downhill to be a dying event. The training space and time is really difficult as it is and it may be the price is too high and the safety requirements make it impractical for many. I have two racing kids; I really find speed to be: expensive due to the requirement for training days and skis and worrying from safety perspective. Speed events essentially mean more missed school and therefore the trade off just doesn't seem to be there. A speed (SG) race for my U14 is a 4 day race event. Two days race and two days training. That makes it very expensive.
I think with all that , we will see speed skiing really declining. I think resorts (and parents) will be hesitant to offer training and racing for kids and so the whole event will decline in numbers. As kids ski it less it will also become more dangerous, because the number of training days will decline.
Like I said, I hope there is a full frank debate and areas which are now seemingly grey, will become clearer
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Reading the tributes to David gives you some idea of the man he was.
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@gryphea, @primoz, thanks for the insight. Nonetheless, whoever is/was responsible for installing the netting, an outcome like this is surely a negligence suit waiting to happen? That netting is installed implies a risk assessment has been carried out and the spot deemed to be hazardous enough in the event of a fall to warrant netting in the first place
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