So we can't go skiing until 7 April. University holidays, exams and internships have conspired to screw up any other date for a complete set of Joneses to hit the slopes. But we want some gnarl. And we have only one chance to make it work this year so we want some reliable gnarl.
Option 1 would be a high European place like Val d'Isere or Va Thorens or with a guide for the week. Maybe we could even go ski touring if our pampered lads can cope with the idea of sleeping in dormitories. I know and understand these possibilities.
Option 2 would be some place in Canada (flights to most USA resorts, especially Utah, are stupid expensive for our dates). I hear that Whistler and Banff/Lake Louise usually have decent April skiing. But I have no idea whether that means that the pistes will be in decent shape but all of the double blacks are likely to be closed. Or full of slush. Or rock hard in the morning and like a river in the afternoon. I'm not knocking the idea of cruising the blues, but the Jones boys have their heart in some proper gnarl.
What say the snowHeads?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
No guarantees but last year around this way we had the best snow of the season in April!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I assume you're not asking if anyone can forecast the snowfall for next April.
It depends what you mean by "gnarl" - anywhere will be fine if you mean park stuff. If you want to ride powder, then you need to look at the whole season's snowfall....
I did hear that Europe got *their* best snow late season, but that probably didn't fall on a great base... but that was last season.
It feels to me that overall seasons are "moving later", so last year I rode in May, where as years ago I would ride in November. I'd be relaxed about April, although it's past the peak for places like Whistler.
Utah? Last season's data is easy to review, but you can check previous seasons too and remind yourself that each season is different from the last. Wait until you know the conditions, then buy the flights. That's the only way I know to guarantee good conditions. Canada... depends on season, again. Risk reduction there would be as per Utah, or slightly riskier would be to fly in and hire a car, which means you can drive to the best conditions. It's unlikely to be all shot. I'll wait and see where it is, then go there.
@philwig, thanks for that link to historical snowfall data. I can't believe that I've never previously managed to find it myself.
I'm obviously not dumb enough to look for a snowfall forecast for April 2018. But the odds of good snowfall vary hugely from place to place. Some resorts will have good snow in April only in an exceptional year; others will have poor snow only in an exceptional year. A decent data source like you've pointed me at will help me to maximise my odds.
Booking late is an interesting idea. I've always avoided it in the past as finding flights and accommodation for five at short notice can be challenging. Going late in the season should ease that problem, though. Your advice might just be spot-on.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Skiing at Sunshine or louise is Canada is usually good at that time. There can be good snowfall. It can also be freeze thaw, i.e. frontside at louise can be a bit icy. Many resorts (not louise or sunshine) will shut around this time, not really because of snow, but because the golf in the valleys has started.
Gnarl is in the bowels of the beholder - rather than scratching out lines on scoured out off-piste rockfests, late season is the perfect time to get into freestyle. Plenty in and around the Euro resorts like Tignes and should it choose to dump you can take advantage, or look at roadtripping some of the US resorts like Mammoth, Bear and Tahoe which have excellent parks which regularly stay open (truely horrific conditions allowing) till early July.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The UCPA in Tignes is showing a guided Off Piste week that in Tignes.
I've not done UCPA but they get a great write up
After all it is free
After all it is free
Option 1 for me. Still comparatively early for touring, but if you're after powder (or at least pleasurable snow) in April then a guide is the person who will find it. If you didn't want to do a multi day tour then a series of day tours (lift and skin) from a comfortable bed would be ideal.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I did a UCPA trip last year, in Chamonix, and I didn't enjoy it Various reasons, but mostly found it overly ordered, and restrictive. Most people seemed to like it though.
If you can go a week later, have you though about the EOSB? Admin organises great guides, and there are a huge amount of skiers at all abilities looking for adventures. The final day of the EOSB last year was my best ski day of the whole winter - guided offpiste, and late April - but simply brilliant fun. Similarly, the offpiste skiing I was doing on the same week the year before was outstanding too.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
The say few years snowheads has done a small bash the week before the end of season bash. It's usually a catered chalet in Val thorens and it woukd be that week. It's not confirmed yet but there's a good chance it will go ahead. Have a look in snowEvents under Forthcoming snowHeads Events and you will see it just before eosb. This is link to last year's trip. I did it a couple if years ago and it was great and superb value as it's catered and includes ski pass.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I would hope conditions are good in most places early April, but for late season consider Riksgräsen, Narvikfjell etc, and for ski touring I’ve not been but there are some Snowheads that are big fans of Lofoten http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=131507&highlight=lofoten or Lyngen Alps.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
If you can go a week later, have you though about the EoSB?
So popular that I believe the EOSB 2018 is already full, so places available only if cancellations occur. There's still the possibility of the week before that if a bash is confirmed for then.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@intermediate, the eosb 2018 is not even bookable yet. The link leads you to last year's bash for information only. No one has booked yet but it will be popular once the buttons appears. So anyone will be able to book once the buttons appesr
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Themasterpiece, +1
For real gnarl get to Riksgränsen and hire a helicopter.
@speachmaus, I think the 2 weeks is referring to the 20 quid discount available if you pay the deposit by the 8th November, rather than a definite preEoSB.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I see that. But presumed it was referring to pre + eosb but maybe it means any 2 bashes. It's not very clear. Maybe #Admin can clarify?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@speachmaus, oops, thanks for putting me right. Good news anyway!
I would book a guide as our one took us to places/routes that we would never have found without him.
We did some four star routes (as per the ESF guidebook) and they were pretty full on - the five star routes would have serious gnar points.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@JoyZipper, Thanks. Looks like you had a great time. We've gone off-piste in the Espace Killy in April a couple of times before and, as you say, a guide can almost always find some stuff to excite the surliest teenager. I'm trying to work out whether to do more of the same or to try something different next year.
@Jonny Jones, try a different resort for variety? I am biased to Verbier but Zermatt also great late season with the option of Italian heli drops? Possibly better use of your cash if transatlantic flights expensive. Unfortunately the thing which will make the most difference is snow conditions, the one thing you can’t control.... if you do this and are on a budget get Italian guides rather than Swiss.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Wait a week then hit the EOSB. You certainly won't lack for fun skiing though it is often of the corn and spray variety rather than pow pow (though the latter is not impossible). Guiding with Phillipe is very good value and there are usually enough other sHs that know the go to lines by time of day that coming up short on skiing is not really an option. You can even just lap Lac de Lou all day every day with grandmasunshine if that's your bag.
After all it is free
After all it is free
BobinCH wrote:
...Possibly better use of your cash if transatlantic flights expensive...
It's a strange thing pricing up a North American ski trip. Flights are certainly more expensive, as are lift passes. But accommodation is much, much cheaper and you don't need a pay for a guide to access glades, bowls, steeps and powder.
The price for five in Whistler's 5* Fairmont Chateau is £1,500 less than my favourite 2* hideaway in central Val d'Isere, the lovely Hotel Le Kern. Add five days of private guiding and France is actually more expensive than Whistler despite the flights.
I'm sure that I could find cheaper options in the Alps; I could also find cheaper options in Canada. But this isn't so much about the price as about how best to enjoy a precious, narrow window of opportunity when the whole family can be together despite work, university, exams and other travel commitments. And I certainly take your point that one thing I should consider is freshening things up with a different Alpine resort, possibly in a different country.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
But accommodation is much, much cheaper
It maybe you happened to dig up a special/promotion rate. Read the fine print. Or look at a few alternatives, on both side of the pond.
I do get the no-guides-needed advantage of North America.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
On your topic of snow - went to Banff last year, and worked with the time difference to get the first bus out in the morning, then the 3pm bus back as the south faces were starting to melt. In bed by 9pm, sleep, repeat.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@abc, it’s a special rate for sure, but it’s through a trusted agent, American Ski Classics who’ve saved me many £’000s in previous years on hotels and lift passes so it’s certainly real with no dodgy small print.
@orange200, when did you travel? That sounds like a typical April experience? Presumably the resort also has trails that aren’t south facing, though?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I would expect everywhere to have good snow in early April, with decent coverage and lovely corn.
Everywhere I've been to in April has also had a mix of deep powder, nice slush, and miserable re-frozen hardpack at some time of the month.
I know you're totally aware that you can't predict the weather and are looking for a general feeling, but it isn't any more possible then that it is at other times of the season - the weather at the time will dictate everything.
I'd say your chances of good snow in the Alps are better in April than January though, as long as by good by snow you mean soft. If you want real gnar, it's definitely the best time of season to be chasing steeps and couloirs as stability is usually good and if something is too firm/icy you can often just wait an hour for more grip as it softens.
For more of an adventure, April is prime time for Alaska, Norway and Iceland, if you have the budget. Georgia (heliskiing/touring more than resort), Russia and Kyrgyzstan also in full swing.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Jonny Jones wrote:
@abc, it’s a special rate for sure, but it’s through a trusted agent, American Ski Classics who’ve saved me many £’000s in previous years on hotels and lift passes so it’s certainly real with no dodgy small print.
When you find a good deal, you take it!
With the lodging deal, it offsets the cost of the flight. You're on even footing cost-wise Europe vs North America. So it's just a matter of finding the right resort that ticks your boxes. You seem to have already considered much of the pros and cons on Alps vs NA in general.
Snow-wise, there should be plenty in either side of the pond. I like spring skiing. My experience is a lot of the gnarly stuff becomes less gnarly in spring: a combination of abundant snow coverage by that time of the season and, if you time it to the right part of the day, soft and forgiving. As a rule, I tend to step it up a notch in spring time. I think that's probably true of both side of the pond too. You just need to find the right resort.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
The Tignes/ Val d'Isere videos look rather thin to me - I'd be hoping for more fresh snow in mid April, but I guess it wasn't a great year there. But if you pick and choose there are usually places with more snow than that at that time.
I'm a lazy snowboarder, but for me the main differences in spring I care about are:
the snow is corn so you need to be somewhat picky about what you ride
the days are longer
there's less fresh snow
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Jonny Jones wrote:
Option 2 would be some place in Canada (flights to most USA resorts, especially Utah, are stupid expensive for our dates). I hear that Whistler and Banff/Lake Louise usually have decent April skiing. But I have no idea whether that means that the pistes will be in decent shape but all of the double blacks are likely to be closed. Or full of slush. Or rock hard in the morning and like a river in the afternoon. I'm not knocking the idea of cruising the blues, but the Jones boys have their heart in some proper gnarl.
I've not skied in Whistler in April. But I did in Banff. April is not considered "late" by their standard.
In terms of terrain open, you're better off in April than in December. The thick base (of many metre of compacted snow) takes a long time to melt off. In April, that process still have to compete with new snow falling from the sky from time to time. When I was there in April, everything was still fully open and fully snow covered. Whether you want to ski them or not is a different matter...
Past March, you need to learn some "snow science" in order to NOT end up skiing rock hard snow in the morning followed by rivers in the afternoon (or even midday). That's a bit of an "art" that takes some experience. Fortunately, both Whistler and Sunshine/Lake Louise has ski hosts who knows the mountain intimately to help (if you ask the right question).
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Thanks, @abc. I think I'm warming to the Canada idea and the lads are making the same noises. It's been a few years since we headed across the pond and the deals look too good to miss this year.
I get the thing about the art of finding the right slopes at the right time but some resorts can be very uniform and, particularly late season, I find that you really need to have a wide variety of elevations and aspects to be able to find the right conditions - high and north first thing, lower and south-facing once the sun's been out for an hour, move up the mountain as the temperature rises, etc. I've never been to Banff/Lake Louise or Whistler, but my research suggests that they should provide plenty variety of options if the weather is misbehaving.
The North American ski host culture is fantastic in my experience. There always seems to be someone hanging around just waiting to be asked where the best snow can be found, and the hosts are always really well informed about conditions on the day. It's something a lot of European resorts would do well to imitate.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
but some resorts can be very uniform and, particularly late season, I find that you really need to have a wide variety of elevations and aspects to be able to find the right conditions -
Whistler definitely fit that description!
Banff does too but in a different way (slightly less efficient way). Because the 2 mountains (Sunshine & Lake Louise) are not linked, not even possible to ski in the same day, you have to make a decision in the morning which mountain to ski, and then how to go about the day's route.
But it really depends on your luck. Some years, April can be almost mid-winter condition! No hunting around needed. And if it turns out to be a warm year, you do the hunting around and the mountain actually "ski big(ger)" due to the changing condition making the same section ski differently as the day goes by!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Jonny Jones, decent corn can be as good as powder IMHO & more chance of hitting that with a bonus powder day or two in April. We went at Easter for years and I think had fresh snow on every trip bar one. Most of the large Alpine resorts that have a variety of slopes facing different directions is all you need IMHO
@orange200, when did you travel? That sounds like a typical April experience? Presumably the resort also has trails that aren’t south facing, though?
Second half of March. The locals said it was the worst season in years, but it seemed fine to me!
Louise has many trails indeed, look at a map. Sunshine is half the size in skiable acres but I agree with others here who said the snow was a bit drier, that late in the season.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Various reasons, but mostly found it overly ordered, and restrictive. Most people seemed to like it though.
oops, thanks for putting me right. Good news anyway!
