 Poster: A snowHead
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Evening Snowheads!
Just a quick Snowheads up to let you know we'll be launching our new magnetic 'Talisman' Goggle through Kickstarter on Monday 2nd October at 6pm.
* 40% OFF for the first 50 people *
You'll find the whole product spec on the campaign, but feel free to post your questions below and we'll come back to you quick sharp!
Speak soon!
[/spoiler]
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And some aspirationally priced no name brand is a must have why?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Pretty sure my lad has some Summit goggles. Got some magnetic ones for his bday last season and left them at home when we went away! Look pretty decent to be fair
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We were a no name brand a few years back Dave, but I'd like to think we're passed that phase.... hopefully anyway!
Buying equipment is like searching for music, if you only listen to what's put in front of you on the radio, that's all you'll ever hear. But when you dig a little deeper, beautiful things start to appear.
Thanks Endoman, that's great to hear! Hopefully he'll get to use them this season. What model did you go for out of curiosity?
Email me a hi-res Snowheads logo Admin, i'll attach the snow heads logo to one of our goggles, then we'll post it back on Snowheads and see what sort of interest we get... If we get over 500 thumbs up, we'll produce it.
How does that sound? 
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I'll ask him when I get home. He has a couple of pairs.
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He has the expose 2. Also knows about the talisman coming out.
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Superb!
Talisman is a similar build structure as Xpose II, except we've upgrade the lenses, added a polarised filter and modified the strap logo... and it's a cylindrical lens design of course.
Thank him for the ongoing support, much appreciated
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks Fixx, that's super kind of you! Glad your friend is happy also, always good to hear!
Tim is a lovely chap. In fact, Snow Shepherd are the only retailers we've kept in the UK. I'll spare the details, but we just found retailers in the UK too tricky to work with. Tim/Snow Shepherd were one of the only UK companies who kept things simple and helped us grow as a brand, instead of driving prices into the floor. Extremely knowledgable as well! *****
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've got a pair of Summit xpose magnetic. They're ace!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ace on your face... thanks Disaster!
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OK, so what makes these worth £130 when https://www.outdoormaster.com/products/ski-goggles-pro?variant=33600653768 has something which is almost if not completely identical at $44 (about £33), which includes a curved hard case which you're charging £15 extra for?
I bought 2 pairs of the OutdoorMaster ones last year, and apart from a minor condensation problem in one lens when it rained hard on one day, they've been excellent.
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You know it makes sense.
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A tricky subject to tackle without offending anyone and I try not to comment on other brands too much Ousekjarr without seeing them, but if you're happy with yours, great!
What I would say is, there is an influx of brands/companies who are willing to buy volume from China, stack it high and sell it cheap, Amazon is riddled with it. Their businesses are built on volume and they aren't trying to create or specialise in anything lasting... just trying to turn a quick profit before moving onto the next thing/trend. In my personal opinion, it's cold, has no substance and isn't sustainable. We'll still be here in 20 years time trying to master our craft.
On their website you'll find a pair of ski goggles next to a tent, pocket blanket and an inflatable mattress?? Alarms bells!
I've personally been working with goggles/eyewear since 2004, each design and every component is thought about and sourced very carefully. I'll put my neck out (which will probably get me in trouble) and say this is an off the shelf goggle from Taiwan, cheap components/materials and even cheaper labour/working conditions.
We are all different and value things differently, we also all have different budgets, so it's horses for courses.
I'll wrap up by saying that it costs us more to manufacture our Summit goggles, than they are selling theirs for... For me that speaks volumes.
Thanks for your input Ousekjarr, really appreciated!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ps. By the way... I love Snowheads! Why didn't I get on this sooner? Real time engagement with real people. Right on the front line, awesome!
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Poster: A snowHead
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@summitworldwide, thanks for the response, and welcome to Snowheads! You'll find that we're an argumentative bunch, but we do have a passion for snow and so it seems do you.
I get that you're working in a specialised area and have concentrated on that rather than on a scattergun approach to finding something which makes a profit. What I don't get at the moment is what makes your googles so much better than those I highlighted - are the lenses different, better in some way, or is there more padding, or do you have a manufacturing agreement with a corporate ethics requirement to avoid the cheap labour and poor working conditions?
I think you are right in your assertion that this is an off the shelf goggle from Taiwan. What "speaks volumes" to me is that they've probably bought in volume - several thousand of them and were here on Snowheads last year trying to sell them and get some interest going around them, while I suspect that you've bought a hundred or so of the same item or something similar, invested in a design for the band and produced a die for the hard case, and got a much higher cost so have to sell them for a premium price to cover this. If this isn't the case then accept my apologies - but that's how it looks to the untutored eye.
By engaging with us, you automatically have an excellent opportunity to explain why these are better technically, or ethically, and why we should buy them rather than something boring like Oakley, Smith, etc...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ha! Arguments, time is best spent elsewhere. Constructive, fact driven conversation is where it's at.
They haven't got the following to sell volume, which means they aren't buying in volume. I obviously don't know, but my guess is they found a factory to make them a short run of between 500/1000 units for a quick profit.
It is really hard for the consumer to distinguish the difference between fact and marketing. Oakley are pros at marketing and i'm still trying to find out the science behind the Prizm lens (anyone?!) Prizm aside, I do like their goggles/sunglasses and Smith make great optics, albeit a little boring on the design front in my opinion.
I could write a book on why goggles are priced differently and although I'd like to say it's 100% about materials, that would be a just a little short-sighted... there is heaps to consider.
I'll have to keep this short, as there are too many to list now...
* Quality of lens (Fabricated in Italy with high grade Polarised filter)
* Higher grade strap vs cheaply printed strap, which will fade
* Silicon logo vs cheaply stitched label
* Packaging/Presentation - We don't do the whole flimsy paper box thing
* Plastic clips vs nylon buckles which are more durable in cold temps
* Mould fees (There are no fewer than 7 mould fees on Talisman and Xpose II for that matter. Lens logo, strap logo, frame mould and lens mould, lens case zip pullar, lens case logo, lens case - These are very comfortably into 5 figures + design time/fees)
* Business strategy (We have 150 retailers cross Europe, so we have to allow margin for our distributor, wholesaler and end retailer)
* Brand (We're established, proven and a specialist in our field, you pay for peace of mind and guaranteed quality)
... not to mention making an actual living, or touching on ethics, of which there is certification involved. Quick link, if you really want to read - https://qualityinspection.org/manufacturer-certified-iso-9001/
In short and as mentioned in our Kickstarter campaign, our production costs have nearly quadrupled over the years as the quality of our product has increased, which is exactly why we are turning to Kickstarter. We need your help, so I hope that offers a little clarity on what's involved, I know we're skimming the surface, so please accept my apologies for cutting this short again... I've still about a hundred media outlets to contact to help drive the campaign.
Great chatting with you all and I thought I'd finish on a fun(ish) fact.
I was chatting with our distributor who's also a distributor for Oakley... he mentioned that Dragon had a production run of around 600,000 units last season... 600k.
What would Oakley's be then?!
Have a good evening!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Now we're getting somewhere. Now I know I'd be paying to cover mould fees on a zip puller and a logo I'm not really interested.
What would float my boat would be lenses the quality/ light transmission of Oakley Prizms or Smith Chromapop in a basic frame with no frills and without the yoouge brand premium. What it seems to me is that you're trying to create a kind of junior premium brand. Nothing wrong with that but that's a tough place to stick around 20 years.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Let's flip this... Here's a question for you Dave, how much would you be prepared to pay for our new Talisman goggle?
Taking everything into consideration, including the 18 months it's taken us to create it... This is always a great game and a real eye opener for brands.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@summitworldwide, I am debating if your kick starter price is good enough for me at the moment but I have her good things, I am sure eye wear outlet were going to drive prices down hard and you do need to make a living much as I don't want to pay a lot!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| summitworldwide wrote: |
Let's flip this... Here's a question for you Dave, how much would you be prepared to pay for our new Talisman goggle?
Taking everything into consideration, including the 18 months it's taken us to create it... This is always a great game and a real eye opener for brands. |
Well my opening bid is what I paid for the last pair of goggles I bought - some high yellow low light double screens from Decathlon. Acceptable design from a brand which is a known quantity. Sub £20. See I'm less about the frills more the business model
PS I do a lot of skiing. Probably much more than the average Oakley user.
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To be clear I'm not against high end goggles I'm just not your target market - budget bling seasonnairez maybe?
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Stepson No 2 has a small sponsorship deal with Summit ( just finishing his third season teaching out in Treble Cone/6th back to back winter seasons in total). He definitely likes the kit.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The biggest hurdles for anyone selling into this market is to persuade people that they need the interchangeable lens feature, and that the magnets are strong enough to ensure that the lens stays in place when you want/need it to. Falling in powder can give you enough problems without having to first clear the snow out of your eyes so that you can find the lens which popped off on impact.
My experience so far with magnetic lenses has actually been very good - I have two lenses, one for bright days, and one for low light and night skiing, and the process to change them is quick and simple. There's no need to line up the lens - the magnets do that for you, and the lens simply pops into place and fits well. I've also had a couple of tumbles while wearing them, and have not had the lens separate from the frame.
The only minor issue is that I've got into the habit of raising my goggles by grabbing the frame around the bridge of my nose and lifting upwards, and now that I have rimless goggles with magnetic lenses, all that does is remove the lens... I've just about adjusted to doing it by grabbing the sides where the strap attaches instead, but it took a while.
@summitworldwide, in your favour is that (as far as I can see from your YouTube channel) the £130 price includes two lenses, where the ones I bought only had one, and it seems that the hard case does indeed come in the box, so the £15 price on your website is for an extra/replacement one I presume unless some of your models don't include it. The box is nice, but the reality is that I will throw it out 30 seconds after opening it, so I'm unlikely to be too bothered whether it has one or not - but I understand that retailers may want one to help in their merchandising and storage rather than a curved, lumpy case.
As for how much I'd be prepared to pay for it, if the lens is improved over what I have and is close to Oakley Prizm standard, then I'd say £60-80 at least, and the extra lens is worth £20-30, but then like Dave I buy kit to help me ski, not for posing on the balconies of champagne bars. I've owned Oakley goggles before and really liked them, but now that they're selling stuff at £175-200 rather than the £50 I paid for mine 8 years ago in the end of season sale, I look at that and think that the £100 extra represents more than half of my beer budget for a week's skiing with the lads, or two really good meals out 
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I've got some Summit goggles to try after someone on the EoSB recommended them, we'll see what they're like this season 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hiya Perty, is this Bradley Fry or young Palmer Parish? Either way... incredible futures they've got ahead of them, it's going to be very exciting watching them develop their skills.
On the subject, if you guys know of any young British talent, we're always looking to support, so please put them in touch with us 👍🏻
I think we're hitting the nail on the head Dave, unfortunately it doesn't sound like you're our target market... but that's totally cool. We're united by snow either way
We're in the process of developing a transitional lens for a new goggle design, so we can offer the option to only need one lens. At the moment the transition takes around 45 seconds, which in my opinion is too long. Transitional lenses also don't give you enough spectrum of change/colour (IMO) for your average joe who really need a definitive low-light lens/bright light lens to help them in tough/sunny conditions. If you're skiing/boarding at a high standard, you're quite happy absorbing lumbs/bumps and have likely gotten over the fear when tricky conditions set in, or when the sun decides to show its face... which is why we supply 2 lenses.
It's good that you've adapted how you move your goggles onto your head... a basic frameless magnetic in its most basic form, is a layer of foam sandwiched together between two layers of polycarbonate. As you pull the front lens to lift the goggles, you're relying on the glue to hold the polycarbonate together... over a period of time, they'll separate and you have space for moisture to creep in... RIP goggles.
We spend a lot of time on our packaging, maybe too long... although it may not directly enhance the product, but it's part of the experience of investing in our goggles. When it arrives (in tact) beautifully boxed, you know straight away you've invested in quality, something you can be really proud of and something that is going to last... and for retailers it looks beautiful on the shelf. Imagine if Apple dispatched their products in flimsy paper boxes 👎🏻
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I bought some summit goggles last year, very happy I did. Keep the 2nd lens in my jacket pocket or backpack depending on the day....the magnetic connection is very good, its never failed despite multiple spills and thrills over the year. I've stupidly dropped the goggles face down in car parks a few times, leading to some scratches, but I don't think I can blame Summit for that . Handy knowing I can just order replacement lenses when I totally knacker them. The product itself does feel like a premium product, straps are definitely much better than those on cheaper pairs I've owned in the past, and the lenses perform very well indeed, no misting and really good definition from the low light lens particularly.
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That's too kind coddlesangers, thanks very much for the feedback, really appreciated!
The day we can make lens coatings so tough that they can withstand car park drops and whacks from chair lift bars, we'll be shouting it at the top of our lungs. Fortunately the lenses can be replaced at a fairly affordable price if need be.
Make sure you drop me a line before ordering if you do feel you need to replace them, i'll personally make sure you're looked after.
Happy friday folks!
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You know it makes sense.
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Another satisfied customer for the Summit magnetic goggles. My eyesight's not what it was and it's a big advantage to change to the low-light lens mid-afternoon with no hassle. I think I paid under £100 this time last year which I thought was a good price for the product. Fancy packaging and a hard case is a bit superfluous though.....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Anyone know how they compare with Sungods? Was quite impressed with those but am in the market for a pair for the little man and always up for trying something new that comes recommended
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Poster: A snowHead
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@summitworldwide was interesting to read about the number of moulds required. Have you looked into 3D printing as a manufacturing process? May also allow you to simplify your design. May even allow you to offer personalised goggles. I'll take a commission if I've just given you a new approach
Guy
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@summitworldwide, Neither of those two-Louis C (was in Zermatt last winter). He films quite a lot of content. I think he still has a deal with you...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Superb Inspark, glad you're happy with them!
We get a huge amount of feedback on how well we package our goggles, for us it's the attention to detail that is REALLY important. Simply put, we just want to make the best product we physically can with our experience.
That extends from the highest grade lens possible, all the way to the brown mailing carton we dispatch them in and everything in-between. It's what makes it special!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ahhh Louis Charnaud! I immediately and wrongly thought of a youngster when you said stepson.
He's doing awesome with his film at the moment, getting some really great exposure through Mons Royale and Whitelines... a very talented chap
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@summitworldwide, @clarky999,
Feeling rather proud...
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| summitworldwide wrote: |
Superb Inspark, glad you're happy with them!
We get a huge amount of feedback on how well we package our goggles, for us it's the attention to detail that is REALLY important. Simply put, we just want to make the best product we physically can with our experience.
That extends from the highest grade lens possible, all the way to the brown mailing carton we dispatch them in and everything in-between. It's what makes it special! |
My lad's came in an Adidas shoe box, but they were seconds or similar ( not that you can tell)
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Umm yeah, must of bought them as seconds... there’s no way we of dispatched in a Adidas shoe box 😂
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@summitworldwide, I see the new goggles come in two sizes - are there any photos comparing the two sizes, and how they fit on people?
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| fixx wrote: |
| @summitworldwide, I see the new goggles come in two sizes - are there any photos comparing the two sizes, and how they fit on people? |
On the same note we dont appear to be able to select which size we want if ordering/buying from Kickstarter, how does that work?
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FAQ
