 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, I'm new to this forum and have a couple of basic questions about skiing that I hope you don't mind answering. 
About me
A few years ago I completed a beginners day course on a dry slope. I had a lot of fun and wanted to continue but, unfortunately, circumstances were against me at the time. The nearest dry slope was too far away (expensive to travel to) for me to go regularly so, after going back only a couple of times, I made the decision to stop. 
Now my situation has improved somewhat, so I'm determined to give skiing another go. I'm going in with the assumption that I'll have forgotten what little I learned before (I never got past snow-ploughing), so anything I manage to remember is a bonus. 
Here are my questions...
1. Skiing on real snow
I will (hopefully) have the opportunity to ski on real snow for the first time next year. *fingers crossed*
I'm going to be getting in as much practise time as I can before then (and some lessons as well) but I'm assuming that skiing on real snow will be a much different experience than the dry slope no matter how much I practise. How big of a learning curve is there going from dry slope to real snow?
2. Renting or buying equipment.
This is my current dilemma: When I went skiing before I rented the equipment (the rental was included in the lesson cost) but I found the boots to be very uncomfortable (both during the day course and the couple of times I went afterwards). Changing the boots made no difference. I was wondering if it might be an idea to buy my own boots this time (I'd still be renting the skis). Would you recommend getting your own boots this early on or should I just 'suck it up' and deal with the pain/discomfort of the rentals in the beginning?
The rental boots really were a downer on my previous experience and I'd like to avoid it this time but, if it really is better to wait for a bit, then I guess I can put up with it for a little while.
Finally, if you have any helpful hints/tips for a beginner I'd appreciate it.
Thanks in advance for your help.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Rem,
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How big of a learning curve is there going from dry slope to real snow?
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IME real snow is much, much easier than a dry slope. If you really want to find out, then take yourself to a 'fridge' (indoor ski slope with man-made snow). Real snow also hurts a lot less when you fall over!
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Would you recommend getting your own boots this early on or should I just 'suck it up' and deal with the pain/discomfort of the rentals in the beginning?
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You will find lots of different views on this, but my take is as follows:
1. The boots at dry ski slopes are almost universally knackered old rubbish and a far cry from the boots you can hire in resort.
2. Buying your own boots does not necessarily equate to having comfortable boots. If you have weird feet then it might be a good idea, but otherwise rental boots do have the advantage that you can change them again and again until you find a comfortable pair and if you still can't find a pair that fits then you can buy a pair in-resort. If you buy your own boots and then find them agonising when on holiday then life is not so easy.
3. Boots are relatively cheap to rent, but can be expensive to transport if you need to buy extra baggage allowance.
4. From a perspective of 'progression' then the boots you want now will not be the same as the ones you want in two-three years.
Overall, I'd suggest you rent for the time being. I've been skiing for 40 years (blimey!) and have owned my own boots in the past. Nowadays, I'm very happy to rent. I find rental boots extremely comfortable and can happily wear them all day without even loosening the buckle at lunchtime. Somebody may argue that this means they don't fit well enough and that they should be more uncomfortable. They may be right, but it works OK for me. At your stage, i'd argue that comfort is far more important than a perfect fit and unless you have feet like Dobby The House Elf then I think you have a better chance of being comfortable in rental boots. BTW, unlike Dobby do make sure to trim your toenails short. That can cause agony!
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You wont have forgotten, but will obviously be a bit rusty, it will soon come back.The easy answe to the differences between dry and snow, snow is far quicker and skis more responsive, more space and time to get a rhythm, usually hurts less when you fall. Will you be having refresher lessons before you go?
ski boots, rental equipment is generally superior in ski resorts, and has moved on over the years. Rental shops do try and get a good fit for you, but dont be afraid to try a few pairs on, you are paying after all. If you like skiing and become a regular then ot is worth while buying boots ... in the UK
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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1. In my opinion dry slope is much harder work than snow. If you can ski on dry slope, when you try snow you will find it much easier. Snow has a lot less friction and all movements require less force to initiate. There will not really be a learning curve from dry slope to real, the progression between any artificial slope (I include indoor snow slopes here) and a mountain environment is the thing that most people can't comprehend. The snow conditions are not consistent, so ice, slush and anything in-between and also the scale of the mountains can be intimidating to nervous beginners.
2. This is a tricky one. The first piece of equipment anyone should purchase should be boots. However when you buy these is more tricky. If, from the amount of skiing you have tried, you feel you love the sport and it's only the boots putting you off, I'd say go for it. I always say that skiing holidays are a marmite thing. You either love or hate them. This often comes from your first experience and the usual negative points from those who don't enjoy tend to be... uncomfortable boots, cold weather, lack of fitness. Make of that what you will. The other thing to consider when buying boots is that as a beginner you will need a softer boot than say if you had a few weeks experience, where you would benefit from a slightly stiffer boot to help progress technique. So cost of the boots vs lifecycle of boots vs the price you put on comfort.
I would also seriously consider buying boots in resort if you choose to buy. Boots change as they break in and can cause comfort issues after a few days. If in resort you can take them back for adjustments until they are perfect.
Hope that helps.
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Dryslope highlights errors in technique far more than real snow does. There will be differences when you first ski on snow, but on the whole you'll find it easier than dryslope.
I bought boots for my first trip but would advise you to rent for a bit. I probably didn't have enough understanding when I bought my boots and have pretty much 'grown out' of them now (which, after 8 trips, makes it an expensive choice). Also as @FastCarver74 says, there's a possibility that you might not enjoy it (although if you enjoy dryslope then you'll probably love proper skiing) so dropping £300+ on a pair of boots might not be best option for first trip. Unfortunately ski boots aren't the most comfortable but you shouldn't be in pain, don't be afraid to head back to the rental place and change them.
In terms of a first trip it might be worth looking at the MYASH Bash, a trip that's sort of organised by snowheads (well, mostly just one bloke, admin). It's aimed at those that are just starting out but gives you a way to ski with a group of others, including 'smart alecs' that can be quite encouraging. I've been on the last two and really enjoyed myself, I also managed to create a 'snowhead' out of my dad by taking him along. Even after the first trip he said that he didn't enjoy skiing...but he went back again this year, plus did another trip and this season may be doing 3 ski holidays!
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@Rem,
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Oh dear. I'm going to be limited to dry slopes for a while so, if I don't buy my own boots, then 'knackered old rubbish' is probably what I'm going to have to get used to.
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If you have problems with the boots at the dry slope you could always try to buy some secondhand boots just for the interim on the dendix. Secondhand boots are highly unlikely to fit well enough for a long term solution, but may be better than the "borrow" boots. You could probably get a pair to see you through this interim period for a matter of tens of pounds.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| FastCarver74 wrote: |
| This is a tricky one. The first piece of equipment anyone should purchase should be boots. However when you buy these is more tricky. If, from the amount of skiing you have tried, you feel you love the sport and it's only the boots putting you off, I'd say go for it. |
| SnoodlesMcFlude wrote: |
| I bought boots for my first trip but would advise you to rent for a bit. I probably didn't have enough understanding when I bought my boots and have pretty much 'grown out' of them now (which, after 8 trips, makes it an expensive choice). Also as @FastCarver74 says, there's a possibility that you might not enjoy it (although if you enjoy dryslope then you'll probably love proper skiing) so dropping £300+ on a pair of boots might not be best option for first trip. Unfortunately ski boots aren't the most comfortable but you shouldn't be in pain, don't be afraid to head back to the rental place and change them. |
From the little bit of experience that I had in the past I can say I had a LOT of fun skiing. The uncomfortable boots were a major downer for me though and switching them made no difference, however, I agree that splurging on a pair of boots is probably not a good idea until I've at least had a taste of the real thing.
It will be a while before I go away so, if I did buy my own boots, it would have to be in the UK from a local shop. I was thinking that doing that would give me time to try them out on a dry slope and make sure they're comfortable but, from what you've said, maybe I'd just end up 'out growing' them before I go anyway and it would be pointless?
Hmm, I think I'm leaning more towards sticking with rentals and just being a bit of a pain when trying them on (hopefully the guys working there don't get too annoyed if you take boots back several times?). 
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| SnoodlesMcFlude wrote: |
| MYASH Bash |
Should have clarified, this is a trip to Livigno (Make Yourself A SnowHead) aimed at beginners but open to all. You get a reasonable mix of people that are learning and those that already have the hang of it and are either there with friends/family that are learning or just because the dates work and give them a good trip. This is a link to last year's thread http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=127062
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Rem, a different view from me. Given what you've done so far, I'd suggest giving the dry slope a miss - you will find yourself progressing rapidly in beginner lessons in resort. Book lessons for a whole week - preferably in a small (not more than 6) group though that will be more expensive. Yes, dry slopes are effective for learning but not much fun if the boots are very uncomfortable. Your time might be as well be spent getting fitter - with some ski-specific exercises and general stuff like cycling uphill. Are you reasonably fit/sporty? If so, that advice is probably superfluous. But if you're not, it's vital. The early days of learning to ski can be physically exhausting to people who are unfit, unsupple and not used to exercise.
Lessons in a fridge are more expensive but more fun! Same old knackered boots though.... In a decent resort shop they will have a range for you to try. I wouldn't buy boots yet.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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and welcome to Snowheads. 
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@Rem, the more lessons you have on dry before you go, the more you will get out of the lessons on holiday and the more you will see of the mountain. NB i still have a lesson most times I go (normally just a 2hr private) and I learnt to ski as a child and had lessons every year I went as a child as well.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Rem, If you add your (rough) location to your profile it'll appear next to your user name and people might be adle to suggest good shops to try for boots and also any nearby fridges.
Well fitting boots will help your skiing and shouldn't be uncomfortable and definetely not painful. The issue is getting a good fit when you don't have the experience to know what that realy is. With that in mind you'd be better advised to use an indy' boot fitters than one of the highstreet shops where service might not be as experienced. If it does turn out youhave odd feet then a good boot fitter would be able to alter the best fitting ones to a custom fit for you. If you choose instead to persevere with hire boots, then in resort the shops will have a much wider selection of hire boots to try and get a good fit. Different makes and models fit differently.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| adithorp wrote: |
| @Rem, If you add your (rough) location to your profile it'll appear next to your user name and people might be adle to suggest good shops to try for boots and also any nearby fridges. |
Done.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Rem Any decent hire shop in resort will not only let you try on a range of boots at outset, but also let you swap them after an hour / morning / day if they are not right.
The only reason I can think of for buying early is if your legs are "non-standard" in some way. E.g. knock-kneed or bow-legged, so that when you stand relaxed on skis, the skis are not flat on the ground but are tilted to one side (it can be easier to tell this on a shop floor, than on real snow). In that case then ideally you need boots that compensate, and in my experience it is more difficult to find hire boots with appropriate adjustments.
It took me 3 years before a friend pointed out why I kept catching an outside edge - that's when I bought my own boots!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Welcome.
+what pam w says
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Fridges and dry ski slopes:
Yes, you will progress faster when you are actually on holiday but my experience of dry slopes is that they are such utterly miserable and depressing places that they are just as likely to to put you off altogether. Crowded and grubby with rubbish kit. Fridges may be better but I suspect they are just as crowded. So,... yes they are a good idea but I wouldn't beat yourself up over it and don't feel they are obligatory.
@ecureuil,
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The only reason I can think of for buying early is if your legs are "non-standard" in some way. E.g. knock-kneed or bow-legged,
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or extra toes.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| RobinS wrote: |
@Rem,
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Oh dear. I'm going to be limited to dry slopes for a while so, if I don't buy my own boots, then 'knackered old rubbish' is probably what I'm going to have to get used to.
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If you have problems with the boots at the dry slope you could always try to buy some secondhand boots just for the interim on the dendix. Secondhand boots are highly unlikely to fit well enough for a long term solution, but may be better than the "borrow" boots. You could probably get a pair to see you through this interim period for a matter of tens of pounds. |
I have to say that I don't agree with this advice at all.
Incorrect boots (especially unfitted, incorrect boots) can cause:
- Discomfort (reducing the enjoyment)
- Damage to your feet and joints
- Hinderance to developing good skiing
It is not good advice, IMO, to recommend that anyone gets bad boots as a lesser evil than really bad boots.
To the OP... I do understand others feelings when it comes to not buying boots straight away, however I feel that a lot of people who started off on what turned out to be the 'wrong' boots did so because they bought them before understanding how to buy the right boots. You're in the right place already, and if you attend a decent bootfitter you should have no difficulty in being able to buy a brand new pair of the 'right' boots which will last you many years to come. So if you are convinced that you do want to spend a lot of time on the dry slope or fridge, I'd go against the general train of thought and say DO buy, but just buy from somebody who knows how to sell you the right boots. (And by that I don't mean any old ski shop)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Rem wrote: |
| adithorp wrote: |
| @Rem, If you add your (rough) location to your profile it'll appear next to your user name and people might be adle to suggest good shops to try for boots and also any nearby fridges. |
Done. |
Which dry ski slope did you use before? I am one end of Hampshire, which makes Snowtrax he closest dry ski slope to me, and I find that dry ski slope really quite a nice one.
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The Snowtrax surface is a lot more forgiving (and less painful) than the dendix at Southampton or Aldershot. It's a much nicer place as well. Having said that the race club at Aldershot is excellent.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| NickyJ wrote: |
| Which dry ski slope did you use before? I am one end of Hampshire, which makes Snowtrax he closest dry ski slope to me, and I find that dry ski slope really quite a nice one. |
I've only been to the one at Southampton.
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| Rem wrote: |
| NickyJ wrote: |
| Which dry ski slope did you use before? I am one end of Hampshire, which makes Snowtrax he closest dry ski slope to me, and I find that dry ski slope really quite a nice one. |
I've only been to the one at Southampton. |
It would be worth you trying Snowtrax. I bought my last boots from them and found there fitting service quite acceptable.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| NickyJ wrote: |
| It would be worth you trying Snowtrax. I bought my last boots from them and found there fitting service quite acceptable. |
Where is the Snowtrax one? Do they have a website?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Rem, I'm a beginner also, at the age of 62. I only started alpine skiing about 2 months ago. I go to my nearest "fridge", the Chillfactore in Manchester and have lessons there. I deliberately avoided my local dry ski slope, because they don't water the slope and when you fall over it can hurt. But if that's all you have near you, then it must be better than nothing.
I used the rental boots for the first couple of sessions in the fridge. They were crippling at worst and damned uncomfortable at best; so I bought my own boots. I'm not suggesting you should buy your own. But mine were so much more comfortable straight out of the box. Then I've had them heat moulded to my feet and had custom insoles made. It makes the whole experience more enjoyable if you are comfortable, as you can concentrate on trying to get your technique right instead of on the nagging pain in your feet. But it really depends if you are sure you are going to definitely keep on skiing in future; or whether you are flirting with it. I'd done cross country skiing 40 years ago, and to this day think it's the most enjoyable thing I've ever done; so I know I'm going to keep at it for the long term (health allowing).
This is a great forum and everyone is so helpful. I'm going on the MyashBash in Livigno that @SnoodlesMcFlude, spoke of; as it's primarily aimed at beginners and intermediate skiers. From what I've read, it would be perfect for you. There is also a Snowheads Ski test day in October in the fridges in Hemel Hemstead and Manchester; where you can test out skis. It may be an opportunity for you to try out some equipment and meet other Snowheads.
What ever you decide, there will be plenty of helpful of advice on this forum for you.
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snowtrax.eu, it's next to the airport at Bournemouth.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Rem, if you are able to get over there in next few weeks they have money off their private lessons
http://www.snowtrax.eu/private-ski-lessons/
They have a nice bar there to have a drink and meal afterwards and their shop is onsite as well. Though clothes from there are eye watering in prices! We have bought mine and hubbies ski poles and my boots from there.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Rem, Given where you are stick with Southampton or Snowtrax, both are excellent places to develop your skills. A trip to Hemel before you go on snow would be great, but it will be very crowded and you'll have the M3 and the M25 to deal with before you get there.
You don't say exactly how much skiing you've done, but please try to buy boots that suit your ability now, rather than what you may want to achieve in the years to come. One of the most important movements you'll want to practise is flexing and extending your ankle, and a stiff set of boots won't help.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Awdbugga wrote: |
| I'm a beginner also, at the age of 62. I only started alpine skiing about 2 months ago. I go to my nearest "fridge", the Chillfactore in Manchester and have lessons there. I deliberately avoided my local dry ski slope, because they don't water the slope and when you fall over it can hurt. But if that's all you have near you, then it must be better than nothing. |
I'm looking at other options but realistically I'll probably be sticking mostly with the dry slopes for now. Although there's no reason I can't mix it up with an occasional visit to a fridge a little further away.
| Awdbugga wrote: |
| But it really depends if you are sure you are going to definitely keep on skiing in future; or whether you are flirting with it. I'd done cross country skiing 40 years ago, and to this day think it's the most enjoyable thing I've ever done; so I know I'm going to keep at it for the long term (health allowing). |
Judging by how I felt when I took the day course a few years ago, I think I'm going to stick at it now that I'm in a position where I can. The only reason I stopped was because it simply wasn't possible for me to carry on at the time.
I'm certainly not going to rush into anything though. I think I'll try and stick it out with rentals for at least the first couple of sessions/lessons. Then, if I still want to keep going (which I'm sure I will ) I can look into getting my own boots or, if by some miracle I find some rental boots that aren't too bad, I might stick to rentals until I go to a resort. If nothing else waiting at least a couple of weeks will give me some more time to research it and do some window shopping. 
| musher wrote: |
| snowtrax.eu, it's next to the airport at Bournemouth. |
Thank you. I'll take a look at that.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| NickyJ wrote: |
@Rem, if you are able to get over there in next few weeks they have money off their private lessons
http://www.snowtrax.eu/private-ski-lessons/
They have a nice bar there to have a drink and meal afterwards and their shop is onsite as well. Though clothes from there are eye watering in prices! We have bought mine and hubbies ski poles and my boots from there. |
Nice! Now I'm really tempted to hop over there and see. This could be perfect timing for me. Thanks for the heads up.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would not buy until you have had a day on the snow in the resort. By then you will know if you are hooked.
Make sure you rent from a shop that also sells boots and explain to the shop that you will buy a pair of boots like the rental boots if they are comfortable. Most shops will then put part or all of the rental fee towards the new boots. At least they did for me. Most shops will be happy to change boots during the week and if they sense that you are serious will often give you a brand new pair then do any adjustments.
I am not sure if this still applies but when I bought my first pair in 1980 I was advised to buy boots manufactured in the same country that you were skiing in and to make sure they had a boot fitter certified by the manufacturer.
Having boots that don't hurt is a major part of enjoying your ski holiday.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Rem wrote: |
| NickyJ wrote: |
@Rem, if you are able to get over there in next few weeks they have money off their private lessons
http://www.snowtrax.eu/private-ski-lessons/
They have a nice bar there to have a drink and meal afterwards and their shop is onsite as well. Though clothes from there are eye watering in prices! We have bought mine and hubbies ski poles and my boots from there. |
Nice! Now I'm really tempted to hop over there and see. This could be perfect timing for me. Thanks for the heads up. |
Good luck. Obviously make sure you book, I hope there are some slots left.
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Fwiw Snowtrax is my local slope and is by far the closest I have tried to real snow (though still nothing like it)
In addition to the comments above, I think they still do a ski all night (well from 6-10) a basket meal and equipment hire for under £25, but do check first. My daughter hires equipment when she goes and finds the boots fine.
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@Rem, I forgot to say that at the dryslope near me, we had a very regular female customer who, like you did a lot on the dryslope before being able to get on snow. Via a secondhand pair of boots we have now been together for 20 years.. and yes, she's a very good skier
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Off the wall suggestions.
Combine the trips with something else.
IF you want to buy boots, solutions4feet in Bicester, combine it with a retail sesh at Bicester Village.
If you want to go to an indoor 'real snow' either book lessons with Rob/scott at inside out skiing in hemel and make a day of it there or go to the snowdome at MIlton keynes and do some shopping, have some lunch, dinner etc.
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This is a great forum and everyone is so helpful. I'm going on the MyashBash in Livigno that @SnoodlesMcFlude, spoke of; as it's primarily aimed at beginners and intermediate skiers. From what I've read, it would be perfect for you. There is also a Snowheads Ski test day in October in the fridges in Hemel Hemstead and Manchester; where you can test out skis. It may be an opportunity for you to try out some equipment and meet other Snowheads.
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+1 for the Bash and the Fridges if the dates can be made to fit.
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FAQ
, so then invested in my first equipment purchase of my own boots.
