Hi, I want to learn ski technique.
Currently, I'm interested in parallel long turns.
I know, I know that there are many videos online, but I can't recognize which of them are good.
I found, for instance, this tutorial:
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@MonicaSkiFan, welcome to Snowheads. Where are you based / where do you ski? Videos can be good, up to a point, depending on your learning style, but to really nail it lessons would probably make sense...
^^ this. I had 2x2hr private lessons. Made a huuuge difference.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
The first guy is too far inside therefore the skis drift apart throughout the turn (distance between skis increases). He would me more likely to fall over if it got icy.
The second guy aligns his body so there are enough forces directed over the outside ski. This is a strong and balanced position.
I find it interesting that the guy in the 2nd vid is using race SL skis and not doing particularly long turns...
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
2nd guy, notice the tracks that his skis leave behind, even through the turn, there are two clear, parallel lines as he carves the skis through the turn instead of letting them slip sideways. I used to refer to this as being "on the rail" until people started calling it carving.
I found the key thing to carving turns is that when the ski is actually carving, its trajectory is relatively fixed untill you swap to the other edge so you need to adjust your balance to suit where the ski is taking you rather than adjusting the side slip / edge grip of the ski to suit your balance.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
under a new name wrote:
I find it interesting that the guy in the 2nd vid is using race SL skis and not doing particularly long turns...
Following comments about ski edge cut radius in my thread about off piste skis, this is why I like skis with a short turn radius, it means being able to carve turns on steeper and narrower slopes and still keep the speed down (ish)
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Peter S wrote:
Second one definitely better.
With a bit of work he will improve his style too.
Are you referring to the video posted by the OP or the Darren Turner one?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
tangowaggon wrote:
when the ski is actually carving, its trajectory is relatively fixed untill you swap to the other edge so you need to adjust your balance to suit where the ski is taking you rather than adjusting the side slip / edge grip of the ski to suit your balance.
Not if you're in good control and able to control the radius of the carve through adapting edge angle and pressure. Unless that's what you meant?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I'm a ski instructor and I think that the 1st video is good. Don't watch too many tutorials Monica. Focus on one good as you found it by yourself and I noticed that the first video is associated with the proper written tutorial: http://ski247.net/techniques/parallel-long-turns
Also you asked for long parallel turns which is presented on the first video. The second person is doing midium radius turns, but is good too.
Where are you from Monica?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'd be a little worried if I was an instructor and liked the first video (I am not an instructor, but have skied quite a lot...often with very good skiers, instructors, ex-WC or EC racers, etc.). I would like to think and submit I have a reasonable eye for a reasonable technique, although I would happily admit that I learned old school and only relatively recently endeavoured to update my own technique.
His short turn video (link thru YT) IMHO is even worse...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
On the 1st video, the guy keeps his skis hip width apart. This is how it should be according to the current trends.
On the 3rd video with the green pants, the guy's skis are too narrow as you can see on the initial picture of the video. That is an old school.
Guy in the first video has poor lateral balance and gets stuck in his inside ski occasionally. That's going to compromise his ability to influence the shape of the turn.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@JohnMorning, I would submit that as the chap in Vid 3 has been on Austria's Interski team and is an instructor trainer you are possibly mis-interpreting angles based on a static photo plus national teaching style differences?
This is how it should be according to the current trends.
the world of skiing isn't limited to just one 'correct' way. Various world ski associations mostly have 'their' way and only their way in their exams as is their prerogative in their association.
As Rob say's :
Quote:
Guy in the first video has poor lateral balance and gets stuck in his inside ski occasionally. That's going to compromise his ability to influence the shape of the turn.
Agree 100% - the guy knows one set position and hangs onto it throughout the 'set curve' of the ski. It's early stage learning...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rob@rar wrote:
Guy in the first video has poor lateral balance and gets stuck in his inside ski occasionally. That's going to compromise his ability to influence the shape of the turn.
My amateurish eye doesn't like the first video.
- His arms seem too narrow, which imo is bad for balance....they also seem too low.
- He seems to be pushing his lower leg away through the turn, causing the gap in the skis to widen
- There also seems to be a bit of A-Frame going on.
- Overall, he just doesn't seem to be in a strong, stacked position, to cope with higher speeds and steep terrain.
After all it is free
After all it is free
under a new name wrote:
@JohnMorning, I would submit that as the chap in Vid 3 has been on Austria's Interski team and is an instructor trainer you are possibly mis-interpreting angles based on a static photo plus national teaching style differences?
Great green pants eh?
Personally, I think that is superb skiing.
As I understand it, there is a big difference between sliding the skis apart laterally (like video 1), and increasing the gap vertically, by shortening the uphill leg, by pulling it up under the hip (as in Long leg/Short leg)...which I think Mr Green Pants is doing.
I also think stance width can vary with turn type. Fast Long turns require a wider stance for balance/stability/hip angle; whereas a narrower stance is better for short turns (and Moguls), as it allows you to be quicker from one set of edges, to the other.
Last edited by After all it is free on Sun 20-08-17 10:33; edited 2 times in total
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Old Fartbag, Austrian Interski team is more or less the definition of superb skiing - ( not to say other Interski teams are not also superb )
Also, as you refer, being comfortable to modify stance width according to conditions, is a key skill.
I am not at all convinced that,
"At the end of a turn use the centrifugal force to raise the posture slightly and lean inside the opposite arc shape your skis are starting to make and switch edges at the same time. Starting the turn lower your posture, lean your knees and hips inside the turn and move your trunk outside of the turn. Continue the turn cutting a clean arc with edges through the snow and then start the opposite turn. Your skis should be hip width apart." ...
...is currently approved advice from anyone.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
under a new name wrote:
@Old Fartbag, Austrian Interski team is more or less the definition of superb skiing - ( not to say other Interski teams are not also superb )
Also, as you refer, being comfortable to modify stance width according to conditions, is a key skill.
I am not at all convinced that,
"At the end of a turn use the centrifugal force to raise the posture slightly and lean inside the opposite arc shape your skis are starting to make and switch edges at the same time. Starting the turn lower your posture, lean your knees and hips inside the turn and move your trunk outside of the turn. Continue the turn cutting a clean arc with edges through the snow and then start the opposite turn. Your skis should be hip width apart." ...
...is currently approved advice from anyone.
I can get a bit "Navel Gazey" when it comes to ski analysis...but...I think I would need an Instructor to fully interpret that sentence.
I'm not sure what, "At the end of a turn use the centrifugal force to raise the posture slightly" really means. You spend the the second half of the turn counteracting CF, which is released with a softening of the legs, with as little upward movement as possible.
I agree that the edges should change at the same time (and at the same angle).
I'm not sure it's helpful to think of starting the turn with knees/hips. IMO. The first action starts from the feet, with the hips gradually dropping inside (and maybe finishing with a little subtle knee drive up hill). Your posture only lowers as a result of angulation and shouldn't be a specific action.
Nothing wrong with thinking of hip width in long turns.
Anyway, I'm happy to be educated on this.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I can only dream of getting the kind of angles Mr Green Pants demonstrates!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
HoneyBunny wrote:
I can only dream of getting the kind of angles Mr Green Pants demonstrates!
I used to have Green Pants (80s Luminous variety)....but they never made me ski like that....Shame!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
In part I think that's a 'time thing', which should come naturally.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
ValueSkiBreaks wrote:
In part I think that's a 'time thing', which should come naturally.
No. It's an instruction and practice thing which probably doesn't come naturally.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Old Fartbag, I still have lime green salopettes, yet I don't achieve those edge angles either. I suspect @under a new name, may have a point
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
mgrolf wrote:
@Old Fartbag, I still have lime green salopettes, yet I don't achieve those edge angles either. I suspect @under a new name, may have a point
Mine were from the excellent, now defunct, Phoenix...bought for peanuts from a discount warehouse (along with the Jacket). I could be seen glowing in a Whiteout, like a lighthouse.
There is something about skiing, that makes you want to do, the opposite of what you should do .....so UAKN knows what he's talking about (on this occasion )
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Old Fartbag, some people are able to watch, understand, transfer to themselves and learn.
Most people can't. (See also, Intermediate Plateau)
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@under a new name, In 45 years, I've never met a good skier who taught themselves....a few of the more talented ones could get by OK, until things got tough.....but maybe I have not met enough self taught skiers.
... every self taught skier I've met has turned to to have had some form of instruction/coaching/training in the past...
Coaching and training are very different from the instruction of novices. Grouping them together is why you get that result. Every one of them probably eats breakfast too
I'd say that "tuition" is a good way to get quickly through the novice stages, but beyond that it's not how everyone learns.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@under a new name, IME. The biggest percentage of holiday skiers take just enough lessons to get down a Red run and then stop. They spend the week "Rallying About", as a friend of mine puts it (and is what he enjoys doing).
The brilliant thing about here, is being amongst like minded people, who really commit to getting better...and do the necessary fitness.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Old Fartbag wrote:
The brilliant thing about here, is being amongst like minded people, who really commit to getting better...and do the necessary fitness.
Or at least like to pretend we do on the internet.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Tubaski wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
The brilliant thing about here, is being amongst like minded people, who really commit to getting better...and do the necessary fitness.
Or at least like to pretend we do on the internet.
A bluffer can usually be spotted at a 1000 paces by the more canny folk on here; but a little bit of exaggeration...
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
If my eyes don't deceive me one of the differences is that the first vid is on an easy Blue run in Bulgaria, the other two are generally on steeper runs with higher speed and more more control. Overall the 2nd and 3rd guys are more dynamic in the turn and more 'stacked' in their positions. The weight is more over the outside ski, hips, shoulders, feet are well aligned more rhythmical, stronger upper body position....
Get the app that video 2 is taken from and it talks through a lot of the positions and feelings, but indeed as others have said you need to augment it with lessons.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
