 Poster: A snowHead
|
My much loved, much abused Movement Scoops are just about at the end of their life and I've started thinking about a replacement.
I have a new set of piste skis, and I also have a (frankly daft) pair of Liberty Genomes (141 under the foot) that I can't bring myself to get rid of, so what I'm looking for is a ski for any day that promises at least some off piste but doesn't warrant the Genomes, and also a general "messing about" ski. I've been super happy with my Scoops in this role, but they are a bit tired.
Due to my gangly build and matchstick like legs, I have a strong preference for light, poppy, skis. Anything that has ever been described as a "charger" I've hated.
So first off, should I stay about the same width? I've been pretty happy with the Scoop's 105mm waist in most regular European powder conditions, but is this a little old school thinking given that I'm not asking this ski to do duty on hardpack when it hasn't snowed for 2 weeks?
And then, if somewhere about 105mm seems about right, then what to go for? Options I've seen and liked the sound of are.
Movement Flycatcher, which are the successors to my Scoops by the look of it, although could go up to the FlySmasher for a bit more width?
Line Sir Francis Bacon - looks like a lovely light playful ski
Faction Prime or CT 3.0. Not really sure what the difference is though?
Anyone skied any of them?
Or... What?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I really like my DPS Wailer 99 s in the Pure build for this. But I would also look at the Scott Superguide 105, the Stereo Skis Wolf / Zenith. The Rossi Soul 7 HD is now a lot stiffer than it was and has a large use range too. The Down pre sale is still on , just - the CD 104 which is 104mm and 187 but quite a big turn radius.
In about 5 minutes you will have the Whitedot recommendations in as well! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Love my Faction CT 3 as an everyday ski, grippy on piste, poppy and wide enough for anything Europe can offer
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Think I've skied the Flycatcher but only indoors. Seemed a fun shape pivoty ski (though not as pure loopy as the Flyswatter) If you're in the 1oh something range than the "mandatory" Whitedot recommendation is the Director- I'd say carbonlite is most fun in that shape.
Demo at one of the Oktobertests - hopefully the brands are now waking up to the fact that British skiers want to buy this size of ski so having them available to test indoors is a pretty good idea.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
I have the Line Sir Francis Bacons from year 14/15. They are my one ski quiver for the piste, messing around in the park, and offpiste. I also prefer a more playful ski. Sure, you wouldn't use them for race training, but they carve well (the limiting factor is my ability). I have the 184 cm length. I'm 180 tall and 83kg.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@flaming, how much do you weigh?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| gorilla wrote: |
| @flaming, how much do you weigh? |
Somewhere between 75 and 80kg depending on proximity to a good supply of Tartiflette.
I am 195cm tall though...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Any other comments / recommendations?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
WD Director is a good call.
I would also look at Black Crows Atris
If you go a bit more mainstream Rossi Soul 7 series are really fun do everything skis
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@flaming, another shout for WD Directors, great double rocker all-rounder OP ski. If budget allows go carbon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@flaming, how do the skis know how tall you are?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
@Dave of the Marmottes, Whats your view on the Ranger 98 trad? I ski the fatter Ranger CL 186cm and am looking for a new OP ski for everyday schlepping....my view is its too narrow but I believe you may be a fan (a certain Nottingham based SH suggested I speak to you on it, now's as good a time as any I guess?).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I found my DPS Wailer 112s Hybrids (in 190cm) as a very good do it all ski. Short radius (18m) meant I could rail them on piste when needed (not as well as a race ski of course), and big front / back rocker made them very versatile in powder, trees, cut-up snow and even breakable crust. Obviously quite a turny ski, definitely not a charger.
The Pure (now Alchemist) version would be snappier. But really expensive.
Starting with this season, I hope that my newly ordered Countdown 114Ls from Down Skis will replace them well (at half the cost or less!). Somewhat longer radius (25m) and less pronounced rocker, but the same overall geometry, plus more carbon so should be snappier (and lighter) - but maybe a bit more charging than the Wailer 112s.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| @flaming, how do the skis know how tall you are? |
The height and weight together are more an indication of my available power to flex the ski. I.e. limited.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Markymark29 wrote: |
| @flaming, another shout for WD Directors, great double rocker all-rounder OP ski. If budget allows go carbon. |
Ok, so they go on the shortlist. How stiff are they?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Was gonna suggest the Atris from the Black Crow range, but noticed it's already been mentioned. Ditto the Directors. The former I have a pair of and love, the latter I tried at an Oktobertest and they felt just like the Atris.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| flaming wrote: |
| Markymark29 wrote: |
| @flaming, another shout for WD Directors, great double rocker all-rounder OP ski. If budget allows go carbon. |
Ok, so they go on the shortlist. How stiff are they? |
Firm underfoot with a forgiving tip'n'tail. Poppy/playful, with the CL being poppier. You'd want the 191cm. Sold out in both constructions until the 17/18 production arrives in Nov but will have demo's at the Otkobertests.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
My train of thought would be.
What’s the widest Ski that’s still ok on piste.
What’s the narrowest ski for a big day.
Will it be nimble when inevitability I find myself amongst rocks/trees/holes or somewhere steep and narrow.
Will it flap before I do.
What colour is it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@flaming, ski length based on height as far as I can determine is a convenient heuristic to allow rapid renting of skis on a Sat morning.
Height&weight do not really indicate strength/capability do they?
I'm 5'6" and 60 kgs but I rather like a ski that is apparently a bit stiff and burly e.g. Bonafide/Mantra, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@under a new name,
weight matters doesn't it? At a give speed and angulation sure the ski will bend more if you are heavier? Of course a ski who skis faster and angulates more will generally enjoy a stiffer ski than a skier of the same weight who is less dynamic. But if you have two skiers who ski in a similar style then won't the heavier one want a stiffer ski?
Or have I got that wrong?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@jedster, no absolutely right - my point is that height is more or less immaterial.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have a choice of skis but am still very happy playing about on my Bents with 120mm underfoot on piste. OK, the carving is a little bit forced but as an all round poppy ski they are pretty good. Tour fine too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Black Crow make some awesome skis though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Markymark29 wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, Whats your view on the Ranger 98 trad? I ski the fatter Ranger CL 186cm and am looking for a new OP ski for everyday schlepping....my view is its too narrow but I believe you may be a fan (a certain Nottingham based SH suggested I speak to you on it, now's as good a time as any I guess?). |
Brill. Probably did 2 or 3 days on them at the EOSB. No deep powder ( or any really) but did everything else very reliably and were just dirty enough to feel you could offend a BASI trainer. Only drawback was they max out in a girl's length. I'd have no worries about a TSQ with a Rag or similar. I did a write up somewhere.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| under a new name wrote: |
@flaming, ski length based on height as far as I can determine is a convenient heuristic to allow rapid renting of skis on a Sat morning.
Height&weight do not really indicate strength/capability do they?
I'm 5'6" and 60 kgs but I rather like a ski that is apparently a bit stiff and burly e.g. Bonafide/Mantra, etc. |
No I agree, and I never mentioned length! My point was more what my relative height and weight say about my build, that I'm tall and skinny with legs like twigs. So any burly metal based ski is going to be too stiff for me. Other people my weight who are shorter (and therefore more stacked) would probably love nice stiff skis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Scarpa, certainly do. My Orbs go through and over everything, only struggles once in waist deep powder one day last season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@Dave of the Marmottes, Best ski review to date!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Another consideration would be the Armada ARV 106
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@Dave of the Marmottes, Thanks, didn't really understand the banter, presumably EOSB stuff - I don't do hard pack out of choice so i'll stick to the wider version, not convinced its the right decision but its an expensive test ride only to find I'd passed up on the wider one that i've been riding for last 5 years + without problems, now destined to be a rock ski......apart from last New Year on hardpack (maybe that's telling me something, perhaps I do need a cross-over but not as my go to all rounder).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
A dedicated pow ski that won't see much action on piste?
I've got to say you can get a lot more fun out of something a bit wider than 105. 105 is a compromise size - OK on piste, but not going to carve like something skinnier, OK in powder, but you can't throw it sideways and drift like something wider.
Also a wider ski floats better which can often mean you hit the bottom less on a shallow day.
If it's going to see a bit of time on piste then hold back from a 140 underfoot RR monster, but you can happily pilot a 115-120mm underfoot ski round on the pistes for a bit if you run short of powder late in the afternoon.
There are loads of good '5 point' designs out there that will give you all the turn / pop that you want without having to resort to DPS. I enjoyed the Atris in the soft and would think that it a great option if you can't bring yourself to go wider.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@BenA, I was thinking a bit along those lines, but I already have the monsters for pow days...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Quote: |
I'd have no worries about a TSQ with a Rag or similar.
|
I have R108CL and Redeemer and I think R98CL and Redeemer (or Rag) would be an even better combination.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@BenA, Agreed, I use my Ragnaroks in deep pow 138mm I think, but its sometimes good to ski more of an all rounder if its a bit cruddy or hasn't dumped a few days, my 108 WD Ranger CL's have been awesome and I'm reluctant to drop below 100 for the same reason you mention. I'm not bothered about weight saving going uphill, i'm fitter than was 1-2 years ago and only go uphill 500/600m max so float is my main thing, I'm about the down not the up. Last season I had a few days that got me to thinking about a narrower hard-pack ski and even hired a pair of Black Crow AM skis but they felt really numb in the powder when it dumped one afternoon and I was too far from home to think about swapping for the Rangers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@jedster, 108 CL and Rag CL is the perfect quiver imo....had a wobble a few days ago and started thinking 98, but now back on 108 thinking, old ones will be relegated to rock skis. Never ridden 98's and some would say how do you know, but never needed a narrower ski (other than boiler plate ice last NY) so am happy with my decision. That said I like the Director CL's too, liking a double-rocker, maybe need a 3 quiver! Used to ski the Redeemer trads in 191, not going back there.... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| flaming wrote: |
| @BenA, I was thinking a bit along those lines, but I already have the monsters for pow days... |
OK - I hadn't picked that up from your original post. I was focusing more on:
| flaming wrote: |
| I'm not asking this ski to do duty on hardpack when it hasn't snowed for 2 weeks? |
In that case then perhaps a more modest approach is the way to go.
Wailer 112rp/ S7 / Atris are the skis that I have skied that would fit with the fun and poppy description. I liked the Atris best of that bunch.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Markymark29, If you've still got your Rags (which are only 118 I believe) then R98 is the right 2 ski quiver choice I think for the harder pack days or longer since a snowfall. They won't be useless in pow by any means - remember they are the same width as the original Seth Pistol and the Mothership which were at the forefront of the fat ski revolution. Yeah there will be some days when the Rag feels just a little too big (and having a wider band will force you to size up on now pow days sometimes) and you'd have been more in your comfort zone on the 108 but I bet they'd be outweighed by sketchier days on which the 98 is better than the 108.
JMO of course. Oktobertest no good for you so spyderjon can leg you over in person?
Last edited by After all it is free  on Fri 22-09-17 13:48; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| @Markymark29, If you've still got your Rags (which are only 118 I believe) then R98 is the right 2 ski quiver choice I think for the harder pack days or longer since a snowfall. They won't be useless in pow by any means - remember they are the same width as the original Seth Pistol and the Mothership which were at the forefront of the fat ski revolution. |
I had a pair of those motherships until some Fitzwilliam nicked them out of my car. What a ski that was. I've been hooked on fat skis for big days ever since. (Hence the 141 Genomes) But now here I am asking about a soft snow biased, but piste capable, ski of about 105mm...
Looked at all the options suggested, but keep coming back to the CT3.0 and the SFB... They look like what I'm looking for, but at an awful lot less money than the redeemers or the Atris, and the DPS are just not justifiable I think...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Dave of the Marmottes, yes 118....typo
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
