 Poster: A snowHead
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A report in today's Times raises plans to link the French resort of Valfrejus with the Italian resort of Bardonecchia, where Winter Olympics events will be hosted this month.
Here is John Carr's report, which is essentially about property-buying opportunities in Valfrejus.
Anyone like to provide any impressions of Valfrejus or Bardonnecchia?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't know about the skiing but my lasting impression of Bardonecchia's roads are not good. The summer only pass from the Valley de Claree is stunnimg but coming down into Bardonecchia there are drops off the side of the road up to 500ft sheer. There are no barriers but at least on the more dangerous sections they have thought to provide protection in the form of 1 inch wide orange platic tape!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
A report in today's Times raises plans to link the French resort of Valfrejus with the Italian resort of Bardonecchia, where Winter Olympics events will be hosted this month.
Here is John Carr's report, which is essentially about property-buying opportunities in Valfrejus.
Anyone like to provide any impressions of Valfrejus or Bardonnecchia? |
This will be fought tooth and nail by ecologists although I think it is just puffery to sell apartments.
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Was this not planned a while back and came to nothing? I am sure I read somewhere that some years ago they even went as far as painting Bardonechia on some of the Gondolas rising out of Val Frejus in anticipation of a linked area? Certainly last year I received an 'alert' about Val Frejus leasebacks that were saying that a link was going to happen, so at the moment, I would agree with davidofs summisation of this being marketing fluff to raise the profile and property prices given the links past failure?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| agavin wrote: |
| Was this not planned a while back and came to nothing? I am sure I read somewhere that some years ago they even went as far as painting Bardonechia on some of the Gondolas rising out of Val Frejus in anticipation of a linked area? Certainly last year I received an 'alert' about Val Frejus leasebacks that were saying that a link was going to happen, so at the moment, I would agree with davidofs summisation of this being marketing fluff to raise the profile and property prices given the links past failure? |
I will look into it some more. Currently the battle is for the Val-Cenis Termignon link which has already been rejected on environmental grounds but the local prefet seems determined to force it through. Anyone buying in the Maurienne should be aware that the number of beds has increased from 75,000 to 130,000 over the last five years and that this season is supposed to be "the worst start for 16 years" according to a local mayor. Lucky they have snow canons, although it has hardly rained in the area since the monster storms in August so who knows where the water is coming from - they are probably using electricty to melt glaciers :-).
The area has good road links, there is the possibility of a TGV line but not before 2020. There is even a small airport close to Valfréjus. However the Maurienne is being seriously overdeveloped in my (and a lot of people's) opinions. The area is held very dear by ecologists who have pretty much abandonned the Tarentaise as "lost".
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davidof, was in Val Cenis last weekend. While the slopes served by snow cannons were 'better', they were still very thin (as opposed to closed in some other cases!) - I suspect they were saving the cannons for the peak season starting now and praying for some snow in the meantime. I thought that the damage at altitude appeared to be largely due to the snow being blown away?
I saw the mention of the link to Termignon. I think by doing that they would have a lift-linked area of 120km? That would make them a similar size to somebody like Saas Fee and would certainly draw more visitors wanting enough for a week. In a sense I hope the development does not go ahead, because it was really quite nice and unspoiled as it was - but then again a few more linked pistes would be nice ... who benefits most from what? 
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| agavin wrote: |
davidof, was in Val Cenis last weekend. While the slopes served by snow cannons were 'better', they were still very thin (as opposed to closed in some other cases!) - I suspect they were saving the cannons for the peak season starting now and praying for some snow in the meantime. I thought that the damage at altitude appeared to be largely due to the snow being blown away?
I saw the mention of the link to Termignon. I think by doing that they would have a lift-linked area of 120km? That would make them a similar size to somebody like Saas Fee and would certainly draw more visitors wanting enough for a week. In a sense I hope the development does not go ahead, because it was really quite nice and unspoiled as it was - but then again a few more linked pistes would be nice ... who benefits most from what? :roll: |
Hi,
Yes the wind has done a lot of damage, but there has not been a great deal of snow at altitude. None in the autumn and then it has really snowed in mid-mountain areas - possibly due to the cold weather? Looking out of my window there is a band of fresh snow from 1400 to 1800 meters like the ring around a bath.
100km is the golden figure, without that, it is claimed, the British Tour Operators won't bless your resort with their custom. So I can see from that viewpoint it is an important figure. The area would be interesting to TOs because of the proximity of Turin airport and the very good road links (better than to the Savoie).
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I for one really hope the link does go ahead as linking Val Cenis and Termignon would be an enormous boost to Termignon economy. I have to declare an interest thou as I've bought in Termignon 
Davidof,
Do you know what the protesters exact objections are to linking the two ? Also I thought it was a done deal as the Val Cenis website says, quote :-
The Val Cenis resort is continuing the reconstruction of the skiable area, having already constructed the following:
• 6 person Solerts chair lift in 2000
• 2 person Plan Cardinal chair lift in 2000
• 6 person Ramasse chair lift in 2003
• 4 person Met chair lift in 2004
The following ski lifts are envisaged :
• 6/8 person lift at the Plan des Champs in 2005
• 4 person lift at the Pré Novel in 2005
• 6 person lift at the Arcelle in 2006
• 4 person lift at the Clot in 2006
The project to increase snow coverage continues alongside this, having already completed 13km of ski slope with 6 to 8km foreseen. The coverage of the Parc de Chenillettes was increased in 2004 in order to improve and facilitate the daily restructuring of the snow.
Furthermore, a project to link the skiable area of Val Cenis to that of Termignon is underway. At its completion, it would create 50km of additional ski slope and between 4 and 10 new chair lifts, also acquiring the existing 6 chair lifts at Termignon.
p.s Val Cenis Webcam
http://www.trinum.com/ibox/valceniswebcam/webcam_panoramique.htm
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Type23 wrote: |
Do you know what the protesters exact objections are to linking the two ?
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Yes it runs through a very sensitive area where several rare species can be found. To put it into a UK perspective it would be like giving the go ahead for a fun park on the only remaining habitat of the Dartford Warbler.
| Type23 wrote: |
Also I thought it was a done deal as the Val Cenis website says
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Not a done deal yet. The UTN was rejected in May, an appeal has been heard and there will no doubt be some legal wrangling even if that is accepted. It may be that the local mayors will just build the ski lifts anyway.
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| davidof wrote: |
Not a done deal yet. The UTN was rejected in May, an appeal has been heard and there will no doubt be some legal wrangling even if that is accepted. It may be that the local mayors will just build the ski lifts anyway.
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Can they do that ?
Well either way the local area is fantastic experience and if the link goes ahead bonus if not then it isn't very far in the car between the two. I'm off to Termignon on the 25th this month and currently hoping there will be better conditions /more snow. Did you ski in Termignon recently ? Talking about links have you heard of another one going from the end of the Valley towards Val D ? or is that just pie in the sky ?
Rgds
Rich
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Type23 wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
Not a done deal yet. The UTN was rejected in May, an appeal has been heard and there will no doubt be some legal wrangling even if that is accepted. It may be that the local mayors will just build the ski lifts anyway.
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Can they do that ? |
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They shouldn't do that but - and this information comes from the local paper but is accurate - the court that deals with any disputes including building of ski lifts in the Northern Alps is the Tribunal Administratif in Grenoble. They have a backlog of 23,000 to 25,000 cases (they are not telling but the journalist found this out).
Say the Mayor of Val Cenis grants himself planning permission to build a lift to Termignon. Assuming someone powerful like the Préfet doesn't object (and he seems keen on the link) then it would be up to some local environmental group like the FRAPNA or Mountain Wilderness to object. With the current backlog the case would take 5 years to get heard by which time the lift is built and probably has probably started to go a bit rusty!
The court says "yes you are right this lift is not in compliance for these reasons and should be taken down" - then what? Well nothing unless the organisation that brought the original complaint, assuming it still exists, gets an enforcement order. Then the mayor appeals and we wait another 5 years and so on.
I suspect Val Cenis will stick to the spirit of the law though, I will let you know what the current situation is if I can find out.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks Davidof,
Do you have any info regarding the other link and Termignon Ski conditions ?
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You know it makes sense.
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Heard earlier on in the year from some locals that the Val C - Termignon link was going ahead, just waiting to fund the project. Not sure if I really agree with this as it may take the edge of the Termignon area with an increase in skiers. Really enjoy the day trips to Termignon - completely empty pistes and usually good powder.
As for ValFrejus - Bardonecchia - Please No !
Type23,
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| Talking about links have you heard of another one going from the end of the Valley towards Val D ? or is that just pie in the sky ? |
Presume this would be Bonneval - Val d'Isere - Don't think that this will ever happen due to the 'national park' areas on that side of the valley - Also presume the distances involved would be a factor - You can only just see the top of ValD from Bonneval on a very clear day.
Yes I would, and do welcome developments in these ski areas, but having found all the various resorts in the Maurienne usually to be very quiet, peaceful, and covered in good snow, I would prefer it that way for a few more years.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I have to admit that skiing Termignon is bliss compared to the "large" resorts due to lack of queues etc but as stated in the article I posted Termignon is in deficit to the tune of something like 300,000 euros a year  Seems a simple case of economics that a loss like that cannot be sustained indefinitely and more tourists spending money on ski passes/ in the shops, taxes etc are desperately needed or Skiing will cease in Termignon and that will be a disaster for the local economy/community.
Rgds
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Poster: A snowHead
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Doesn't Termignon get some strange income from some prime ski land owned elsewhere. I can't remember the details but I thought it funded the lift system. Was it part of Mont Blanc?
You can already ski off piste from Termignon to Val Cenis (it involves some tree skiing and a path).
If you stay in the area it is worth skiing a day in Bonneval, but Bonneval to Val d'Isere would be a hugely long lift with not enough return. Though skiing over the back of Val d'Isere (Fornet) and getting a lift back from Bonneval in a helicopter is good fun.
Val Frejus has some nice skiing, especially lots of off piste and is also worth a day or two while you are in the Haute Maurienne.
Here is a distant view of Termignon which is a very small resort - the end point of this off-piste run. (There is a big bowl to the right of the big rock)
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 17-12-06 23:53; edited 3 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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srobbo, I skiied for the first time in Valfrejus 21 years ago. They were promising a link to Bardonecchia "next year". I wouldn't worry that they will get round to it anytime soon...
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