 Poster: A snowHead
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Has anybody ever heard of a closed resort opening two lifts, never mind one, for a group of ordinary punters?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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He's got some pictures on his website
http://www.lawrencejones.eu/chapter2
http://www.lawrencejones.eu/chapter3
Go to his home page - "about Lawrence" he breaks the story into chapters
Not sure if this adds anything, except maybe underlying the aim of bigging himself up as some sort of motivational business coach 
In the pictures I can't see the backpacks that would have held the shovels used in the impressively fast excavation of the victim
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Has anybody ever heard of a closed resort opening two lifts, never mind one, for a group of ordinary punters?
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No.
As someone else said, on reflection, the whole thing smells of cowd00 to me. No guide is that foolish. The errors in the terminology and description suggest someone who does not have first hand experience and as chamcham says - opening two lifts when the resort is closed for safety reasons? The lifties would get fired. Plus the nonsense about being picked up by heli when the weather is too bad to run the lifts...
I think it is nonsense on stilts.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There are 2 guides in Alpe d'Huez called Stephane, and one in Vaujany, there may be others, Stéphane Laurenceau, Stéphane Marigot and Stephane Garezynski. Maybe if anyone knows any of them, I don't, they should let them know of their possible fame.
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@geeo, @Charliebigpotatoes, I see the anger management courses are working!
This whole thing rings about as true as the storylines involving either farming or horses in The Archers!
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| On the rocks wrote: |
I'm more confused than ever |
Likewise. One shovel between them!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Here you go
https://www.insidermedia.com/publications/north-west-business-insider/north-west-business-insider-december-2010/lawrence-jones
Admission skiing off the back of the mountain with a group of mates, ill equipped (one shovel) and no guide.
The whole story seems to have been embellished to support his business career, at the risk of tainting the reputation of any local guides called Stefan!
"Lawrence Jones, managing director at web hosting business UKFast, is recounting the time in 2001 when he was hammered by an avalanche in the French ski resort of Alpe D'Huez. He and his friends had skied 'off the back' of the mountain on a day when they shouldn't have. It was a risk, but one they felt prepared for, or so they thought."
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 29-03-17 12:04; edited 1 time in total
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Various research sources give different figures for survival after total oxygen deprivation. Overall avalanche survival stats for Canada CH and Austria are meticulously held, but are contaminated by issues of death by trauma, and inability to record the existence of air pockets or not. The research studies emphasise that no air pocket (as reported in this case) leads to very low chance of survival beyond 5-15mins, with the likelihood stacked to the lower end of this range, due to brain death typically starting after 5 mins after o2 deprivation. When doing training I have been given 2 mins to find victims, with that being the time uiagm guides associate with 'no damage' extrication without trauma. Obviously these are worst case figures and based on averages, so the upper tail could stretch some. Seven minutes with airways clogged is right at the upper end? It's an exceptionally trained and very fortunate searcher using transceiver and probe in a large debris field after a sweeping avalanche to find and extricate in seven minutes. I've tried it. The buried 'victim' transceiver has always 'died'. Stars aligned? Misremembered details?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sorry more - I've just noticed the statement 'upside down under 8 feet of snow'. I think the writer may be guilty of a little embelliment here. I have dug compacted post slide material many times. Unless anyone has other experience I have found digging even a metre through compacted snow with a portable shovel (and it has to be alloy not plastic) a very slow process. 2.5 metres in seven minutes, including location time using one transceiver? Hmmmm.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 29-03-17 11:58; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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"There are 2 guides in Alpe d'Huez called Stephane, and one in Vaujany, there may be others, Stéphane Laurenceau, Stéphane Marigot and Stephane Garezynski. Maybe if anyone knows any of them, I don't, they should let them know of their possible fame."
Actually I think Stephane Garezynski is also known as Stefan. 
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@valais2, It's fiction, and not very believable fiction either! He probably saw it on Casualty or similar!
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You know it makes sense.
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It would appear that the "event" occurred back in Jan 2001 so difficult to verify. Elements do seem a little far fetched and the language for someone who is a snowsports regular and owns a hotel in Switzerland is poor!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Reading between the lines (see my edited post above) . He was with a group of in-experienced and ill-equipped (I'm guessing no transceivers) mates and no guide. When he was caught he was buried upside down with his head 8 foot (give or take 3 foot) underground with his board or something else visible to his friends so they could find him and dig him out.
In itself this would be a humbling and not exceptional incident. The need to embellish and involve a fictitious guide purely to support his business website is pathetic beyond belief
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Poster: A snowHead
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@On the rocks, aargh this is where details really matter, if a true post mortem is to yield any insights for future practice. Obviously the main learning pounts around the story relate to pre-activity planning (most avalanche deaths occur because of decisions made around the breakfast table) and groupthink. But let's look at the recovery. 2.5 metres and upside down, with board on one foot (although account says he was carrying) could leave some equipment equipment visible - i.e. Height of victim 2 metres, half of board 80cms - and thus would make a hell of a difference. There are accounts of a person buried quite deeply but with arm extended, ski pole attached to wrist, with 20cms or so visible above the surface - location and retrieval has been very prompt in these circumstances. The details matter and the detail in this story is a bit all over the place.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Do you not think we're all readying a bit too much into this? He's writing an "origin" story about why people are so important to him and therefore why he treats them so well at his company. Sure, it's full of bravado and gaper dangly bits but does that really matter?
It's all fun and games slagging the fella off but his company (i thought his name rang a bell when i started reading it) has just won 1st in Manchester and 5th nationally for best companies to work for so he can't be a total douchebag.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@galpinos, I think that's right; he didn't post it on Snowheads someone else did and you are right to draw attention to purpose.
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| galpinos wrote: |
Do you not think we're all readying a bit too much into this? He's writing an "origin" story about why people are so important to him and therefore why he treats them so well at his company. Sure, it's full of bravado and gaper dangly bits but does that really matter?
It's all fun and games slagging the fella off but his company (i thought his name rang a bell when i started reading it) has just won 1st in Manchester and 5th nationally for best companies to work for so he can't be a total douchebag. |
Having read the blog, I'd not be keen on working with him - too much bravado and naivety involved. Though I can understand how the story might appeal to a non-skier.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| admin wrote: |
| ......feet are likely to pierce the upper layers of snow potentially destabilising the snowpack (identified as a key factor in the Tignes avalanche earlier this season). The more steps you take, the worse the risk becomes. |
I think it's worth expanding on this for those who don't understand the mechanism of what you're are saying here. I think you are trying to say that on foot, the chance of disturbing weak layers buried in the snowpack is higher?
| admin wrote: |
| In the scenario described in the story, the boarder would have been wise to simply take a lower traverse in order to exit the risk zone as quickly as possible, without adding extra stress to the snowpack. It's fair to say that what he did was far from the best approach. |
As much as I was enjoying your heated discussion with geeo, I have been in situations where just taking a lower traverse was not necessarily an option and can think of multiple others so I think you're giving geeo too much of a hard time. This is an embellished "how I saw the light" blog post, not "fact" so I think it's safe to say what's on paper and what actually happened may not recognise each other should they pass in the street. The few photos that on there show them without rucksacks and the inconsistencies in his re-telling of the tale point to a story, not an account of what happened.
As a skier, I would imagine I would try to hold a high a line a possible then side step up at an appropriate moment to make up the height, i'm not sure what the equivalent on a board is?
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| jellylegs wrote: |
| Having read the blog, I'd not be keen on working with him - too much bravado and naivety involved. Though I can understand how the story might appeal to a non-skier. |
It was 16 years ago? I would imagine many of us have made naive and bravado induced decisions in our youth that we hope we would not still be judged on. Experience is built on the mistakes you make and survive.
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No
The blog is deceitful
It seems he and his mates (like many other groups) made a bad decision to ski off piste given the conditions, equipment and experience. He had a lucky escape, largely due to luck and the hard work of his mates. A more honest commentary would have been to recognise the mistake and learn from it.
What is inexcusable is apparently transferring the responsibility for this bad decision from himself to a fictitious guide rather than risk damaging his reputation for responsible decision making, in the process possibly damaging the reputation of a real guide.
No I wasn't there but with the holes in the blog story and inconsistency with his account inked in my post above I find it difficult to draw another conclusion. However I would welcome enlightenment if there is a better explanation.
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@On the rocks, I agree with you especially with respect to the / a guides reputation. A quick google with stefan or stephane / guide / alpe d'huez brings up those names above. For an internet savvy guy to not check out his "story" is not going to cause problems seems an odd way to behave. If he already knew the guide it's even more of a strange thing to do. if I was one of those Stefans / Stephanes and this guy had been a client at some time I would not be impressed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@skitow, @On the rocks, @galpinos, IT IS QUITE CLEARLY FICTION! This is NOT a true story. This incident never happened. It has been made up.....
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8ft under - dug out in 8 minutes with one shovel - it must have been a JCB; Embellished BS at best!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm impressed that his beanie didn't come off, and everyone's clothes are still model fresh after such a deep dig.....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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bit of a tw@t isn't he ?
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| bit of a tw@t isn't he ? |
Well doesn't appear MBE vetting weights sH opinion highly. Though he might have awarded himself that too.
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You know it makes sense.
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Perhaps if you have been starved of oxygen for 8 minutes you can forget bits and embellish things a bit.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Well doesn't appear MBE vetting weights sH opinion highly. |
First Brexit, now this!!!! The world is going to hell in a handcart.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@DrLawn, grief I must stop looking at this thread....but I was surprised at the photo of the two guys holding his head whilst he lay on the ground. I was surprised that there was a photo at all ... when trying to recover and revive a person from this kind of situation the last thing which goes through my mind is 'I need to get a nice photo of this' - I have been in quite a few scrapes on the hill and getting a photo for posterity is about the last thing on my list when people's wellbeing is at stake. So that IS a bit weird. Secondly, the left hand guy with the goggles does look for all the world as if he is smiling at the camera. Is both taking the photo and the apparent smile a result of 'extreme relief at finding LJ?'. If you google 'avalanche vicitim picture' you find ... no equivalent photos at all, unless I am missing something. Looking at photos of extreme situations, like Larry Burrows' Yankee Papa 13, you don't tend to find anyone smiling at any cameras, just tension, action and stress, and that's my experience too.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@valais2, haha, if you just saw the photos, you'd think it was a total set up. The first one, there's a bit of spindrift but you can see for about 20 miles to the peaks in the background and the sky is blue.. None of them are wearing backpacks, and the rescue photo, lol, it's like "look what we just found dudes!!". Lifts were probably closed due to high winds and would've opened that day anyway. Guys got a bit out of their depth and he had a bad fall. Conditions were so bad they were dicking around shoving each other over...
And it was 2001.
Anyway, fair play to the guy, I couldn't be bothered to read it all but I can imagine it scared the beejesus out of him, but I can also see why it's pissed off a few 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Bodeswell,
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I can imagine it scared the beejesus out of him
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Why? It never happened. It is not real. It is a story. It is about as likely as Sylvester Stallone living in the Vietnamese jungle and coming across Martin Sheen killing Marlon Brando! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hmmm, I can imagine LJ adding March of the Valkyries as a soundtrack to his embellished account
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@On the rocks, Do you think he surfs?
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Are we hitting google front page yet for "Lawrence Jones Avalanche" - just wondering when this thread hits his radar and he has an opportunity to defend his BS?
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I understand somebody has sent him a FB message with a link to this thread.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We should be careful what we say here, Lawrence Jones is clearly a man who holds honesty and integrity in high regard. This is how he started his blog of 19 March:
"I grew up believing journalists have a responsibility to tell the truth and paint a clear and accurate picture of what is happening in the world. Lately, however, headlines are becoming more about grabbing people’s attention and selling as many papers as possible, often with no relation whatsoever to the story they are driving you towards."
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Are we hitting google front page yet for "Lawrence Jones Avalanche" - just wondering when this thread hits his radar and he has an opportunity to defend his BS? |
Or explain why it's not BS. I must admit that I think people have been a touch unfair on him without giving him the right to reply, especially as it's easy to contact the chap to ask for his comment.
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FAQ
but the detail is very inconsistent imho.
