 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The instructions with the binding are correct.
From the 16/17 Tech Manual
"PIC.6
Lock the boot in the binding.
The setting is correct if:
PIC.6.A
The backward pressure indicator is completely
inside the housing.
PIC.6.B
The backward pressure does not stand out of the track"
You need to shorten the binding to a length that, with the boot installed, the end of the indicator stud is slightly recessed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks very much for that.
Will sort them today and avoid a certain branch of a well known ski shop!
Think I also need to learn to trust the instructions supplied!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hi Jon
Dont suppose you could post PIC.6.A and 6.B as the pictures in the "user manual" do not correspond exactly to what is in front of me. On my brand new binding the backward pressure indicator is housed in two different coloured plastics, the mid grey rotating lock part for adjusting the heel position and a 4mm wide very dark grey/black U shaped part that is open upwards. Just as shown in mattg4321's photos. This U shape part is not shown in the user manual illustrations.
When the binding is adjusted as instructed for boot length and the boot is locked in the binding the backward pressure indicator is recessed inside the U shape but because this is open upwards it is still clearly visible - it is about 2mm inside the black U shape but about 2mm outside the mid gray plastic. To my (perhaps pedantic) mind it is not clear that this is "completely inside the housing".
If the binding is set any smaller the boot will not enter the binding at all so there appears to be no possibility of getting the pressure indicator actually inside the mid grey part of the housing.
Many thanks as always
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@stiffdrink, I can't copy the pics from the pdf manual but if you PM me your email address I'll send you the complete manual.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Following up on this, the OP shows a manual that's older than the binding he's working on. Anyone have a confident answer about where the forward pressure indicator "pin" should be set?
I recently purchased skis with Look SPX 12 Dual WTR bindings that match the original poster's NX 12's design. When I set them within the boot range perfectly (boot size 305, toe @ 308, heel @ 304), the pin is flush with the black "U" directly behind the 'adjustment lever'.
The next adjustment smaller, brings the pin slightly inside the "U".
The next adjustment even smaller, too tight. Boot won't lock in.
Seems to me the original poster's 3rd picture with the pin flush to the "U" is correct, seeing as how I can only go one possible adjustment "tighter"...
Anyone able to confirm?
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@JimbotheBull, on your binding set the toe to give the fore/aft position of the boot where you want it on the ski, usually boot line over mounting line. Ignore the heel length scale as half of the time it's not accurate. Position the heel so that the end of the pin is inside the U when the boot is installed.
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@spyderjon, Look/Rossi bindings do like a bit of forward pressure eh  Never feels right stepping into them, but they work really well
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm still a bit unclear on this too. The first image I posted in the OP seems to suggest that the pin needs to go right inside the housing.
However page 17 here http://techtraining.rossignol.com/manual/LOOK%20BINDING%20TECH%20MANUAL%202017-18.pdf seems to show the pin being ok anywhere just inside the housing BUT ALSO ok within the u shaped piece outside the housing.
The image I posted in the OP shows the pin being within the u shaped piece as NOT ok. The image I posted was the information that came with the skis/bindings from new.
Why don't they make it crystal clear!!!
Jimbo you said that my OP image was from an old manual? But that was what came with the skis. However I agree with you that from previous experience with other bindings, to get the pin right inside the housing seems a bit too tight. Within the u shaped section 'feels' correct. However the info that came with the bindings says otherwise
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Personally, I think flush with the black "U" is the right spot, if accurate (which my bindings are 2018, brand new).
Intentionally too loose puts the pin close to the spot without a boot in. And as I've mentioned, there is only one more adjustment tighter before the boot no longer will physically fit into the binding.
I'm still awaiting a definitive answer, but I'm going to set it flush with the black plastic "U" and pray these bindings don't pop early.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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MattG -
Reading through the tech manual, it looks like my 305mm boots should be set toe 300, heel 304. Forward pressure pin should be flush or recessed with the black "U".
Not terribly intuitive, but I'm satisfied with this as an answer. @KenX is right about the heavy pressure Look wants.
I'm going to go with the slightly recessed, heavy pressure, and lower the din from 8 to 7.
Thanks all, Jimbo
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You know it makes sense.
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| JimbotheBull wrote: |
MattG -
Reading through the tech manual, it looks like my 305mm boots should be set toe 300, heel 304. Forward pressure pin should be flush or recessed with the black "U".
Not terribly intuitive, but I'm satisfied with this as an answer. @KenX is right about the heavy pressure Look wants.
I'm going to go with the slightly recessed, heavy pressure, and lower the din from 8 to 7.
Thanks all, Jimbo |
That's totally the WRONG thing to do. You can set your toe position anywhere you want on the rail. The sole length markings are just a guide to give an approximate position for were your mid sole line on the boot will align with the mounting line on the ski. You can decide whether you want to be in front of the line, on it or a bit behind it - which will vary how the ski performs. Once you've put the toe were you want the boot to be positioning on the ski you then adjust the heel position until the forward pressure is correct. And upping the forward pressure and lowering the din does not balance out the release forces equation as there are other factors at play. And saying the all Looks need heavy forward pressure is not correct as the heel binding vertical pivot mechanism is quite different between the different models as is the spring rating of the forward pressure spring in the underside of the heel base.
I've torque tested a lot of these bindings (both the SPX and NX) and they're accurate with the stud within the U. Slightly recessing an SPX gives too much forward pressure IMO. I've stated many times on this forum never take at face value what a ski industry manufacturer tells you (particularly a French one).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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My 364mm boots should be set to toe 364 heel 360 according to the manual. This places the forward pressure pin just inside the 'u' when the boot is inserted (but not completely recessed inside)
Think I'm going to go with that.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| JimbotheBull wrote: |
MattG -
Reading through the tech manual, it looks like my 305mm boots should be set toe 300, heel 304. Forward pressure pin should be flush or recessed with the black "U".
Not terribly intuitive, but I'm satisfied with this as an answer. @KenX is right about the heavy pressure Look wants.
I'm going to go with the slightly recessed, heavy pressure, and lower the din from 8 to 7.
Thanks all, Jimbo |
That's totally the WRONG thing to do. You can set your toe position anywhere you want on the rail. The sole length markings are just a guide to give an approximate position for were your mid sole line on the boot will align with the mounting line on the ski. You can decide whether you want to be in front of the line, on it or a bit behind it - which will vary how the ski performs. Once you've put the toe were you want the boot to be positioning on the ski you then adjust the heel position until the forward pressure is correct. And upping the forward pressure and lowering the din does not balance out the release forces equation as there are other factors at play. And saying the all Looks need heavy forward pressure is not correct as the heel binding vertical pivot mechanism is quite different between the different models as is the spring rating of the forward pressure spring in the underside of the heel base.
I've torque tested a lot of these bindings (both the SPX and NX) and they're accurate with the stud within the U. Slightly recessing an SPX gives too much forward pressure IMO. I've stated many times on this forum never take at face value what a ski industry manufacturer tells you (particularly a French one). |
Thanks Jon. It seems and feels right to me that the stud should be within the 'u'.
It seems like Rossi made a mistake with the manual sent out with the skis/bindings last year that has now been rectified with this years manual?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@spyderjon, my bad, was assuming all Look/Rossis were the same regarding forward pressure, I've got 2 pairs of the Axial 2 & 3 and the boot feels wedged into the binding compared to say a Salomon in order to achieve the correct reading.......
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The Axial 2 & 3 are essentially the same design with the release spring in the lever whereas the NX has it's release spring in the heel housing.
If you want to feel a binding with a lot of forward pressure try clicking in to a Jester/Griffon/Duke/Baron.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| JimbotheBull wrote: |
MattG -
Reading through the tech manual, it looks like my 305mm boots should be set toe 300, heel 304. Forward pressure pin should be flush or recessed with the black "U".
Not terribly intuitive, but I'm satisfied with this as an answer. @KenX is right about the heavy pressure Look wants.
I'm going to go with the slightly recessed, heavy pressure, and lower the din from 8 to 7.
Thanks all, Jimbo |
That's totally the WRONG thing to do. You can set your toe position anywhere you want on the rail. The sole length markings are just a guide to give an approximate position for were your mid sole line on the boot will align with the mounting line on the ski. You can decide whether you want to be in front of the line, on it or a bit behind it - which will vary how the ski performs. Once you've put the toe were you want the boot to be positioning on the ski you then adjust the heel position until the forward pressure is correct. And upping the forward pressure and lowering the din does not balance out the release forces equation as there are other factors at play. And saying the all Looks need heavy forward pressure is not correct as the heel binding vertical pivot mechanism is quite different between the different models as is the spring rating of the forward pressure spring in the underside of the heel base.
I've torque tested a lot of these bindings (both the SPX and NX) and they're accurate with the stud within the U. Slightly recessing an SPX gives too much forward pressure IMO. I've stated many times on this forum never take at face value what a ski industry manufacturer tells you (particularly a French one). |
@SpyderJon -
Based on what you're saying now, the forward pressure pin should be fairly flush with the black plastic "U" housing that MattG and I have both posted multiple times. (See his third picture in the OP, first picture in my earlier post). When I set the binding to make that "flush" pin, it feels right, but the tech manual says to go another notch tighter on the heel.
As I've mentioned, I can get the pin recessed to about halfway into the "U" and still click the boot in, but literally cannot adjust another rail notch tighter after that because the boot won't fit. Are you telling me the perfect forward pressure on this model binding is the tightest setting before the boot won't fit?
This has nothing to do with the toe piece, it's already aligned to center the boot over the ski. Only discussing forward pressure setting. Thanks guys.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| JimbotheBull wrote: |
| .....As I've mentioned, I can get the pin recessed to about halfway into the "U" and still click the boot in, but literally cannot adjust another rail notch tighter after that because the boot won't fit. Are you telling me the perfect forward pressure on this model binding is the tightest setting before the boot won't fit? |
I'm telling you that the binding tests accurately with the end of the stud within the U, including flush with the end of the U.
That may or may not be the shortest setting before the boot won't fit in as that would depend upon the specific sole length of the boot compared to the vague boot sole length 'range' printed on the toe & heel tracks. Some boot lengths might go one more click some may not, depending on were they are withing the indicated range.
I reckon that on at least half of the boots I set-up on this type of rail system end up with a mis-match between the actual sole length of the boot versus the length stated on the rail when the foreward pressure is correctly set.
Any rail system that has boot sole lengths printed on the heel scale is a poor design as it's very misleading. Far better to have either A,B,C lines or 1,2,3 lines etc as a reference as that forces the user to use the forward pressure indicator correctly instread of just blindly using the sole length scale.
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FAQ
