 Poster: A snowHead
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Just back from a great trip but a warning to all diesel car drivers...we spent a week in la Tania and then on to Campitello Di Fassa in the Dolomites after a week there on to Zell am Zee....my warning... I filled up the car in Verona and went on to the mountains...the car was left fo a week in -10 conditions...and...it wouldnt start!! dismay and a flattened battery.. my host told me ...frozen diesel ..Verona doesnt put in the additive..anyway eventually I got it started by hand pumping the fuel through (a lot of diesels have a little pump, usually a rubber bulb, in the fuel line)...I went and bought the additive at the next service station €13...
My advice ..check at the last fill up before the mountains and buty some here before you go...STP sell it ...https://www.bullseyecarparts.co.uk/category/detail/car-maintenance/additives/diesel-additives/stp-diesel-winter-treatment-with-anti-gel
I dont know how good it it is but better safe than sorry ...My host said €150 for the local garage to do it...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I assume -10 conditions means parked outside?
Left our Land Rover (late 80s Defender - petrol!) in about -25C in Mongolia, on someone's drive. Had to get an extension lead and electric heater out and leave it under the engine for half a day before we could get it started again.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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In Russia I've seen truck drivers lighting fires under their engines......
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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In Russia I've seen truck drivers lighting fires under their engines......
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And in dyas gone by this was a common sight in the UK as well
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Might be ok with cunifer piping, rather terminal with rubber though!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Diesel fuel around here in Munich is usually good for -20C. We certainly had temps close to that a few weeks ago and never had any problems. Never had to put any additives in, and I'm fairly sure I read in the handbook that they advise not to use them.
Good to know that in Verona they don't sell low temp Diesel. Will keep that in mind.
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I was told when hiring a car in Venice to top up the tank once I got into the mountains as the Diesel sold in the lowlands doesn't have sufficient anti-waxing additive to cope with overnight temps in the mountains.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 2-02-17 23:01; edited 1 time in total
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There is also a chance to cold tmps, your handbrake, can freeze / malfunction
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thats why growing up in Scotland, we always left the car in gear without the handbrake being applied
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@DaveD, were flying into Milan in a couple of weeks, thanks for the good advice, did you see any additives for sale in Italy, or do we need to take it from the UK?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It might not have been diesel waxing and given the fuel pump works at over 3 bar, your little hand pump won't have had anything to do with it. Have a look at some of the other threads on here about difficulties of diesels starting in cold and altitude.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The other problem I've had in a Diesel Grand Cherokee (5-cyl Mercedes turbodiesel engine) in the mountains is parking facing uphill with a part-empty tank. I Parked on a steep incline and couldn't restart it. Fortunately, there was space to roll it back and get on a level plane, and then it was OK. Garage said it was a common issue: The fuel drains back from the engine and if you're say, on an 80% empty tank, this combines with vacuum and the fuel pump can't get a high enough pressure to prime the engine. It would have been useful to know this in advance, but nothing in the manual. This doesn't happen with a gentle uphill incline - it has to be quite steep.
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@DaveD, the same thing happened to me a few years ago. I foolishly assumed the very north of Italy would provide winter diesel, so I topped up then went skiing in Garmisch-P. After a very cold night, the car started but kept losing power intermittently. By stop and go, I limped to a German service centre (might have been BMW). The pricks kept me behind glass for over three hours while "checking out" the car. In this time, the diesel warmed up inside the shop, then they poured in some additive. My bill included three hours shop time, Euro 25 for the additive, and Euro 25 to register my car with the shop. All told, about Euro 200. Ok, my stupid assumption but as a warning to echo DaveD's - don't trust the Italians to serve up winter diesel and do trust the Germans to exploit you if they can. Last point - take responsibility for your own stuff. I.e. make sure about the fuel, and learn how your vehicle works so you can sensibly fix the issue as DaveD did. (By the way, in very cold weather diesel is prone to forming wax flakes or crystals which can clot together and clog up fuel lines and the filter and reduce fuel flow to the engine. The winter additive prevents them from clotting. On another note, the very cold weather idea of lighting a fire under the block is very dangerous and can result in you burning your car up. The reason you do it is to warm the oil in the oil pan and in the block since it acts like a gel at very low temps and can seize your motor somewhat. IF you do it, keep the flame very low and warm your vehicle slowly. Keep in mind there is always spilled fuel and oil on the outside and bottom of your block that can ignite in open flame!)
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You know it makes sense.
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@geoffknight I saw diesel additive at the Italian fuel stations, just didn't have the sense to buy some as a precaution. By the way, there is a caution against putting in your own additive if the fuel is already winterized, so check first when you are getting your final fill before hitting the cold weather.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Also beware the problem of HAVING winter diesel, but finding that your glow plugs are knackered.
For the uninitiated, French for these indispensable items in your large diesel engine: bougis prechauffages
Thankfully, I have not had to learn the Italian for German for the aforesaid ..... yet!
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Poster: A snowHead
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When picking a rental car up from the airport is there any way you can tell if there is winter diesel or do you have to presume it's not?
If you are running on summer fuel and drive to resort and say use quarter of a tank. Will adding that amount of winter fuel be enough or should you use some additive as well?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As long as you fill up in the alps the diesel shouldn't wax. summer diesel has a cfpp (the point at which fuel filters clog) of around -7. winter diesel of as much as -27.
Most indoor car parks don't go down to those temos even when colder outside. If diesel does wax the remix temperature is much high though.
As i said before, the large bulk of diesel starting problems at altitude and cold have nothing to do with diesel waxing, although many people think they are. They are due to a combination of a very cold block bleeding temperature away, lower effective compression ratio due to the altitude, poor battery performance due to the cold, high engine frictional restance due to high viscosity cold oil, ineffective glow plugs.
I have had some diesel cars that are a bug to start after a week at altitude in temperatures down to only -3 or -4.
The worst has been a renault megane scenic where the starting in push button and the automatic glow plug and starting.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@emwmarine, good stuff there!
I'm definitely going to top the tank back up with winter diesel in the mountains on the evening I arrive...I imagine most hire cars at Milan will have been filled with standard diesel.
Would it help avoid problems to start the engine every day even if the vehicle isn't in use?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We picked up a car at Verona last Jan and they told us to buy additive if we were heading to mountains. Picked car up in Venice this year, was carrying skis, no-one said anything. Was -12 in Selva, car started fine.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Quote:
In Russia I've seen truck drivers lighting fires under their engines......
And in dyas gone by this was a common sight in the UK as well
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This is where the word Chauffeur comes from
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