 Poster: A snowHead
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So picked up on this today. New French Environmental Zones.
[EDIT - ORIGINAL LINK NOW DELETED AS IT WOULD APPEAR TO BE AN UNOFFICIAL SITE CHARGING SUBSTANTIALLY MORE THAN THE OFFICIAL FRENCH GOVERMENT SITE]
OFFICIAL Citr'Air link is https://www.certificat-air.gouv.fr/ - edited by Hells Bells.
A Vignette will be needed, including (from 1 April) foreign vehicles, to drive in certain environmental zones (Paris, Lyon, Grenoble). The vignette is clasified according to your vehicle emissions 1-5 and on high pollution days higher classified cars (ie. higher emission) can be banned from driving or can be switched into alternate day access.
The main routes from Calais to the Savoie and Haute Savoie, Northern French alp resorts look to be unaffected if you take the A46/A432 motorway around Lyon. However, in Grenoble the motorway is inside the environmental zone and looks to be included, so could affect any journey through Grenbole. ie. Isere, Haute Alpes and Southern alps resorts. Imagine having driven to the tunnel/ferry, spent 7 hours driving South, just an hour or two from resort, only to find the zone is active and you are blocked from passing through Grenoble !
Summer holidays also affected if you are in/near Paris. The Paris zone I’m confused by, on one page of the website it shows the border being the Peripherique, yet on another it talks about vehicles being banned inside the A86 motorway. Strasbourg would also appear to be in the process of implementing.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 26-01-17 16:50; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Gazzza, Thanks for that. From your link it seems anyone needing a Crit'Air vignette will have to stump up €29.65.....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@boredsurfin, In the case of Lyon that appears correct, but not Grenbole where the motorway through would appear to be included.
From: [EDIT ORIGINAL LINK HERE DELETED AS IT WOULD APPEAR TO BE AN UNOFFICIAL SITE MASQUEARING AND CHARGING SUBSTANTIALLY MORE THAN THE FRENCH GOVERNMENT SITE]
| Quote: |
The vignette Crit’Air will be also mandatory on the highway around Grenoble
According to an announcement from the city of Grenoble, the vignette Crit’Air will also be mandatory on the highways crossing the conurbation Grenoble-Metropole. The obligation of having the vignette Crit’Air begins northerly from the toll station of Voreppe on the A48, southward from the toll station of Le Crozet/Vif on the A51 and westerly from the toll station of Crolles on the A41. The A480, which crosses the city of Grenoble, is also concerned. |
and:
| Quote: |
The road leading to the popular ski resorts of the départements Isère and Hautes-Alpes crosses the conurbation of Grenoble. The ski resorts Alpe d’Huez, Alpe du Grand Serre, Chamrousse, les 2 Alpes and many others are in those départements. The pollution peaks are especially more frequent during winter, because of higher pollution risks due to cold temperatures and massive wood heating.
The highways A41, A48, A480 and A51 carry a heavy load of traffic also during summer time, since those lead from the north and the west to the Côte d’Azur and can be an interesting alternative to the A7 to Marseille and the Provence. Drivers will only be able, in the future, to drive across Grenoble, gate to the Alps, if they have a Crit’Air on their vehicle. |
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 26-01-17 16:51; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Gazzza, hmm, thats going to be a bit of bother then ...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's a shame the EU countries don't have a common scheme. I have a sticker for Germany so soon I'll be getting a collection so that I can't see through the windscreen 
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Grenoble banned certain vehicles for a while recently. Certainly one type was diesels more than 10 years old. And yes that included thé main route past towards the Oisans resorts Serre Chevalier etc or from the airport.
Didnt last long and isnt in place now as far as I know. Pollution is awful in that area.
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Looks like I'd better get one quick 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yes its hard to tell at this stage how much of an issue its likely going to be, how often the zone is active and therefore the risk of an interrupted journey. Looks like the Grenoble Zone was "active" due to high pollution on 24 Jan.
As it goes, all my driving trips so far have been to Taranteise resorts which wouldn't require the vignette anyway provided you give Lyon the wide berth.
I have eurotunnel booked on 8 Apr for a week but undecided on resort as was thinking of prying myself away from Courchevel and trying somewhere new for a change. Guess if I do I'll pick somewhere Northern alps to avoid Grenoble.
Suppose it'll be a future consideration for rental cars too - will cars rented from regional airports (and particularly Swiss side GVA) have a French environmantal zone vignette !?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'll pop into the tourist office here and ask them about it. I haven't driven down since before the New Year. Anti pollution speed limits are almost permanently in place in Grenoble.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yep, it reads that 20km reductions are automatically put in place if the pollution has been high for consecutive days.
What is interesting, is that as the zone becomes active for consecutive days then (i the case of Grenoble at least) the city public transports becomes reduced and is eventually free after the 7th day. Helpful for locals/residents.
However it seems ill thought out for tourists who will have booked their ferry/tunel/accommodation up to year in advance and could then be denied access to pass through to their resort - and they won't know if the zone is going to be active on their travel day until the 15:00 the day before. These people will be forced into either: a. ignoring the ban and risking a fine. or b. trying to circumnavigate the zone thus adding significant mileage and time, clogging up rural roads, and thus actually increasing their pollution contribution to their journey, which contradicts what is trying to be achieved.
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Hells Bells is on the case and has told me à bit on FB. Sure she'll update here.
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You know it makes sense.
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Having said this, if I read it correctly, you'll need a vignette if there's been 5 or more days of pollution in Grenoble, and category 4 and 5 cars will be banned with 7 or more days. According to the table on the same website, Euro 4 compliant diesels and above, and Euro 2 compliant and above petrols looks like they get the category 3 or better (ie. cat 1 or 2) vignettes so wouldn't actually banned. That probably covers most cars driving from the UK to ski resorts.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Thu 26-01-17 13:50; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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how do you know/find out what Euro # your car is?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Interesting that the zones include the autoroutes. The German ones generally (always?) permit through travel on the autobahns and core major through roads.
Interesting prices too. Was going to say that that French sticker was way more expensive than the cost of a German sticker to foreigners, but the site linked above links to an even more expensive German price! €7 to us resident in Germany, €30+ on that site above or €15 direct from Dekra (incl. postage). Worth shopping around for both the French and the German ones.
It's all just a way of making a bit of money anyway. The German version is just to have a visual sticker in the window that the car meets one of the EURO emissions regulations, and to bill the car owner a fee. Guessing that 1-6 for the French ones tie up with EURO1-EURO6? (would be logical). Far too logical to identify that emissions standard on the sticker on the registration plate or tax disc or something.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Try https://certificat-air.gouv.fr. That's where I got ours. Was a bit worried as we have a VW diesel (maybe 4 years old), but it came out as a level 2.
We had a bit of a look around Grenoble in the last month, and there are very few cars displaying vignettes, and even fewer gendarmes looking for them! It (empirically) seems quieter in town during peak pollution periods, this might be because the public transport is free.
For the future I am more worried about our wood burning stove, as we are now also part of le metropole and expecting regulation/tax increases in the next few years...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Oh, and speed reductions on the Grenoble-Lyon motorway are pretty much omnipresent nowadays. Not that anyone will be doing more than 5 km/h when the French school holidays start!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| andy wrote: |
| Interesting that the zones include the autoroutes. |
The Lyon one doesn't seem too, the Grenoble one does.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks @JamesHJ, seems I'm class 1!, I guess that means I'll be amongst the last to be restricted from driving on high pollution days.. just need to figure out how to buy one of them now!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Be interesting to see if this affects the hire cars from Grenoble airport.
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or indeed planes into Grenoble airport
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sounds like a complex pain in the A*s to me. So basically they are "forcing" everyone to have new cars...maybe a tactic to increase new car sales?? I'm all for saving the environment but actually stopping cars from travelling on a motorway is just stupid - especially if you have no idea about the scheme! French huh! Is the pollution around Grenoble really that bad?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| BMG wrote: |
| Is the pollution around Grenoble really that bad? |
I think it can be as it's a fairly large city lying in a valley which sometimes experiences a temperature inversion layer phenomenon where the pollution gets trapped at low level.
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It's awful much of the time tbh 😞
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The website link in Gazza's original post looks to be a bit of a scam site - that link is charging €29.65 for the vignette, whereas the official French government website is only charging €3.70 plus postage (thanks Hells Bells for that info).  https://certificat-air.gouv.fr/
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ditto for the German one. Try dekra.de if you need a German Feinstaubplakette and pay only 2x the price that residents pay rather than 4x the price.
although for most travellers to the Alps via Germany, you probably won't need one anyway (tends to be more those travelling in summer and stopping off at various cities en route)
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| The website link in Gazza's original post looks to be a bit of a scam site - that link is charging €29.65 for the vignette, whereas the official French government website is only charging €3.70 plus postage (thanks Hells Bells for that info). https://certificat-air.gouv.fr/ |
Wow, cheeky of them, masquerading as an official site.
I got that original link from an RAC article!
I'll delete the link in my original post. Nothing winds me up moer than these sites that provide an unoffical front (and tidy markup!) for official services.
Thanks
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You know it makes sense.
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And the English version of the official site goes live on 1 Feb 17, according to the front page here:
https://www.certificat-air.gouv.fr/
Not sure for my O9 Reg oil burner if the Euro rating is on the V5, so I suppose I will just go off the dates. From the press lots of towns seem to be going for it, amazed Chambery isn't - it must be one of the most polluted places. It should only cost about €4 (as some have mentioned there are many scam sites - just like the EHIC ones in the UK).
Still not seen a sticker in Tignes!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@BMG, Grenoble - Yes it is and the dual carriageway goes through the centre - unlike Lyon which has a number of autorote bypasses. At the moment Paris have only banned 20 year old diesels, so not that bad.
@Arctic Roll, Given most renters are less than a year old it won't matter
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Poster: A snowHead
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davidoff, should know about this as he lives in Grenoble, or just outside, that said so does my brother but 40km further - I can't see this working at busy peak holiday periods though ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| marcellus wrote: |
| Thanks @JamesHJ, seems I'm class 1!, I guess that means I'll be amongst the last to be restricted from driving on high pollution days.. just need to figure out how to buy one of them now! |
I'm pleased that my 6.8l V8 Humvee is also class 1, so I'll be parking it with the engine running outside the Mayor of Grenoble's apartment block when I do my shopping - wouldn't want the red diesel sludging in the cold weather.
They were stopping cars at the St Egrève and Crolles péages on Tuesday I think. I checked the works car park though - right inside the zone and about 1 in 5 cars have the vignettes as of yesterday.
There is a whole range of daft legislation in the pipe in France at the moment. It is the Socialist party version of the Nero Decree. Leaving the biggest load of shit possible for the new government to sort out. Fro example the are changing to a PAYG tax system in 2018 with 2017 being an "année blanche". What this means is in 2017 you'll pay your tax on your 2016 revenues and in 2018 you'll pay tax on 2018 revenues. You won't avoid tax but there are implications if your revenue in 2017 is very different from other years. It also means dead people won't have to pay tax on the year before they died. The other biggie is that French University places will be allocated by lottery! (I kid you not). The idea is to give the thick and feckless a random chance to go to a good university.
The tax thing risks leaving the incoming government short of money.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 26-01-17 19:44; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As i'm moderator. I'll edit the OP to include the offical link, which is live for foreign vehicles from 1st Feb. It costs 3,70€ plus postage.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
The other biggie is that French University places will be allocated by lottery!
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So they are adopting the English system then.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@JamesHJ, Was a bit worried as we have a VW diesel (maybe 4 years old), but it came out as a level 2
But then again it might be a level 5, depends on how VW did the test 
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| skitow wrote: |
| .. but I find it hard to believe that a Hdi diesel engine with a CAT and DPF is more polluting than a 12 year old petrol car as that is the way it comes out on that calculator for the cars we have. I know it is the very small particles from the diesel that they are targeting but I am still surprised. |
Actually it's not just the very small particulates (PM10 and PM2.5) from diesels that they are targetting, but also the oxides of Nitrogen (NOx). Diesel engine cars produce many times the NOx emissions of petrol engined cars.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Alastair Pink, OK fair enough, I thought the focus was on the particulates.
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Interesting - something to keep an eye on. Pollution is pretty bad at the moment. Drove back yesterday and there were lots of signs that the speed limit 20km/hour below normal, the full length of my journey. I did pretty well stick to 70 on the (dry) motorway and, actually, it made little difference to my journey time and no doubt saved me money on diesel.
I think that paying for the right to pollute makes all kinds of ideological and financial sense, but as illustrated by discussion above, not easy to organise.
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FAQ
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from ADH to Lyon and they were out in several places. When I have been stopped in a "control" before giving the gendarmes the half of the log book written in Welsh usually ends up in an explanation of the CYM country identifier on the numberplate and then a conversation about rugby, any actual check then got forgotten. 