HEAD Supershape ski failure after just 66 days use

A snowHead

Last year I unpacked my skis in resort to find one of them had a significant outwards bulge in the base material, towards the tip. Next to the bulge, on the side of the ski, the metal edge and base had separated from the upper layers and a grey powdery substance was coming out of the gap.

I asked a local ski technician if he could repair the ski and if he knew what could have caused the damage. He examined it with one of the other technicians and they told me they had seen the same problem on one of their Rossignol rental skis, but towards the tail in that case, and they did not know the cause of the damage.

He suggested that perhaps water had entered the gap and some kind of chemical reaction had occurred, but could not be sure. He attempted to repair the ski but told me the gap kept reopening. He advised that the ski should not be used again because it would be extremely dangerous if the gap reopened when the skis were being used at speed.

I've only used the skis for a total of 66 days skiing since I purchased them and I'm interested in finding out whether my storage or servicing habits (see below) might have contributed to this fault. I have already asked HEAD UK's Technical Services Manager this question via email. He responded that the skis could not be satisfactorily repaired in his opinion but did not offer an opinion about my storage or servicing habits, or what may have caused the fault.

The skis were never skied over rocks, or bashed on anything as far as I'm aware, and so never required anything other than waxing and edge tuning. The only crashes I can recall were a couple of low speed ones in 30 cm or more of soft, fresh powder.

Servicing history
The bases never needed repairing, according to the individuals who waxed them and tuned the edges.
2012 - 2 skiing trips (no servicing because the snow was soft)
2013 - 4 skiing trips (after the third trip I had them waxed and the edges sharpened)
2014 - 2 skiing trips (a simple edge & wax with no repairs necessary at the start of the first trip)
2015 - 2 skiing trips (no servicing because the snow was soft)
2016 - 2 skiing trips (no servicing because the snow was soft). At the start of the second trip, before skiing, I discovered the damage when I was checking the edges.

Storage
I always waited for them to dry out then put them in a hard plastic ski box with the bindings facing each other, so the bases of the skis were touching the the plastic ski box. The ski box was always stored vertically, in the corner of a bedroom, away from the radiator.

A snowHead

Weird - I'd have said edge hit because the sidewall looks a bit damaged from the photo. Guess it's feasible that there was a bit of void in the glue. As for skiing them - I've skied worst but having a ski fold in the middle of a hi G turn could be interesting.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Not sure if it is a result of the investigation/attempt to repair them, but it looks like that edge took a massive hit from the top surface, thereby bending the steel edge. Any chance something very heavy but blunt was dropped on your skis in transit?

If you flew, were they in a padded bag? I had a big dent put in a plastic Sportube case by the baggage system, which would have taken a heavy impact (no ski damage fortunately).

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Slightly off topic but when I read the thread title I read your user name as Walter-Splitty and thought well there's the problem.

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@Walter-Spitty, hmm a failure after 2 weeks I would deem a real problem. Failure after 5 years and 12 trips is rather different.

A key thing...did you drive back with them on the roof? 12 ski trips in salt spray can cause a lot of problems on skis. I have seen exactly this on a new pair of Elans which did one trip on the roof of a car. Putting them into slightly damp conditions could then cause quite a lot of problems since these skis are actually full of aluminium. Salt and aluminium don't mix well. Note the construction of these skis:

From
http://www.backcountry.com/explore/ski-construction-explained

Titanal
It’s also possible to use a certain form of metal in the actual ski laminate next to the core or fiberglass. Because of the amount the metal has to bend, however, this requires a specific type of metal that has high stiffness but can also bend and flex with the ski without cracking or yielding (becoming permanently bent). This material is called “Titanal,” and only one company in the world makes it, due to its unique combination of properties.
Titanal adds stiffness to skis and is often found in stiff all-mountain skis and racing skis. Even in these high-performance skis, manufacturers typically only use a sheet that’s about a half-millimeter thick. The other great benefit of Titanal is that it damps out vibrations because its bending stiffness is so different from the other materials surrounding it.
Though it sounds like “Titanium,” Titanal is actually an aluminum alloy that includes no Titanium. However, there are other metal laminates that do contain trace amounts of Titanium. When you read a product description that says a ski has a Titanium laminate, that actually means it has an aluminum alloy laminate with only a very small amount of Titanium in it.

The grey powder coming out almost certainly is aluminium oxide, most likely caused by water with a high level of salts in it. There may have been a minor defect in the skis, but once oxidation starts, the pressures exerted in a constrained place are huge, hence the bulging. The bulge is most likely not caused by an impact, but by oxidation reaction.

Minor side hit an one point, tiny crack possibly invisible to the naked eye, ingress of water (particularly if on a roof rack all the way through France) and salts and then the scene is set for exactly what you have, I am afraid.

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@valais2, that sounds eminently plausible and the first sensible argument for covering skis on roof racks that I've heard.

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Certainly the factory includes oxidation and abuse - neglect as standard issue....................

After all it is free

I agree with the above assessment, and to elaborate;

It's corrosion facilitated by the metal components being located at differing points on the galvanic scale.

Many people have test rigs for this, most recognisable as an old Land Rover.

As the ski edge is steel and the interlayer is aluminium based they are located with an important difference on the galvanic scale, and given a supply of mild electrolyte (salty water) one component starts to break down as it tries to migrate to the other material. Usually the aluminium components.
Anything bonded to the aluminium is effectively released as if finds itself bonded to aluminium oxide powder, obviously without the structural integrity that the material started with. In addition, the resulting corrosion will expand significantly, pushing the layers apart even as you are sleeping.
They can't be repaired, I believe that is correct.
You'd have to avoid storing them in conditions that promote these circumstances in the first place. After use they should be washed clean, you can't use washing up liquid as it will promote this process (kitchen cleaning agents usually use salts to modify the water and enhance the ability to clean off oils and grease, it's why you can't put aluminium containing pans into the dishwasher) but car shampoo should be ok.
If packing up from a ski holiday, they should ideally be washed (use the shower) and left to dry before packing to return. Or just dry them and use a spray lubricant. I've always sprayed mine before packing them in the ski bag and again before storage when I return and never had any problems like this. I currently use a spray From Asda which is about half the cost of proprietary brands and works realty well.
Titanal is really about 99.99% bullocks, you could call it aluminium alloy passed through a PR department containing someone thinking about Titanium and may as a result be advantageously coloured by an interpretation that suggests it's superior in some way to some other notional property Little Angel

@ski3, "I currently use a spray From Asda .." what is its name please ?

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In ? ~ 1,400 ski days i've never sprayed skis and never had a problem ... over kill ...

I think the explanation makes good sense but I don't think it's such a likely event that it needs to be worried about overmuch.

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In ? ~ 1,400 ski days i've never sprayed skis and never had a problem ... over kill ...

I think the explanation makes good sense but I don't think it's such a likely event that it needs to be worried about overmuch.

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@albob, I would avoid a lot of lubricating sprays like WD40 for this, they have a nasty habit of eating some plastics. I would use either bumper black (designed for plastics) or silicone lubricating spray (Maplins) if you want to spray stuff on skis.

I thought salt was used as a thickening agent in washing up liquid rather than because it added anything to the effectiveness of a detergent?

You know it makes sense.

Does the water have to be salty to cause this? My indoor SL skis have delam'd from the tail like this but worse, and I assumed the cause to be normal water ingress due to a gap in the seal at that point. Perhaps indoor snow has salt content, I don't know, it certainly isn't clean fluffy white stuff!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Over the years I have had two pairs of skis delaminate. Both pairs were slalom skis and had a pretty hard life on dry slopes. One pair it was the top sheet coming away tip and tail on both sides of both skis. We tried, really hard with clamps and epoxy but never managed to repair them. They were OK as recreational skis. I was using the other pair on snow and noticed a strage behaviour on turns in one direction, a failure to grip at the tip followed by a sudden grab. Originally I thought there was something wrong with the edges and took them in for repair. After a close examination the technician showed me the delamination. His reccommened that this be the last season on those skis and to keep the delamination on the outside. I scapped the skis.

@Walter-Spitty, Sorry the skis are scrap. I think a pair of skis only lasts 100 days anyway so you got 2/3 of the life out of them. By the time my skis get to that age they have base repairs, edge sharpened 7 or 8 times and waxed about the same amount. Better luck next time.

A snowHead

@Digger the dinosaur, Tanks..!

A snowHead

some people suggest wiping the edges with zardoz but that must be much pricier than the alternatives

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Spray from Asda is labelled, general maintenance spray, their version of wd 40. It's nothing special just alot cheaper than headline brands.

Corrosion caused by material's differences is factually based on galvanic interaction when subjected to immersion in an electrolyte, you'd need to describe "have a nasty habit of eating plastics" in some more relevant terms to prove it's more detrimental to the skis than the corrosion that is evident in the failure of the example of the OP.

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Many thanks everyone. I'm really grateful for the advice. I'll rent skis again until I find some that are truly worthy of buying. I could never get much rebound out of the Supershape Speed and want a little more liveliness next time.

@Dave of the Marmottes, yes the sidewall looks a bit damaged in the photos but I think the picture is exaggerating it.

@PowderAdict, the skis were always transported in a hard plastic box.

@valais2, I wasn't overly concerned about the ski dying after 12 trips, but the ski technician was amazed it had failed after just 66 days use. He told me he has owned and used multiple skis that have been skied over two full seasons with nothing like this ever happening to them. The skis were always transported in a hard plastic box that is pretty well sealed.

Thanks for the aluminium oxide and Titanal information. That explanation sounds highly plausible. I'm also glad there are more than a few of us who know what Titanal is. I hear too many people talking about titanium when they usually mean Titanal.

@ski3, thanks for the explanation and helpful cleaning advice. I never washed them.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

For snowboards at least Titanal is generally 3mm thick. There have been recent rumours of a shortage.

It looks like the results of a specific impact. Sure, the chance of that happening increases with the time used/ number of flights taken, but it's still just probability.
There's no guarantee that it's not going to happen on day one. Time to move on and buy something better..

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@Walter-Spitty, use and age are not the same thing.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

There are plenty of alloy variants using predominantly aluminium that perform really well, most of us fly in those materials regularly. They just don't have an interesting name so they made up one with tit and anal, can no one see its just funny. Funnier still if you pay extra for it.

It may well have received an impact, but predominantly aluminium alloy just doesn't turn to dust from impact, it needs to corrode into grey powdery aluminium oxide.

After all it is free

There are plenty of alloy variants using predominantly aluminium that perform really well, most of us fly in those materials regularly. They just don't have an interesting name so they made up one with tit and anal, can no one see its just funny. Funnier still if you pay extra for it.

It may well have received an impact, but predominantly aluminium alloy just doesn't turn to dust from impact, it needs to corrode into grey powdery aluminium oxide.

love the dramatic title of the thread, possibly changing it to 66 days use AND 4 YEARS OLD maybe give people a better idea of what they are looking at

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@CEM, Yes I was also wondereing why 12 trips only came to 66 days. However what other unit of use would you use for measuring how much use a pair of skis has had than days.

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@johnE, age surely is a factor, my old Rossi 7S have maybe 30 days on them but are 20 years old ...

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Skis don't disintegrate with age do they. Do manufacturers put an age limit on them Puzzled

Saying how many days use they've had seems the only real way to quantify their use. If I buy skis and don't use the for 5 years should I expect them to have deteriorated.

@CEM, I thought the title might get some attention and ensure more responses. Is 4 years old really that old for a ski if it hasn't had much use? You seem to imply that skis deteriorate over time - is that correct?

@johnE, 11 trips x 6 days skiing on each trip. The damage was discovered at the beginning of trip twelve.

You know it makes sense.

@geeo, not a lot I grant you but oxidative, gravitational and UV stresses must play a small part?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

All i know is i have skis more than 4 years old and skis iv'e used more than 66 days and i have no qualms about using either, damage is damage and what's caused this is anybodies guess.
I don't see any correlation to it and the age of the ski's and there are plenty of old ski's kicking about that are perfectly fine, maybe it was a Friday afternoon ski, maybe the glue wasn't spread properly here or never activated, lots of possibilities.
I like the idea of the galvanic corrosion it sounds plausible but i would have thought it would have needed a decent bit of damage to start it off, would a small crack causing very minor water/salt ingress cause this over such a short period of time? iv'e no idea how fast the process happens, although i would have thought the different metals would have been insulated from each other by the glue between layers but again iv'e no real idea.

As for your storage or servicing habits @Walter-Spitty i don't think they have anything to do with this, your description of how you care for them sounds way better than iv'e done for a lot of my skis

A snowHead

I have skis that are considerably older and considerably more used than these things and have never bothered about washing or wiping them down after use. No problems, other than that the ski technician invariably raises his eyebrows when confronted with the rusty edges for their November service. I can live with it!

A snowHead

@under a new name, aye up .... let's look back at the photos .... pretty rusty edges.

Then let's read the original description of storage - into a fairly airtight plastic box at the end of the trip and then stored.

Let's think about that

Skis only dry out fully after about 24 hours - loads of snow and water lurks in the bindings. I bring skis into the boiler room after a day out and the bindings are dry on the outside and then six hours later I can pour and shake maybe 20cc of water out of the bindings.

If you are leaving resort and externally drying off the skis and then sticking them in a plastic ski box that's going to be a mighty damp environment.

Even if you then take them out and check them to see if they are dry when you get back, there still can be moisture lurking in the bindings, if they then go back into a sealed box that's going to be damp enough for corrosion to occur.

Our place is full of skis - open a wardrobe and they cascade out. Look under a bed and they'll be sitting there happily. Open the garage and they are lined up along the side waiting to be knocked over in the memorable clattering avalanche we know so well from outside restaurants.

Even quite posh skis live in the garage, but always with a liberal coat of storage wax - bottom end Toko. And the garage has got a load of Alp and fir trees on the top, whose naughty roots have wrecked the membrane and so we do have some water ingress sometimes. But never any corrosion on the skis, since base and edges have a nice coating of thick wax all over them. Quick scrape and brush....ready to go.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@valais2,

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@Hurtle, ....spot on...

Narnia storage....

big thing in our place

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@valais2,

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Intrigued by what has happened to these skis, I've looked further into what processes are used to manufacture this type of structure. This is what I understand of that lead up to manufacture.

The alloy, no it doesn't contain any titanium, is effectively a high strength aerospace spec material with important attributes, one area of which is its outright strength. It's orientated toward age hardened, meaning it's ultimate strength is built up during manufacture to a delivered specification that will remain throughout its usable life. The important part of its specification to us skiers is that it mostly avoids "work hardening " which would through bending etc, lead to a change in its characteristics and work toward fatigue failure. Pretty desirably for both us and the aero industry.

One of the handling limitations of bonding to aluminum based materials is that after they've been made then a very thin layer of corrosion forms on the surface which as an outer protection is quite effective, just looks a little dull. If you bond with a resin to that boundary layer, when put under the stress you're asking for in structures like skis, the corrosion layer detaches from its core material and effectively releases the resin along with what's attached to that resin.

It follows that to use this material in ski manufacture, you'd have to immediately prior to applying resin, remove that corrosion layer either physically (or possibly by chemical treatment) then coat without delay the material with resin to avoid the corrosion re-establishing itself.
The resultant components would then be available (alloy ski shape with thin layer of resin coating) to the further production line in building up the skis as you'd get a resin to resin bond further down the line having delt with the corrosion issue by encapsulation.

IF THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH PRODUCTION, it would be at the stage I've just described. Say a part was not adequately cleaned/protected at this stage, then it's quite conceivable that it would later result it a failure of this type. It's entirely normal to get some level of failure rate through any manufacturing process, you have to be able to cope with many interfaces throughout. Intelligent reliable systems have to take that into account, it's normal. The consequential operations should avoid delivering to customer any failed parts, but just occasionally a small sample may pass undetected.

BUT, to corrode that thickness of material to dust is not possible without providing the right conditions of moisture etc to propagate and maintain its corrosive reaction. You must supply the conditions to do that.

The sequence of events leading to that failure is certainly debatable. Somehow the corrosion has been able to travel between those layers for which the resin to alloy bond must have been lost.
How it was lost is what we don't know, it's either over torqued, present from manufacturing or corrosion from the very unprotected edge of the alloy has ventured further into to layers. I can't see any other method. It would still need ongoing favourable conditions to keep that corrosion going though.
So the storage environment must have played a part, but it seems that the first steps on that path are the important ones it getting the process going.

After all it is free

@ski3, interesting thought - indeed we never see aluminium - we always see aluminium oxide, since all aluminium exposed to air has a layer of aluminium oxide on it. Let's add a bit of geometry to this. Skis have a thickness, so when they bend downwards - as in a turn - the layers on the outer side of the radius (the base) have to stretch, whilst the top layers come into compression. This places a LOT of mechanical force on the boundary between layers. These atomic skis are sidewall skis, so the outside of the sandwich after a sharpening will have exposed edges to all the layers, which are flexing one against the other all the time. This is not like a cap construction ski. If these exposed sides of the layers are not hot waxed,any slight separation of the layers will allow water ingress. I think your analysis of the construction process is good, and combined with the point of geometry re layer loadings, tge likelihood of the kind of defect experienced by the op is really high I think

@valais2, yes I'm amazed at the durability these things have, and what we ask of them.

It's quite impressive what they do really. I was also considering what you've pointed out, capped construction versus open sandwich. There appears to me a greater need to make sure you don't allow an environment to corrode any more vulnerable parts of the open construction.
I respect the Head brand, I've got an old pair of early Monsters that I think are still my favourite ski but they are cap construction and many years older than this example. They are just so sublimely smooth with big soft shovels that ride up and over anything even if I have made a dog's dinner of things.
The original subject of this post do have an unusual level of corrosion going on from what's visible in the photos.

A slightly different part of this subject. I believe that P-tex base is Polyethylene, derived from petro-chemicals, and as such is compatible with many lubricants of the same origins. Is that an over simplification of things? Does anyone have any factual evidence to disprove this? Aren't most waxes also petro based as well? I can't see any obvious incompatibility, but don't really know enough in this area. Will have to find a materials specialising chemist to quiz about it.
As I've said above, I use general lubrication spray on mine at end of use and prior to storage, then cleaning, prepping and waxing prior to next use. I've been doing this for more than 15 yrs with absolutely no problems and never any corrosion.

Polyethylene, is another material I believe we are sold as super special "P-tex" but just as commonly found in things like plastic bags and push fit plumbing assemblies to name a couple. I know it's probably a sintered structure in ski bases now, but basically the same.

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@ski3, ....p-tex....try this:

http://fasterskier.com/fsarticle/how-its-made-base-material/

But I think you may be 'just about getting away with it' by using lubrication spray - probably has quite viscous oils in a carrier, which evaporates very quickly. P-tex does not like solvents:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263946103_Effect_of_Solvents_on_De-Cross-Linking_of_Cross-Linked_Polyethylene_under_Subcritical_and_Supercritical_Conditions

I use citrus de-greaser very occasionally (nice smell ... mmmmmmmm) perhaps one every two years, but for storage use hot wax - takes 10 mins even with HUGE skis - rather than use solvent-base spray as storage medium.

Help!!

HEAD Supershape ski failure after just 66 days use

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