 Poster: A snowHead
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Debate had yesterday
Skied 171 skis last weekend but the skis aren’t available as of Sunday, been offered the same make model but 3cm longer ie 174
Will this make much difference?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Who makes two sizes of a ski that close together?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Steve77, Most companies. Certainly in the SL/GS range.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've thought of asking this myself, especially as turn radius changes significantly from length to length, I think the wd preachers go from a 14m radius @ 169 to 19? @ 189, to me, these would ski like two completely different skis. For me, 185cm tall and 90kg, the 179 or 189 would be recommended but I would probably be happier on the 169s, I've just bought some 2nd hand Head Venturi 95s @181 and they look enormous! I'll see how they go tomorrow.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As you go longer the radius pushes out a bit in order to maintain a consistent geometry and a ski that broadly performs the same. A 189 Preacher with a 14m sidecut would be too "spoony" I suspect and a real handful when trying to run straight.
The Icelantic Shaman was/is 17m at 184 and I wouldn't want to go tighter than that as it is basically a big mtn SL ski.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| 1969jma wrote: |
Debate had yesterday
Skied 171 skis last weekend but the skis aren’t available as of Sunday, been offered the same make model but 3cm longer ie 174
Will this make much difference? |
it depends on how you ski and what stage you are at in your skiing experience. If you carv down the blues and reds then 174 should be fine, but if you do skid turns on the steeps (to control your speed) then you may find it a bit more difficult to do this with a longer ski, it may only be marginal, but it might impact your confidence. On the whole though, i'd go for it and see if it feels more stable for you
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Differences like that in the same model will not be massively noticeable to many people.
+ while radius will change a bit, it won’t change that much. Radius as a whole is a much, much smaller part of the equation than torsional rigidity or longitudinal stiffness.
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| 1969jma wrote: |
Debate had yesterday
Skied 171 skis last weekend but the skis aren’t available as of Sunday, been offered the same make model but 3cm longer ie 174
Will this make much difference? |
It will make enough difference that they bothered to offer those alternative lengths in the first place. I would imagine the 174 is somewhat stiffer than the 171, not merely a bit longer. It probably won't change them enough for you to go from loving to hating them, but I wouldn't bet on them feeling exactly the same.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| tangowaggon wrote: |
| I've thought of asking this myself, especially as turn radius changes significantly from length to length, I think the wd preachers go from a 14m radius @ 169 to 19? @ 189, to me, these would ski like two completely different skis. |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| As you go longer the radius pushes out a bit in order to maintain a consistent geometry and a ski that broadly performs the same. A 189 Preacher with a 14m sidecut would be too "spoony" I suspect and a real handful when trying to run straight. |
Whilst not saying that this theory is wrong... I think it is ultimately because the manufacturer uses the same dimensions at the tip, waist and tail. So by elongating the ski, you end up with a different shaped sidecut which thus provides a different turn radius. If the Preacher retained it's actual shape throughout the range, the ski would need different dimensions at each point in order to remain 'in scale'.
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| dp wrote: |
Whilst not saying that this theory is wrong... I think it is ultimately because the manufacturer uses the same dimensions at the tip, waist and tail. So by elongating the ski, you end up with a different shaped sidecut which thus provides a different turn radius. If the Preacher retained it's actual shape throughout the range, the ski would need different dimensions at each point in order to remain 'in scale'. |
Actually manufacturers often do vary the tip, waist and tail widths as they go up in length and yet they still usually increase the radius. For example if you take the Head iRally, the shovel goes from 132 to 136, waist from 74 to 77 and tail from 112 to 115 over the range of lengths from 149 to 177. Radius goes up from 10.6 to 14.7 m. So they are increasing radius deliberately, not just as a by-product of increasing length.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@uktrailmonster, are you sure they are from the same model year?
Mfrs sometimes change measuring points, f’rinstance.
Must admit that Rossignol f’rinstance use 8cm gaps.
I’d imagine longer of same model would be less stiff, although I have no particular idea how the presses are set up.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Stiffness has nothing to do with the pressing process, it’s usually core thickness or varying materials in the layup process.
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| dp wrote: |
| tangowaggon wrote: |
| I've thought of asking this myself, especially as turn radius changes significantly from length to length, I think the wd preachers go from a 14m radius @ 169 to 19? @ 189, to me, these would ski like two completely different skis. |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| As you go longer the radius pushes out a bit in order to maintain a consistent geometry and a ski that broadly performs the same. A 189 Preacher with a 14m sidecut would be too "spoony" I suspect and a real handful when trying to run straight. |
Whilst not saying that this theory is wrong... I think it is ultimately because the manufacturer uses the same dimensions at the tip, waist and tail. So by elongating the ski, you end up with a different shaped sidecut which thus provides a different turn radius. If the Preacher retained it's actual shape throughout the range, the ski would need different dimensions at each point in order to remain 'in scale'. |
With some very rough calculations on the FIS radius calculator thing, to get a 14m radius 189 Preacher you'd be looking at a tip width of around 182mm... Which would be pretty ridiculous and likely impossible hooky that far out in front of you. I suppose you could bring the widest point way back towards the bindings and add an obscene amount of tip taper, but that would be equally ridiculous and create a FAR different ski than the 5m variation in radius does.
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You know it makes sense.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@uktrailmonster, are you sure they are from the same model year?
Mfrs sometimes change measuring points, f’rinstance.
Must admit that Rossignol f’rinstance use 8cm gaps.
I’d imagine longer of same model would be less stiff, although I have no particular idea how the presses are set up. |
Yeah definitely same year, you can easily look them up for yourself if you don't believe me. I took those iRally numbers straight off the Head website.
Longer skis of same model are usually made proportionally stiffer for the heavier beasts who will use them, which makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
Actually manufacturers often do vary the tip, waist and tail widths as they go up in length and yet they still usually increase the radius. For example if you take the Head iRally, the shovel goes from 132 to 136, waist from 74 to 77 and tail from 112 to 115 over the range of lengths from 149 to 177. Radius goes up from 10.6 to 14.7 m. So they are increasing radius deliberately, not just as a by-product of increasing length. |
Sorry when I said the manufacturer I meant Whitedot who do not.
@clarky999, I agree with what you're saying and hence wasn't 'disagreeing' with DOTM - but the point is all the same. By using the same widths on a different length ski, you're changing the overall geometry of the ski and thus the turning radius will change too.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@uktrailmonster, 170 or 177 from Head website...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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