 Poster: A snowHead
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All,
Since booking our Xmas trip I can't help myself but keep checking how many other rooms have sold and so far only 1 other room has gone. I have checked other chalets in the resort (Les Arc) and they are the same. Clearly people are either booking very last minute of the Xmas Eve / NYE flights are putting people off.
Price today for a catered chalet with Crystal Ski £421............................
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Maybe people are wary of the generally poor Christmas conditions seen in the past few years?
I've just booked the week before Christmas in Val d'Isere so hoping this year isn't the case 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Ouster, I get that people are cautious of previous years conditions but surely its wroth the gamble at the prices they are selling them at now? Just to get food cooked for you and the wine in the evenings!
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@chrisrawles, I think books for the holiday weeks are generally down, probably a combination of 2 or 3 years of poor early snow, the travel days for Christmas and New Yer not being great, and most schools returning before the end f the NY week. First time in a long time that my apartment in Les Arcs hasn't been booked for New Year.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Maybe people are wary of the generally poor Christmas conditions seen in the past few years?
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we've had very little interest for xmas so far and it was the same last year. I think it is understandable given the poor conditions. If we get some snow in December I'm optimistic we'll get some inquiries given even the recent thaw hasn't removed the base on piste
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| chrisrawles wrote: |
All,
Since booking our Xmas trip I can't help myself but keep checking how many other rooms have sold and so far only 1 other room has gone. I have checked other chalets in the resort (Les Arc) and they are the same. Clearly people are either booking very last minute of the Xmas Eve / NYE flights are putting people off.
Price today for a catered chalet with Crystal Ski £421............................ |
What departure date is that?
If it's before the 22nd, then most kids will still be at school.
I'm struggling to find anything cheap departing on the 22nd/23rd/24th. Well at least from Gatwick anyway.
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A quick look at the Bookings on http://alpes-horizon.arkiane.com/ for apartments in Les Arcs vacant this season shows some interesting figures:
First of all the 25/3/2016 has 345 apartments available. Even though this is close to peak season it is the most vacancies in the year and we can take this as fairly close to their inventory.
Christmas week is at nearly 50% capacity, New Year week, a third capacity and Easter week 3% capacity, but then who will book for Easter now.
Normally New Year week is the busiest of the year, but it appears many people are not skiing this New Year. Christmas is always a bit lower than New Year, but this year it there are more bookings. Some of the half terms weeks are also not doing particularly well either at the moment
date vacancies Percent occupied
24/12/2016 177 49
31/12/2016 232 33
07/01/2017 252 27
14/01/2017 198 43
21/01/2017 265 23
28/01/2017 197 43
04/02/2017 143 59
11/02/2017 85 75
18/02/2017 76 78
25/02/2017 233 32
04/03/2017 253 27
11/03/2017 239 31
18/03/2017 321 7
25/03/2017 345 0
01/04/2017 309 10
08/04/2017 256 26
15/04/2017 335 3
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Our chalet in Les Gets, rather to our amazement, has been booked for Christmas, from 23rd for seven days, for a long time. We are nipping over,there for a fortnight till then, then back here arriving Christmas Eve afternoon, so the festive table will be set before we leave for some of the family joining us on Christmas Day.
But New Year is still available from 30th which we honestly had expected to go first. If it doesn't go we will meander our way back that week. We have also said that we will accept bookings of four, five or six nights if that made it more attractive.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Crystal have been heavily discounting NY week which is almost unheard of. I booked DIY to Selva months ago, friends now picking up packages out of Edinburgh with an extra day for less 
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All very interesting. The poor snow conditions at the beginning of the last few seasons must be making a difference. But people are increasingly aware that they have choices, and that booking well in advance for such marginal weeks (snow-wise) is neither wise nor necessary.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think the date for start of term is the real killer in terms of bookings. Most schools going back 3rd or 4th, but NY week doesn't start until 31st if going for the traditional Saturday travel day (30th for my apartment for an 8 night week, not that it has tempted anyone).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| pam w wrote: |
| All very interesting. The poor snow conditions at the beginning of the last few seasons must be making a difference. But people are increasingly aware that they have choices, and that booking well in advance for such marginal weeks (snow-wise) is neither wise nor necessary. |
Early booking for NY week is normally necessary if you want to to meet your exact requirements. If people have choices about their dates surely the smart play is to wait and go in the first full week of January when prices are lower and resorts are much quieter?
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@rob@rar, we decided quite early on in the year to go out ourselves for Christmas and New Year. Sons wanted to come and with one back at university and the other's place of work closed from 23rd December it made sense. We would probably have changed our arrival day in any case, as it is usually a Sunday to fit in with cleaners and management.
Not everywhere is quite so quiet in the first week though, we usually have a Russian couple staying then.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Now I am not renting I am going to Flachau the day after boxing day returning on Monday 2nd. 5 days bonus skiing and no need to fit in with changeover days. Daft thing is I am out again on Saturday 7th for 2 weeks. Hardly worth coming home but it's done now
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Pamski, pretty similar situation with us too!
I had a very early booking for Xmas (last spring). It created a nice flexible mid-week change over for New Year too (28/29/30 check in). I thought this would sort out the awkward arrival on New Year's Eve and would really help to sell the week....WRONG!
I then discovered (stupidity on my part) that the school holidays in the UK are pretty much over by the 2nd/3rd Jan and the kids have to get back to their real education!
So the knock-on is that all family bookings straddling the New Year are out the window as the kids have to get back.
We normally have the whole place booked out by a single group (have the last 10 years!) but this year we didn't even get any enquiries!
So now we are trying to flog the week by the room and have put it on the OTA's.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@flangesax, well if we do finally get a NY booking we will see if you still have a room available! But do you allow dogs?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The Alps are the canary in the coalmine for global warming.
Less snow and less frost are causing less skiing, less skiers, and less bookings.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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There's a bit of a perfect storm going on of:
- a general trend to later booking
- 3 years of slow season starts, even if the actual skiing for many guests hasn't been as bad as it would have been pre-snowmaking - most guests have relatively low requirements as far as snow goes...!
- weird/tricky xmas/NY changeovers
- Brexit/Trump FX jitters and so uncertain costs and general uncertainty
We don't count on xmas week but even then we still have one NY week available. That said, we changed the furniture and then the pictures on that apartment last winter and I am wondering if that's made a difference!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@under a new name, That's exactly how i've been describing it to others!
@Pamski, don't be so hard on yourself 
Of course!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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First time ever that my apartment hasn't been booked for New Year.
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I know our dates have been blocked on our calendar for a while, but we would normally still get a few enquiries or requests for cancellations for NY week. Conversely, our normally quiet January is fully booked.
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I think a lot of TOs have shot themselves in the foot by moving the changeover day. Going from Sat/Sun to Fri I could understand but many of the big operators have gone to Tue (20th). Many people won't finish work for Xmas by then and with a late easter next year schools are breaking up for Xmas as late as possible; Result is they can't book that week. Combine with poor snow and pound and I think they're just not bothering.
I always book late for Xmas but I've not seen the discounts as high so early before.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@mikeycharlton, 24th we depart. And as of yesterday Crystal were selling this date under £500
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| Ghost Dog wrote: |
| Crystal have been heavily discounting NY week which is almost unheard of. I booked DIY to Selva months ago, friends now picking up packages out of Edinburgh with an extra day for less |
A mate at work has just booked Grand Bois in La Tania for Christmas week for about £700 for the four of them. As they (don't) say on Masterchef "Skiing doesn't get cheaper than this"
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@adithorp, I agree. I looked at this as an option but then realised getting time off work before the Xmas shutdown is not ideal and with the last 3 years being low on snowfall the later we can hold out the better chance of the end of December snow dump LOL
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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With very little natural snow we still had a great time at La Tania last Christmas, so main risk for us booking earlier this year is that the deals are a lot better now. I'd happily ski just on Folyers all week if it is fully cannoned as it was last year though, so perhaps am easily pleased! Courchevel 1850 did have similarly complete artificial cover on its home runs, btw. On the flip side we got a cracking late deal to Val d'Isere at Easter, when we expected to holiday from home with a few days up North.
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| adithorp wrote: |
I think a lot of TOs have shot themselves in the foot by moving the changeover day. Going from Sat/Sun to Fri I could understand but many of the big operators have gone to Tue (20th). Many people won't finish work for Xmas by then and with a late easter next year schools are breaking up for Xmas as late as possible; Result is they can't book that week. Combine with poor snow and pound and I think they're just not bothering.
I always book late for Xmas but I've not seen the discounts as high so early before. |
Conversely, probably the only reason we booked with Crystal this year was that they offered flight dates on the 27th Dec. Wife is always reluctant to go before Xmas day itself so 24th was unlikely, and 31st was impossible as she's a teacher and was back at work on 5th Jan (she's subsequently moved schools and now actually doesn't go back until the 9th, but we didn't know that at the time and our son still goes back on the 5th).
The wife also doesn't like leaving it late to see what we can pick up so decision was made months ago, and we just have to take what comes with regards to snow conditions.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Ravelin, we have booked the same dates as yourself with Crystal. Perfect timing for us.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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In Canada numbers are strong. Why? Possibly because the Canadian dollar's weak compared with the US dollar, for reasons which are deeper than Trump's fake tan. I do expect to see a reduction in UK numbers; I'd run the numbers but the daily mail people would accuse me of pessimism and it makes no difference.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Re school holidays, that has caught people out. One of the Edinburgh schools is going back on the Thursday (5 Jan) and friends have booked with Crystal out 30 back 7 Jan without checking. Tee hee. Our kids go back on the 9th.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bagged a week in Flaine for 24th-31st Dec.
4 star self catering apartment with outdoor pool, sauna etc, looks really nice. It's a 6 person apartment, although only 4 of us will be using it, so should be nice and spacious.
£325pp including flights and transfers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@mikeycharlton, Thats a cracking deal
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well blow me but the chalet I am staying in over Xmas is now £376!! How on earth can the TO make any money on this?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I don't think they always do on the discounts. But its better to have people in as they are already paying for the chalet and the staff, so it covers the costs rather than losing out completely?
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@chrisrawles, you had better stop looking.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Pamski, Do it every time I book a holiday LOL. It's good market research. Well that's what I tell myself
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| Pamski wrote: |
| @chrisrawles, you had better stop looking. |
Never look, once you've booked!
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