foot steering?

A snowHead

Hope that someone can de-confuse me here; and hope that I'm not a 100% idiot in asking... Puzzled

Had a lesson recently where the instructor kept on saying that we do all the steering in ski-ing with the foot; steering being the operative word.
I've always skied (turned) by transferring some degree of weight to the uphill/outside ski, pressuring down into the ski (and slightly on the edge(s), perhaps, and maybe out too? Kind of like ice skating? And the more that I try to describe it sitting here the more idiotic I sound!), rolling the ankles and knees, putting some pressure on the tongues, somewhere along the line unconsciously leaning (and bending various parts of) the body as appropriate and, well, letting it happen. Perhaps it's how I naturally ski, perhaps my skis, which do like to edge very easily, and, OK, it's a bit simplified: but I certainly don't actively steer or rotate or point my feet or legs, that's the point. If I did, my skis would just pivot on the spot or slide out - and I was trying this is practice a while back and that's all that happened... Even in a snowplough turn I just stand there and transfer weight and press. At least, that's all that I think I do...
So what did they mean? Have I been missing something all these years? (Wouldn't surprise me! wink

)
Please be gentle... Blush

A snowHead

Before jumping down any necks there may be just a simple communication problem here.
It may have been said to encourage you to rely on your feet and legs more and to stop using your upper body.
IMO that seems more likely.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

They way I was taught (or at least remember) for a 'normal' turn you're meant to 'pop up' on to the balls of your feet and use your feet to initiate the turn, transitioning weight to the new downhill ski's inside edge and your feet back in to a balanced/even position. I think this becomes something you do without thinking and maybe that's that the instructor was referring to?

Of course I could be wrong - basic and slow turns are something I'm planning for a lesson on my next trip because while I've picked up carved turns on blues/reds and am happy keeping my shoulders pointing straight down a steep black last year I found I couldn't ski slowly on blues as well as my 3rd week friend! Embarassed

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There are three ways that we can make our skis follow a curved path:
1. We can tip them on edge
2. We can twist or rotate them in to a new direction
3. We can press them against or in to the snow.

The vast majority of turns include a blend of all three mechanisms, and that blend will vary depending on a wide range of factors including the type of snow, terrain, choices we make about how we want to ski, etc, etc.

Describing rotational steering as "foot steering" is not uncommon, but I think it is often confusing. However, there is no doubt that you, and all of us, blend in to almost all of our turns some measure of twisting, skidding, scraping, rotating (choose your favourite term here). The skill comes in blending in the right amount for the turns we want to make, and doing so in a smooth, progressive manner rather than just throwing the tails of the skis sideways at the start of every turn.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I am not an instructor, so what I am going to write is my understanding of this issue.

Back in the days of "straight" skis, in order to carve, you needed a lot of skill/speed/weight transfer, in order to bend the ski. This was too difficult and impractical for the average skier, who was taught to unweight by an "up and down movement", and then as they advanced, replacing some of this movement with more subtle foot steering.

With the advent of carving skis and their tighter turning radius, this foot steering was not always necessary...but still has its use in certain types of turn and terrain. It can be a very subtle action or a strong pivoting motion. It is quite possible to ski with no foot steering, provided you have the skill and can live within the turn radius capability of the ski (while remaining in control).

The steering of feet can come from the ankle, knee or hip (by far the most effective) and is a valuable tool provided you know when and how to use it.

Carving can come from rolling knees/ankles (knee angulation), which is quick from edge to edge; or from hips (hip angulation), which is much more powerful, as it allows you to remain "stacked" through the turn and feel more comfortable at higher speeds.

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Sounds like you were in a snowboard class Wink

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Ruddy skiers! Always stealing our steez!

After all it is free

As @rob@rar, has said there is 3 ways to influence a ski in a turn, Pressure, edge and rotation, all of these involve the feet, as they are the closest point of contact to the ski. I am guessing the problem with your lesson was how the message was communicated.

So in your examples of rolling the ankles and Knees, why are you doing that? TO chance the angel of the ski, if you start that movement from your toes, it creates a quicker transition and more efficient movement.The same for Snowplough there is an element of pointing, steering form the toes combined with the pressure on the outside ski that creates a more efficient turning movement.

The more adaptable and varied your skill set the better your skiing will be as it will allow you to adapt and alternate your abilities to the conditions and terrain. Lots of different ways to achieve the same thing.

I foot steer in powder on full rocker skis, especially in trees. But I can also do so on piste with the same skis at low speed, due to the 40cm effective edge (also unintentional 360's Shocked

).

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Any time you are not making cleanly linked carved turns (i.e., most of the time you are on anything steeper than red terrain, and often gentler than that) you are blending in at least some some rotary steering to your turn. Given that you foot is what drives your ski boots, and your ski boots are what drive your skis, it might be said that any time you are not doing clean carved turns you are "foot steering". Of course, your foot bone is connected to your shin bone, your shin bone is connected to your thigh bone, etc, etc, so do we really need to get in to an autopsy to determine which part of us is steering the ski?

Perhaps an alternative to getting confused about the term foot steering is to look at it in terms of what we are doing rather than the inputs we make? Can we vary our skiing so that we can, on demand, make turns which are cleanly carved? Can we make turns which are grippy, but not clean carves? Can we make turns which are skiddy, but still follow a smooth round path? Can we make very skiddy turns, skiing in a corridor which is similar in width to the length or your skis? If we can make each of those types of turn we are skilfully changing the blend of our steering elements (edging, twisting, pressing)

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I'm surprised to find it's a couple of years now since the last post on the Steered Vs Carved turns thread.

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=105783

In addition to Rob's excellent explanation perhaps I can just add a very specific example that shows that steering doesn't need to imply big skidding/scraping moves:

If you are linking relatively tight carved turns you sometimes (often) want to start the "next" carve at a closer to the fall line than simply riding the edges (even with a lot of angulation and pressure) would allow. If you release the ski from its reverse camber and move through the fall line you will unweight and in that moment you can steer your feet before picking up the new edge. Done right it is smooth, quiet and doesn't throw snow around.

You know it makes sense.

I have tried foot steering and it does work but I revert back to my old bad technique if things get difficult. The main thing is to get you weighton/ push down with your appropriate big toe when you turn. This gets your weight foreward and edges the ski. I try to practise on easier slopes

Chris

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

There is series of on line lessons which I found very useful

see:
http://youtube.com/v/DsuAAd4IEJo

This explains things much more than I ever could.

Chris

A snowHead

Ah, the 'phantom move'! Not a big fan of Harald, have to say. Bit of a one-trick-pony IMO.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Whats interesting about the video is the chap pre supposed that skiers have been taught to displace their skis sideways, rather than pivoting their skis under foot as per the steering elements Rob lists above.

I'd hope that the sort of displacement the chap shows at the start of the video isn't widely taught these days.

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Wow! Thanks guys, so far. A lot to digest there; but bit too busy digesting beer at the moment...

The comment was made by a mature instructor, so I think maybe some element of older style ski technique?
It was said in connection with turn shape and size (instructor not a carving fan, I know, and didn't seem to approve of what a previous instructor had advised re dropping knees, angulation/lean and using front quarters - i.e. more carving, I think).
My understanding was that it was something to do with the actual foot itself kind of making or driving the actual turn shape, rather than this shape being a function of pressure, the ski's edges (and other factors).

But:

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

My 2 pence worth

For most recreational skiers the most difficult turns are those performed on uneven, steep terrain with inconsistent snow conditions and natural obstacles.

Turns which are above their current ability level on terrain that frightens them.

However once the skier overcomes the fear they can often 'get down', albeit with little finesse and a whole load of effort and energy expended.

In my experience - and my go to when I'm looking for a student to improve their technical ability and understanding - the most difficult skiing from a technical standpoint is slow speed (travel) turns on green pitched (beginner slope) pisted runs.

The skier can't rely on momentum and gravity to 'get round the corner' and has to blend the appropriate amounts of balance, pressure changes / weight transference, foot steering and edging at the right time and in the right order to avoid excessive skidding and upper body rotation and/or falling over.

My viewpoint is supported by the number of aspirant and advancing ski instructors who fail the snow plough turn component of their exams.

If the OP 'can't seem to ski with flat skis, only on edges' I'm thinking that he/she has too much balance on the uphill ski and too much edging too early in the turn.

The solution is to detune the skiing, skiing on flatter skis, balance with the slope and rotate both skis in the direction that you want to travel at the start of the turn.

Both skis should move much like windscreen wipers on a windscreen.

Once both skis have 'wiped' far enough across the slope in the direction of travel if the OP is balanced with the slope of the mountain then the ski edges will engage and the turn will be completed on edge - carved.

Hope that makes sense.

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I once whiled away the time on a long button lift watching the ESF instructor in front of me doing "windscreen wiper" turns through 180 degrees, side to side. If I'd tried I'd have caught an edge and been off in 5 seconds. He'd certainly cracked pivoting skills.

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As identified above foot steering is more commonly used in snowboard instruction where it is essential. I take it to be a proxy in this case for pivoting or rotary skills which Rob so ably explains. You don't get very far in bumps or trees without rotary skills.

re the Harb. I'm as cynical as anyone re his messianic tendencies but having skied with some of his disciples ( who are confident enough not to bang on about it at all) and they kill it in the bumps - top to bottom zipper line.So there is something there.

After all it is free

Warren Smiths mob bang on about thigh steering I believe, my ski pal rates him.

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You know it makes sense.

The best instructors I've had were all BASI. Most of the ones I know are from Val D'Isere, as that's where I did a lot of skiing.

My advice if going to a resort, is ask here for recommendations before you go and then book them in good time before you go.

Failing that, look for British Ski schools, or Brits/Americans/Aussies who work in the local ski schools, by checking out websites where the staff can be listed (or simply phoning).

Sorry if this seems to be stating the obvious, but the majority of skiers that I have casually spoken to, usually turn up and book with the big local school, where it's a complete lottery as to who you get.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

@Grizzler, Laughing

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

For what it's worth my answer would be - depends on what you are doing. You need a range of different techniques for different terrain, speeds and ability. I personally don't like to rotate/skid or twist as I feel I get more control carving, particularly at quicker speeds. That said, I might use some foot steering at lower speeds for quick short radius turn initiation. But as has been said earlier thigh steering is better as you have far more muscle mass in the thighs that you do in the feet.

I came up through the Austrian Landes system so rotation, skidding and twisting is a no no; my son came up through the US PSIA system and they promote foot steering etc. Horses for courses I guess

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Dead right there, remember thigh burn fondly until I found out what worked for me (thank you Monika at Hugo Nindl race camp).

As always, Mr Warren Smith has something to say on the matter:

http://youtube.com/v/3gUAq3k3wvE

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Having skied with a variety of people (usually better than me) I have learnt there is more than one way to control getting down the hill, I guess thats why these posts always get such a variety of advice; which can often be contradictory!!!!

I'm no instructor and so can only talk about my experience mainly on piste):

For me:
Steeps = more edge or short radius. Proper steep - jump turns and prayer.
Bumps = depends - smallish ones, pivot on the top and carve around into the drop. Big bumps, carve through the valleys between.

I try to perform above with seperation

After all it is free

Those experts who claim to use foot steering must be skiing on sneakers. How on earth are you going to footsteer in your modern-age skiboot? (Which those same experts probably claim to wear tighter than tight!)
And the video of thigh-steering (presented as an alternative to foot steering) is totally hilarious, especially the gymnastic training suggestions.

Foot steering is a psychological trick to use -yes, totally old-school, but still so effective- your knees! (you'll already notice when trying to 'foot-steer' sitting on a chair, without skis)

I don't wear trainers, but I do like my underpants tighter than tight

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foot steering?

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