Knee Braces

A snowHead

Have a couple of questions regarding knee braces, having been having this problem with my knee and still not decided whether to cancel our trip or not. Its been mentioned by SWMBO to consider a knee brace.

So - How many snowHead

ski with a knee brace ?

What sort do you use ?

Where would I get one from ?

Realistically how much would I expect to pay - I know price would vary considerably and you get what you pay for.But you only buy it once and if it means the difference form skiing or not for the rest of my existence....

Does it affect yuor skiing ability, any limitations or hinderances with it ?

Im not convinved yet that its going to be very benefical, had a chat with a physio regarding one. He mentions that it would help with stability of the knee but so will muscle. He showed me one in a catalogue he has which looked ok. But it only allowed for 110 degree bend which I wondered if that would be enough ? On first impressions it seems ok for general skiing but would it be for more extreme sorts of stuff, and when checking how far 110 deg. was Im concerned about sitting on chairlifts.

Any help, info, and advice greatly appreciated.

A snowHead

Bones, my knee only bends to about 110 degrees. Getting on chairs can be hilarious, but I usually manage Laughing

I think braces help with the mind only, that said I usually use one.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Pro Line Pinto hinged both sides, cost can't, remember about £60 I think. I wear it for 7-8 hours no problem it has an additional pattella pad that can be put in which stabilizes the knee even more. I wouldn't be skiing without it. Very Happy

bloxy

Depends what you mean by knee brace.

If you mean a bit of wetsuit leg with or without some bits of plastic/metal hinge that you buy from a sports shop, then apart from keeping you warm of little real benefit.

If you mean a proper custom made orthopaedic appliance which controls the path of movement and range of flexion/extension of the joint, then can be of great benefit depending on the condition for which it is applied.

If you see anyone wearing one of these on the outside of their clothing they are performing an equivalent function of a sign round their neck saying I've got a jippy knee, they are not protecting the joint!

If you have a knee problem that you believe needs help then get a proper diagnosis and biomechanical assessment and the prescription of a suitable device. Otherwise concentrate on developing your muscles to control your knee's movement.

In my experience any of the neoprene type devices limit flexion because they bunch up behind the knee, if you continue to atempt to bend then that force is translated into forcing the lower leg forwards and further stressing the joint.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Innovations Sports (Cti) and Donjoy make knee braces for skiers. Most other brands are supports only, no matter how many hinges and straps they have. Do some googling, learn the differences, and decide exactly what you want to achieve.

For a brace expect to pay £300-£400 including fitting.

You'll need to Register first of course.

bloxy, snowbunny, agreed. If it is cheap and self fitted, then it will probably be of no use.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Bones, I used to ski with the neoprene type, but I gave them up - they make no difference. My husband won't go skiing without one on each knee - I reckon they're as much use as a St Christopher dangling in the car. He, however, swears by them and says they give the joint useful support. He has had two arthroscopies.

After all it is free

Bones, Last year I skied with a Donjoy knee brace following a disaster to my knee the previous year.

http://www.physioroom.com/product/Donjoy_Armor_with_Fourcepoint_Knee_Brace/2034/38207.html

I found it very comfortable, & it in no way inhibited my skiing. It really helped the stability & was really comfortable to wear. This year I skied without it & in fact have forgotten which was the bad knee Confused

I got it from the physio following consultant orthopaedic surgeon recommendation - not cheap, but worth every penny. Had to bemeasured up for it. I was back to playing tennis in it within 3 months of injuring my knee (ACL, medial & lateral ligaments, medial & collateral menisuses, & posterior capsule!). Also wore it while exercising leg - hamstrings & quads to aid stability.

Good luck with your knee

pam w, My husband wears neoprene knee protectors. He feels that the extra warmth they provide help his knees

bloxy

bloxy

You may find this helpful.

http://www.ski-injury.com/brace.htm

snow reports

bloxy,

You know it makes sense.

I wear something like this: http://www.bikeandrun.co.uk/bikeshop/images/vulkan/freeknee.jpg

The patella is covered though, and basically is just support for my patella. Obviously muscle is the way to go, but so far the brace has been fine with regards to motion and so forth and it does make my knee feel a lot stronger when I put it on.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Thanks guys for the help so far, I wasnt looking at a neoprene knee support, if I have to go down this route it will probably be of the other variety. As Im not sure of the nature of injury as yet - consultants are out on deciding on this one Confused

either playing a guessing game or cost limitation for the NHS. Doesnt sem like Im going to find out soon either Sad

So wondered how much, at this moment in time, a brace would be of benefit.

Im also concerned with any loss of range of movement/mobility with using one.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

geri:

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Tennis after 3 months Shocked

Much harder on the knees than skiing IMHO.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

oh8777, I tore them all, but not complete tears. I had no surgery - they said I was too old (cheek Evil or Very Mad

) & would only consider it if the knee proved to be unstable. I did lots of physio & gymwork though to strengthen it - & the brace was fantastic - it kept the knee quite stable with sideways & pivoting movements. So yes - tennis after 3 months Very Happy

Frosty the Snowman, You've not seen me play tennis Laughing

You'll need to Register first of course.

This site usually crops up in these discussions

http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/index.html

My ACL is snapped.
I use one of these
http://www.snowandrock.com/Brands/Bioskin/
psychological really, but as mentioned prviously, it also helps keep the knee warm

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

kermit,
Yeah same, I used a DonJoy Playmaker last time I skied.. am fairly sure that in the event that I crashed badly, it'd make little real difference - it's all in the mind though. The more you fear crashing or falling awkwardly, the more likely that outcome is..!

Any plans to get it operated on?

After all it is free

Another endorsement for the CTi 'Edge' brace.

Snapped my ACL last Jan. (dam ice!) and skied at Christmas wearing my £400 quids worth of brace.

Was recomended by my OS and I use it for dinghy sailing and skiing. My knee is quite stable (I've been working very hard) but I found the brace gave me some security and it helped when I was walloped by a out of control child sliding into me.

Kermit - do you look at kneeguru? I found it really helpful last year.

I have three .... including 'Donjoy' and 'CRtI' ( sp??) . I've had a 'few' knee ops ....

I have however found that skiing has 'strengthened' that which I have left ...... I havent used a brace for 8 weeks when skiing ... I would even suggest my knees are a touch stronger !!!!

This isn't medical advice !!! Embarassed

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Snapped my ACL about 10 years ago now playing silly bugs on the slope. Took my quacks ages to diagnose it as all the manipulation tests they do didn't show anything up, mainly because I had been skiing since I was 10 and had played rugby whilst at school & college so the muculature around the knee was well developed. Finally diagnosed it from an MRI scan after about 6 months of to-ing & fro-ing.
I was advised that reconstructive surgery was probably not the best way to go as the risks of complications are quite high (backed up by Mrs Big G who is an orthopaedic trauma nurse), so I was instructed to get down the gym and work on rebuilding all the muscles. I enquired about braces and was told that he prefer it if I didn't because my brain had to get used to firing the muscles without the strain signal from the ligament. A brace could actually make things worse as you tend to rely on the brace to take a lot of the load, and then your muscles aren't prepared to support the knee when they are needed. I found that your body is very good at giving you advanced warning of when you are pushing things a bit far and time to back it off a bit. I now ski without a brace, and as hard as I ever have with no ill effects. In a wipeout situation my muscles are already supporting my knee from the normal skiing work they are doing, so I haven't had any further complications from falls either. The only thing that I conciously avoid is the silly bug stuff (jumps onto flatish landings, fall-line mogul bashing etc), oh and the plyometric lunges my trainer tries to get me to do...unfortunately she usually wins that argument Evil or Very Mad

What I recommend is that you follow the advice of the medical professionals, they certainly got it right for me Very Happy

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Just a question for everyone still skiiing with snapped ACL's....do you still experience your knee "opening up" from time to time??

I have to say I'm quite impressed with you all still being able to ski with as serious an injury like that.

I have concerns with repeated use of supports....supports should only be used during the rehab period as constant use leads to dependancy.

For those who like keeping the area warm....why not try rubbing Deep Heat (Anti-social I know!!) or Tiger Balm to the keep the area warm...if not tubi-grip will do.

oh8777, Good luck with your operation, Follow your Doctors and Physios advice and DO AS YOU'RE TOLD!!! next year's season is do-able....just don't rush things, getting an all clear before you book a holiday would be wise.

snow reports

Never had a problem with my knee whilst skiing. The only time I notice any sort of discomfort is when I am lying on the sofa for a prolonged period of time, if my knee isn't supported on a cushion and all the muscles relax then it can sublux a little bit. At this point I tend to get a dull aching sensation, not painfull, but the sort that makes you fidgety Evil or Very Mad

. But apart from that, nothing.......quickly starts touching every bit of wood within reach Toofy Grin

Seriously though, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to ski with ACL damage. The ligaments are only there to offer support to the joint when the muscles aren't doing their job. In fact the muscles can offer way more support to the joint than ligaments ever will. Get down the gym, build the muscles, and train the brain to work the muscles without the 'stretch' signal from the ligament and you will be fine.
My consultant told me that surgery is only really required if you can't go about your everyday life without it. If you can get on with your normal life without surgery then go for that option, and then put in the hard work at the gym to get your knee ready for skiing. This is not something that can be done quickly, it takes time and hard work. Push the knee (in a controlled way-do not do plyometrics on an unstable knee) to the point of very slight discomfort and no further, if you push it too far with muscles that can't support the joint properly you will agravate all the other ligaments which will become inflamed and then you will be forced to stop exercising until it settles down and be back to square one. Over time the strength will come, it won't happen over night. Very Happy

I have just come back from skiing having used a neoprene support for the first time. I've had two arthroscopies to the right knee in the past which have been succesful but twisted my knee badly playing squash last year and I believe I will need surgery again. However, there was no way I was going to miss my trip. I was able to play without the support but the warming of the knee and possible pyscological effect using it made it worthwhile despite the slight reduction in flexion. So it has been with the skiing. I put it on after breaky and took it off after apres.
I'm not suggesting it is a substitute for surgery or good muscle tone (mine's not that bad, I do a fair amount of cycling which is good for the quads and do circuits once a week) but it gave me the confidence to ski as I normally do. Now I am back I will see the OS to see if I can get it fixed.....again!

You know it makes sense.

elj221c, Thanks for that, what were the arthroscopies for may I ask ? Im going to see the consultant again on Tuesday but just asking people about braces. Ive lost a little muscle tone, which is usually good, from two weeks immobility and wondered about a brace or such to aid the skiing. Confused

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

The first was in '87 to remove a small piece of bone which had been partly fractured a few years before in a cycling accident. I managed to complete the job whilst skiing on the Stubai glacier. I put a ski through some 'boiler plate' and twisted the knee. I carried on skiing with the knee bandaged tight with elastic bandage for the rest of the trip. The following weekend when I got home I was playing squash. Went for a drop at the front of the court bending the right knee to the max. Out popped the piece of bone which jammed the knee! Ouch! This also caused damage to the meniscus, which was tidied up at the same time.
The second was in 2001. Another meniscus tear, maybe a hangover from the previous injury. I was told to carry on as normal by the OS but I don't thing that cycling two days after the op was what he had in mind!
As I said, my current problem was caused by another squash incident. Perhaps it's time I gave up?! Had my foot 'stick' to the floor and twisted round it, the lower leg assuming a strange angle during the resulting fall, according to eye witnesses. They thought I had dislocated it. RICER seemed to do the biz at the time but 18 months later the knee is beginning to 'click' and swell up at odd times. It is also not good when using stairs, especially going down. I have been using the support for the last few weeks while playing and circuits. I bought an identical one so that I could use them alternate days. £40 the pair but worth it for me for the confidence and warmth they have offered.
Anyway, having come home I will see about another trip to the OS. Best of luck for tomorrow's consultation. Keep us posted.

A snowHead

I tore my ACL about 15 years ago. I've never had any surgery on it.

I did lots of excercises to build up the muscles in that leg but for the next few years my knee gave me some problems when skiing. Never had any problems with general piste skiing, only more agressive stuff like jumping and mogules. Also had lots of problems with off piste due to the twisting if i got into heavy crud. Used to ski very gently because was always scared I would damage it further if I fell.

After taking advice from a sports therapist about 6 years ago I bought a Donjoy Armour. Best £400 I ever spent. Doesn't restrict movement and is very supportive
I can now ski as aggressively as I want, and have tested it with many a fall, and never had any problems (where's that wood for me to touch)

My knee gives me problems quite often during the year. Simpilist things like standing up and turning/twisting at the same time gets it to dislocate. (Feels like going over your ankle, except it's the knee)

A snowHead

Gary R, Welcome to snowHead

... why haven't we seen you before ??

r u sure its a 'dislocation' Confused

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

If you dislocated it you would be on the floor screaming in pain, trust me. It sounds like your patella is just very loose to me.

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Timmaah, I'm not sure if you are medically qualified to make the assessment above, though from my experience dislocaton takes many forms. My Acromion joint has now been dislocated for 3 years. It's not too far out of line, but enough to need pushing back in place during the day. The 2 surgeons who have examined it are hopeful that it will settle without the req. for surgery. I'm not exactly screaming in pain, though it does ache quite a bit rolling eyes

For a ruptured ACL, in this household, typically the damaged knee simply switches off, leaving the owner in a heap on the floor. In a sports situation it requires rigid bracing (CTi Edge) to prevent the femur going forward of the lower leg, (as explained by the surgeon). The surgeon did demonstrate this instability by moving the upper and lower leg out of alignment to support his reccommendations.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I've thought about getting it done.
Majority of the time it doesn't seem to need it.
Skiing been fine so far, was skiing 4/5 weeks after key hole to clean it all up inc a meniscus tear.
The knee gets tweaked every so often doing Judo type stuff, been doing it over 20 years so...

Been going to the gym for quite a few years, and the consultant and the physio reccomended that rather than surgery.
So far happy to stick with that, been ok for the past4 years.

You'll need to Register first of course.

dazman, thanks!
I have only had the knee 'go' on me once when skiing, when I had a twisting fall.
The rest of the time it's absolutely fine as the knees are only really moving in one plane of movement during parallel skiing. Falling and twisting is the real danger. My OS said that, if you're a decent skier and don't do anything too silly (never been my strong point!), it should be fine to ski on. Have meantime been in the gym building up muscle to strengthen it.

The real reason I'm going for the op is that with sports like squash, tennis, etc where lots of direction changes and pivoting are involved, I'll feel the knee go within 30 minutes of play, max. It is not a pleasant experience when it does!! Plus it does niggle slightly in everyday use, and is at the back of my mind during skiing too - am worried about damaging other ligaments/meniscii if I fell badly.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

snowbunny, true, I am in no means medically qualified to make that assessment but I've dislocated my knee (patella) twice and both times have had to go to A&E.

After all it is free

Agenterre, Timmaah, Dislocation probably isn't the right word, but then i'm not a physision or physiotherapist. The best way I can describe it is it's like going over your ankle (only it's the knee that gives way) and it's not a comfortable experiance!

Anyway! The pont of my post was to Bones, or anyone else with a knee injury, particulary anyone with a torn ACL. It doesn't have to stop you enjoying your skiing. Cunsult with an expert about getting a brace, best thing I ever did. Now I can ski with a lot more confidance that it won't give way on me and cause and nasty fall and more damage to it (and the rest of me)

Gary R, That's what I meant by the term "opening up" as that's exactly what it does.....and I agree it's not the most pleasant experience you can have.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

What I need is a brain brace.
Having just been told by my surgeon that I would be silly to ski 5.5 months after ACL reconstruction, I have lost all my incentive to do the physio Sad

Help!!

Knee Braces

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