 Poster: A snowHead
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Apologies, but this is another what ski thread where someone may (or may not) take advice from a bunch of internet strangers  Your typical of the off season thread, but hey ho....
I spent 3 weeks last season on a set of Blizzard Brahmas and loved them for ripping down the piste. I categorise these as a mainly front side ski but still fun for playing at the side of pistes (70/30).
I want to start skiing more off piste, most likely lift served and have booked an off piste clinic for one of my trips this year. So, I'm looking for the elusive 1 ski quiver that can handle more than the Brahmas.
Given how much I enjoyed the Brahmas, their bigber brother the Bonafides seem like an obvious choice but I can't help noticing the love for Whitedots on this site. So that leads me to the Preachers.... Just how compromised are these on piste? I'll be spending at least one week next year exclusively piste skiing?
Also with regards to bindings, whilst currently, I only intend to access lift served off piste am I better off getting something like a Marker Tour\Baron or Tyrolia Adrenalin to future proof, should I want to start short hikes to gain access to more terrain? How much of a compromise are these as an everyday alpine binding on the off chance that I move to a quiver killered 2 ski quiver and get something more piste orientated one day?
A bit about me:
30+ weeks on the snow (level 8 )
80-85KG
180CM
Lange RX120 boot (306mm)
Cue the love for Preachers I expect, but objective advice and thoughts on the above would be appreciated
Cheers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I am also in the category of increasing going on lift served off piste. Not got touring bindings yet, but in terms of future proofing my feeling is that is a couple of seasons away and I'll probably be hankering for new skis by then
I assume you can always fit new bindings or install quiver killers to your existing skis (re-drilling or filling holes as needed)? If so, I may take that route myself...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The answer boils down to how firm is it going to be on piste when you are doing your time on piste. Most modern wider skis are surprisingly usable on piste, they aren't WC SLs but neither are they unsteerable barges. But there is no doubt that a ski over say 100mm just isn't that much fun* when the snow isn't really 3D e.g. scraped pistes, refrozen groomers, man made.
Now plenty of us do use such skis as a daily driver but largely because we are a) deluded or b) prepared to suffer the compromise for the payoff when we are on different snow.
* Well it is probably type 2 fun to be suddenly going sideways rather than the direction you intended due to lack of edge grip and quite fun to string a descent together out of a series of powerslides but it can freak people out.
I wouldn't fit a touring frame binding until you are sure you are going to be doing a fair amount of skinning. A lot of stuff can be accessed by hiking rather than skinning when getting started and arguably skins aren't really worth using for ascents of less than 15 mins.
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@RichClark, The Preacher is a superb one ski solution and are very good on piste in all but the hardest conditions. It'd also be my choice as a single ski solution over the excellent Bonafide/Cochise due to it's lighter weight.
However, you've already got the Brahmas which are a superb all mntn ski with a hard snow bias and being 88mm and stiff underfoot with two and a half metal layers they'll outperform all but the specialist piste skis on the market. So I'd definitely recommend keeping them and going for a two ski quiver. That then means you can go for a ski that's designed for softer snow, ie non metal, flat camber, rockered tips'n'tails etc. And because you've got the Brahmas you can make a big jump in width too so in the Whitedot range you should consider the Director, the R.108's and Ragnaroks, all of which have a greater soft snow bias than the Preacher. And each of these models is available in either a traditional construction or the CarbonLite version which make a big difference when skinning but aren't so light that you get duffed up on firmer stuff. And these models are still great fun on piste providing there's a bit of 'give' in the snow.
I'm 175cm/82kg & ski the 180cm Brahma & the Ragnarok CL with the same binding shared across both skis with Quiver Killers.
And you can either QK your existing alpine bindings across both skis or go straight to a small size F12 Tour EPF (the best of the framed alpine/touring bindings) & QK them to your Brahmas as well.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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What @Dave of the Marmottes and @spyderjon said.
If your piste week is at Easter when the snow will be lovely soft spring snow/corn or slush, big skis will be fine as a one ski quiver.
If you're skiing in midwinter when there's a reasonable chance of hard snow on piste, keep your Brahmas and buy a ~110mm ski with rocker for offpiste. From the Whitedot the Director is probably the best bet. You could also look at the Down Skis Countdown 110 when they go on pre-sale prices around July/August (see link below).
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@Dave of the Marmottes, @spyderjon, @Scarlet, Thanks for the responses so far.
@spyderjon, I don't actually own set of Brahamas but was able to borrow them last year from a friend as I was considering purchasing a pair. In the end as much as I loved them on piste, I couldn't help feeling that I wanted something more off piste capable so didn't buy. I agree that they would be a great addition to a 2 ski quiver.
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Makes sense @clarky999, I guess the answer is that there's no perfect 1 ski quiver, its all a compromise... shock horror and the right answer is a 2 ski quiver?? The piste week is at end the end of Jan.
Perhaps I should just go for the Bahamas as I'd originally planned, and rent skis for the off piste week... thereby justifying a 2 ski quiver to myself at a slightly later date 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I found the Preachers hard work when I had a play with them one morning at the EoSB. However I was only using them on piste, it was hard as had been bashed and frozen, I'm not as decent a level skier as you (around a 6 I think) and, despite being lardy, I don't put much power through skis. I think you could make them work as a 1 ski quiver, but I spent a lot of the morning going sideways (as Dave puts it, powersliding) and it knocked my confidence a bit so I took them back at lunch. In retrospect I should have kept them for the rest of the day, but there were still plenty of hard bits around so I jessied out.
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But two skis just doubles the transport hassle.
If you are going somewhere with a reasonable expectation of powder, you'll surely be able to hire something.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@under a new name, Is 2 sets of skis really any more hassle than a single set if quiver killing the skis (one set of bindings) and a bag capable of carrying two sets?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@RichClark, Indeed, if you're going to lug skis around, you may as well fill the bag, quiver killers or not. And yes, 4 pairs in one bag is possible...
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I love my Preachers but they have characteristics are different to many off piste skis having a significant camber that rewards lots of vertical movement: weighting/unweighting. Some of my friends who prefer a more pivoting/smearing approach haven't got on with them and prefer a rocker type ski. They do carve awesomely well on piste but they due to their width they can be very difficult and uncomfortable on very icy pistes.
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You know it makes sense.
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@RichClark, ah, sorry, I thought you already have the Brahmas.
If you like the way the Brahma skis (ie flat tail, a bit of camber, stiff underfoot & a forgiving rocker) then you'll find the Preacher very different & unless you can come to our Hemel test on the 8th Oct to try them I wouldn't recommend buying them blind.
A 98mm ski is a great skinning width but when I ski them as an all mntn ski I'm always thinking that I'd rather be on something either wider or narrower. So yes, the Bonafides are great (just a slightly bigger Brahma) but they're heavy & for me they're neither one thing or the other. My preference is always to go wider so I'm on the right ski for the softer conditions I prefer but others would go narrower for the same reason.
Check-out the Whitedot R.98's & R.108's as they have very similar characteristics as the Blizzards but without the weight of the metal lay-ups. We've got a few 13/14 & 15/16 R.108's in the traditional lay-up in 186cm going for boogerall (especially the 13/14's) which you could pair up with say a 2nd hand pair of Brahmas/Latigos or Scott Black Majics to give you a superb two ski quiver without breaking the bank.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@spyderjon, Thanks, really useful!. So if I summarise, the R.98's & R.108's share similar characteristics with the Brahma\Bonafides but come in lighter. But your preference is to go wider (i.e R.108) and keep a set of piste skis. Presumably the R.98s and Bonfides suffer in the same way both being 98 underfoot, in so much as they're neither one thing or the other?
Other than topsheets, is there any real difference between the 13/14 & 15/16 R.108s to current?
Thanks again!
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Poster: A snowHead
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FWIW I have skied the Preacher in demo at around 10cm too short for me @179 and I own the Bonafide in 187cm (having demo'd the Latigo)
Didn't like the Preacher, bit too trad, too short ,was getting some tip dive and having to work to keep them up (@110kgs 185cm in mid calf/knee deep)
Surprisingly similiar issue (lack of float) on the Bonafide but less pronounced. Still not "playful" "smeary" "slarvey" in 3d snow in the way a rockered zero camber ski is. Good/Very Good on Piste, higher speed limit than the lighter carbon all mountain skis I now like to use. But also (post lightweight skis ) very heavy, certainly in the 2013/4 model (though probably as heavy as traditional builds) and therefore more tiring as the day progresses - not a cruiser, you still need to be driving them at the end of the day. Not forgiving at all, one moment off centre and you are punished. Still use it as a hard (hasn't snowed for a week, not much thaw during the day, early mid season ) snow ski, but being replaced by the Blizzard Zero G 95 which is a really great piste ski for me, though designed and bought for traditional ski touring.
Conclusion:
If I had to own only 2 skis (' ') I would probably look at a 90mm and 105/110mmm waist ski, both with a reasonable rocker. Probably in the manufacturers you are looking at the Brahma or Latigo (or the Zero G 95) and the WD Director Carbonlite. I seem to prefer a zero camber and some rocker in the softer stuff. Probably with a Dynafit Beast or Marker Kingpin.
Let us know what you get and come back and tell us what you thought of 'em!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| RichClark wrote: |
| .......So if I summarise, the R.98's & R.108's share similar characteristics with the Brahma\Bonafides but come in lighter. But your preference is to go wider (i.e R.108) and keep a set of piste skis. Presumably the R.98s and Bonfides suffer in the same way both being 98 underfoot, in so much as they're neither one thing or the other? |
Yep, that's it. Like clarky & Dave above my preference is for the wider ski that's the best fun/performance in the conditions I want to ski in. And personally I'd still choose a ski like that as a one ski quiver even it only came in to it's own a small proportion of the time as these type of skis are pretty good in everything other than ice. And if I happened to get a week of sheet ice I'd hire pair of SL skis.
Now plenty of people would do the opposite & choose a narrower piste width ski & the purists will say you should be able to ski powder/variable snow on a full camber SL/GS ski but that's not my bag & to be honest it's past my (& most UK based recreational skiers) skill set.
| RichClark wrote: |
| Other than topsheets, is there any real difference between the 13/14 & 15/16 R.108s to current?...... |
There's quite a difference in the lay-up of the CarbonLite versions but boogerall difference in the trads.
BTW, the R.98 is a superb ski but it's primary market is as a touring ski.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Once again, Thanks @spyderjon, you make quite a compelling argument. There don't seem to be any Brahamas around, but Scott Black Majics seem to be available for some reasonable money. I haven't skied the scotts, but reviews are great in general.
I suspect that I may be in touch before long!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Blizzard sell out of the Brahmas by Christmas every year, especially the 180cm length.
The Black Majics are great but at 78mm underfoot are more piste specific than the Brahma.
At the Oct ski tests at Hemel and Mchr I'll have a 178cm Black Majic demo plus other Scotts plus all the WD skis. Hoping to have a few Blizzards as well including the Brahma & Latigo - Blizzard don't have any UK demo skis but I'm hoping to persuade them to sort a few for me and I'll know in a few weeks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'll put the October date in my calendar.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think I've had a bit of a result
My friend that I borrowed the Brahmas from last season is going to sell them (he's decided not to ski again in the 16\17 season) and has given me first refusal on them. He bought them new last year (15/16 version) and only put a long weekend on them before I skied them for 3 weeks, so essentially beyond my usage, these are spanking new. They're mounted with Griffon's.
I loved skiing on them, so its a no-brainer. He's asked me to make him an offer, I'm thinking around the £400 mark, what do you think is fair?
Looks like it will be a 2 ski quiver after all, I'll either wait until the ski test or after my off piste course before deciding on some fat skis.
Cheers
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Just my 2p but if you are skiing lift served off piste as a "tourist" in weekly chunks then I'd being going for the one ski fits all. You are going to be out whatever the conditions. It's perfectly possible you'll take out your powder ski's and leave them in the locker all week. You are more looking to skiing cut up powder, crust, half slush and be pisting your way around the circuit, rather really utilising a proper off pist ski.
And on the practical side. Sure you can get two sets in a bag but you still have to lug them around store them and perhaps more importantly service them.
That is just my 2p.
I ski Cham 98's at the moment and ski two weeks a year - piste and lift served off piste. Done a bit of guided off piste and touring in years before starting a family a decade or so ago. As mentioned elsewhere the wider ski's these days are much better all rounders than they were 10 years ago.
The new Cham 2.0 skis seem to be well liked.
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@RichClark, that's definately a result.
In the generally tough second hand ski market then you could haggle down a bit but considering it's effectively only you that's skied 'em from new, that you know their service history (ie no base grinds?), it's a good quality binding, the binding won't need redrilling, that he's your mate & assuming you didn't pay him a rental fee for using 'em for 3 weeks then £400 is fair to him (he'll have no ebay fees etc) and a good price for you versus new etc.
I'd snap 'em up today as a birthday present for yourself.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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