 Poster: A snowHead
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Shameful secret, but am I alone in not particularly enjoying fresh snow. A little dusting of icing sugar on top of a nice piste is fine, but otherwise I'd rather wait until some nice man in his Pistenbully has come along and bashed it a bit, then maybe give it 24 hours to pack down, another bit of pisteing and IMO it's just perfect.
I'm sure skiing deep, fresh powder is wonderful IF you can do it, but it doesn't seem to flatter my skiing. It's hard work and I find myself 'getting down the mountain' rather than skiing it.
Am I alone?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Time to get a snowboard.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yes
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Try a pair of wider skis - all mountain. Between 85 and 90mm underfoot should do it. Makes a huge difference.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Burn the heretic
Or just get better.
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@foxtrotzulu,
Rather depends on what you mean by "deep fresh powder". I am reasonably sure (from observation) that many/most posters on here don't actually know what powder is.
If you can make snowballs, it's not powder.
If you can make snowballs, it's likely as not, not that great off piste. Which is why powder is rare and to be treasured.
Other than spring snow, which caught at just the right moment, can be nicer than powder.
Maybe you're just not trying the good stuff?
Find a better dealer!
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@foxtrotzulu, I totally agree with you. A few cms of fresh snow on a bashed piste is ideal conditions for me. Any more than that, and the piste soon develops bumps which I do not like at all.
In the SkiWelt in March this year, it snowed overnight and continued snowing all day, with the delightful result that the pistes had up to 15 cms laid on top. Because of the cloud and poor visibility there were very few people out, resulting in these conditions lasting all day, and the fresh snow was bashed overnight for another great day!
@Masque, @Dave of the Marmottes, skiing is meant to be fun, so if @foxtrotzulu and I like to ski in different conditions to you, then there is room on the mountain for everybody. You should be glad we are not spoiling your precious powder and fresh tracks!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@foxtrotzulu, learn how to ski it. We had a fair bit of fresh snow on the last trip and I had booked myself onto an off-piste clinic. I found it really hard work for the first couple of days, but about halfway through the second lesson, it started to click and everything got easier and more fun.
Oh and fatter skis do make things easier, but if your technique is good then you can get away with narrower ones.
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Thanks for the responses. I suspect it is partly 'the wrong type of snow' and largely lack of technique. Add in a slight lack of fitness and that is probably the perfect storm for fresh snow conditions!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
If you can make snowballs, it's not powder.
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This. I get bored with people ranting on about "powder" (or even worse, "pow"  ) when there's 15" of freshly fallen, leg-breaking, clag.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@foxtrotzulu, +1 ...................But don't tell anyone 
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Unpisted snow comes in all sorts of forms, from cold, white smoke to cement-like elephant snot. Accordingly the ease of skiing, and enjoyment, varies significantly, and as with all conditions which get more complicated than firm, smooth pistes begins to show up weaknesses in technique. Perhaps it's better to say that you don't like fresh snow yet?
Next time you're in resort and it snows why not rent a pair of fatter skis (95mm under foot 'ish) and try a little bit to the side? Not too steep (decent blue perhaps), and as early in the day as you can so it is untracked. Then make some gentle turns, bearing in mind that you'll have to take a more direct line than usual as the deep snow acts like a brake, slowing you down. Better still, book a lesson to go with the fat skis and ask for an off-piste intro. You'll soon say you're learning to love fresh snow...
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You know it makes sense.
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@nigelg, ...
quote
@foxtrotzulu, I totally agree with you. A few cms of fresh snow on a bashed piste is ideal conditions for me. Any more than that, and the piste soon develops bumps which I do not like at all.
Bumps! Oh no!
Right now in the summer, opposite us are some VERY untidy slopes, all covered with rocks and boulders, and the bumps go up to 4000m.
The bloody mountains really get in the way of the view!!! 
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sat 21-05-16 14:36; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
Shameful secret, but am I alone in not particularly enjoying fresh snow. A little dusting of icing sugar on top of a nice piste is fine, but otherwise I'd rather wait until some nice man in his Pistenbully has come along and bashed it a bit, then maybe give it 24 hours to pack down, another bit of pisteing and IMO it's just perfect.
I'm sure skiing deep, fresh powder is wonderful IF you can do it, but it doesn't seem to flatter my skiing. It's hard work and I find myself 'getting down the mountain' rather than skiing it.
Am I alone? |
You are offpisting in the wrong place.
Alps powder is gash.
Shallow and wet.
Go to Utah, eastern Russia or northern Japan.
Deep and dry.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I keep trying to preach to my one-week-a-year friends how great powder is, but they just don't get it because powder is so rare in the Alps and anytime they have skied fresh snow off piste it's been of the sticky/heavy variety and they've found it really hard work, never to attempt again.
I'm pretty sure that anyone who has a reasonable skiing technique who tries skiing proper powder will never look back.
It's just so effortless and forgiving, you almost feel like you're floating down the mountain on clouds.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@under a new name, @pam w, Thanks! I thought I was the lone voice on this - whenever I express this opinion I seem to get shouted down - notably by more junior ski instructors or those that shamelessly call all new snow powder to attract custom. Generally, they back down when you start the discussion about their off piste instruction and their demonstration of their lack of mountaincraft knowledge as demonstrated by them calling leg breaking porridge as powder.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You can ski leg breaking stuff you just need to ski it carefully.
Ironically I did break my leg in true powder conditions because it was so light I blew through to the icy bumps below. A bit of moisture in the fresh isn't always a bad thing.
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I have skied proper powder on a sensible gradient, including once in a lesson with an instructor laying down a sensible track which I could "echo" alongside his. Bliss. But me dodgy knee and advancing years means my priority is to remain injury free. Heavy snow rapidly makes the knee ache and swell. After some days off piste (definitely not powder) and visit to LA Grave my knee was like a pumpkin. Doc drew off fluid and gave me a steroid injection. I am keen to ski for some years yet so have decided to stick to decent piste conditions. In the same way I use walking poles for steep descents and no longer do long overnight channel crossings in small boats. I have no difficulty with being called a wimp or a heretic.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I am keen to ski for some years yet so have decided to stick to decent piste conditions. |
Seems like a sensible plan, and it's not as if skiing on piste is unfun.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| I am keen to ski for some years yet so have decided to stick to decent piste conditions. |
Seems like a sensible plan, and it's not as if skiing on piste is unfun. |
Indeed.
My definition of real powder is "snow light, soft and deep enough that you can't possibly hurt yourself in it".
Or, in other words, "elevator snow".
A phrase I coined on A trip when the guide said, "that way's a 10m cliff but not totally vertical, and the snow's good enough it's probably a fun ride" - callow, youthful idiot I was.... And it was like being wafted down by snowy angels... A delight.
Rarely repeated.
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At the end of the day, we all strap planks to our legs and slide down a gradient. Do whatever makes you happy.
The male of the species will always let a bit testosterone charged and let bravado come in to it and rant on about powder, places, gradients and kit but they grow out if it in time. Just understand that, to the average male between 16-40, admitting you don't like 20 feet of powder on a 90% gradient is a bit like saying you visit the Small pint Support Group. Just learn to ignore them and ski where you like, when you like without feelin inadequate.
I heard a Wham song on the radio the other day -and quite liked it.
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I agree, fresh race track piste is great.
Powder fans are like real ale drinkers, Keep telling you how good it was and that time in Japan when it was 9 foot deep....
And then; wrong sort, too wet, to windy, bad visabilty.
And the rest of the time moaning it's icy, cloudy etc.
Of course it's cool to do powder, and people like Rob can, but it seems to be harder than most people's ability.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@foxtrotzulu,
If you can make snowballs, it's not powder.
Find a better dealer! |
I think that might be correct but for the wrong reasons. The ability to make snowballs is entirely down to the temperature of the snow. If it is too cold then the heat from the pressure of squeezing a pile of it wont allow it to melt slightly and then re-freeze into a snowball once the pressure if released.
I think snowball / powder is a correlation rather then a causation. I would think it perfectly possible for fully frozen snow crystals to fall over a cold night and be good powder and remain powder if it warmed up just sufficiently to make snowballs.
Probably more accurate to say that good powder conditions usually create poor snowball making conditions.
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Just remember:
Stanton, Whitegold and Gerry are powder people.
Pick your friends wisely.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| I heard a Wham song on the radio the other day -and quite liked it. |
Saw Wham live once.
[/off-topic]
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@emwmarine, I think you are right and also that you are agreeing with me...
Excellent powder is cold snow. So a lack of snowballs correlates with good powder. If it warms up, then it's no longer great powder.
This cpuld get quite complicated 
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| Norrin Radd wrote: |
Just remember:
Stanton, Whitegold and Gerry are powder people.
Pick your friends wisely. |
'no friends on a powder day' 
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You know it makes sense.
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I think I've only ever skied in genuine powder once. It was mid March 2009 in St Gervais. We looked out of the window and weren't even going to go up but oh my goodness I am so glad we did. Mountain virtually to ourselves and the most incredible light loveliness. It was like dancing on clouds - I don't think I've ever smiled so much.
Other than that and even more so since having become a 9- 5 office potato and putting on far too much weight, I am sadly very much with @foxtrotzulu Give me the ironing board flat slopes of Gressoney and the like any day and leave the bumps to the youngsters.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If you want to enjoy it, have lessons in it.
If you don't it's not a problem.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| under a new name wrote: |
| ... Rather depends on what you mean by "deep fresh powder". I am reasonably sure (from observation) that many/most posters on here don't actually know what powder is. ... |
Certainly some discussions I've had on the 'net with people about deep powder snowboarding indicate that. It's fascinating why people answer questions about things which they apparently have no experience of. I'm not talking about this place or anyone here, just an observation.
I do know people who learned in powder and are expert there, but mediocre on piste. I conclude that it's not harder to ride powder, just a bit different. Practice is all it takes. But that can be quite hard to get most places.
You could look at it as a route to improving basic technique, and possibly a gateway to something which some people seem to quite like.
I'd say that the majority of people at resorts don't like/ can't ride powder. This is a good thing for those who do.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Horses for courses, just enjoy the ride. Not much in this world beats skiing with a smile on your face.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The thing about fresh snow is that it comes in so many forms: deep, fresh, light, fluffy pow; a delicious thin layer of icing sugar across a bashed slope; endless piled-up second-hand pow like you find in American bowls; a deceitful layer of drifted snow disguising icy moguls underneath; heavy late season clag...I could go on for ever.
Each kind has its own technique. We Brits may only see some of the rarer kinds of fresh snow once or twice in a lifetime. You have to learn fast and you need a workshop full of tools and techniques to keep smiling.
But variety is what makes life fun. Bring on the fresh, I say - even the (relatively) horrible stuff!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've heard another test for powder other than the snowball one:
Slide your hand into the snowpack towards the bottom of the freshly fallen layer of snow, palm facing upwards and lift up the snow. It should easily fall away to leave a cone shape of powder on your hand.
Often you'll lift up some kind of column or soft slab of snow which would indicate something more dense than powder.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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piste, bump, powder, porridge, wet concrete...
Pistes are very similar. So most people got the most practice on it. Most people got reasonably competent on it.
Bumps are also similar, differ only by size. It's often available but not everywhere. If one wishes to practice bump skiing, they should have little trouble to find opportunity. But skiing bumps requires proper foundation and technique. Most one week a year skiers don't have the foundation, never mind the technique that build on top of it. As a result, they tend to shy away from bumps.
Powder comes infrequently. So most people don't get much practice on it. Even fewer has the proper foundation to adapt to ski it well on the rare chance they get to practice. Wide skis helps but only partly.
Porridge and wet concrete takes strong legs and excellent technique, AND WIDE SKIS. Most people don't have any ONE of them, never mind all of the above.
BTW, on piste, we're skiing ON top of the snow. In any sort of fresh snow, the skis sink IN the snow. 1/2 of the technique used for skiing ON snow don't work well when the skis are IN the snow. Hence the difficulty.
Wide, wide skis helps to stay ON top of the (heavier form of) snow, making it possible to ski it as though one is skiing on piste. But the truth is, if it's really light dry powder, it would take VERY WIDE skis to stay ON top.
When people say they don't know how to ski "fresh powder", those are the causes.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@abc, the only skis you need are either 65mm FIS slaloms or 200+SGs. If you are finding the slope an issue on either, it's not the skis that are the problem...
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| under a new name wrote: |
@emwmarine, I think you are right and also that you are agreeing with me...
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I tried my best not to... 
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@emwmarine, it's Ok, I knew that 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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For snowboards at least, you're riding in powder not on it. Surface area is important, but more to control how the board planes. Look at a video of someone riding powder and you will not see the board all that much. Think of those great powder photographs where you can only see the skier's head.
I don't think there's a difference in basic technique, because I've often watched people with excellent on-piste technique transition easily to deep powder, even when they have never ridden it before. On the other hand people who struggle often have obvious technique issues which you can see in their first turn. I think powder just exposes those basic technique weaknesses. For example many (self-taught?) Brit snowboarders can only side-slip and torque their board around to turn it - that gets them to the park, but it won't get them down a powder run, for which you need to control your edges.
... the only skis you need are either 65mm FIS slaloms or 200+SGs. If you are finding the slope an issue on either, it's not the skis that are the problem...
Sarcasm? I've ridden with plenty of FIS racers, all of whom are uniformly good but none of whom brought the wrong tools for the job.
These days people are more likely to try to ruin a good day's riding by turning up with park gear.
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@philwig, irony
But seriously, a good skier can ski anything on anything...
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